Topic: How to get a extra10hp

[Graywolf]

According to Gm build book , the 2 balance shafts in your ecotec engine use up 10 hp to operate. Replacing these with neutral balance shafts which uses zero hp will then give you this hp at the rear wheels.  Balance shafts decrease engine vibrations, But, having your car vibrate more might be a good thing if your out on a date or with your wife. It might be a good excuse to go out for a ride to get a back massage.  Either way you can order them from your local GM dealership. They are in the GM performance catalog. I paid a discounted price of $462 for the set .  I do not know how much it costs to have them installed.  Remember the acclerator will controls the vibration speed and you will hear -Faster,Faster, Faster well you know what I mean.  Gray Wolf

[TomatoSoup]

Wow!  It takes 10 horses to spin two small metal rods?  Amazing.

[Graywolf]

The balalance shafts are rather big and yes it is amazing they use up that much power

[SeLFMaDE]

I never knew such a thing existed. So I read up a bit at wikipedia.

"The basic concept has a pair of balance shafts rotating in opposite directions at twice the engine speed."

Yikes! Very interesting though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft

[Gunnys GXP]

Wow!  It takes 10 horses to spin two small metal rods?  Amazing.

Well yeah....Horses don't have hands.   

[kennysabarese]

That's a lot of money for 10 horsepower

[smokescreen]

   A K&N air filter will give you the same increase.

[Critterman]

A K&N filter will never get you 10 hp on these engines, at best you might see 1% which would be 2.6, but I wouldn't hold my breath to see that.

[davytudope]

at best you might see 10% which would be 2.6, but I wouldn't hold my breath to see that.

thats 1%

[Gentleman Jack]

Critter,
Davytodope is right.  Your math is off by a fraction.  Besides, we all know the best and cheapest way to increase HP is by using:

Sol Asylum's exhaust line cleaning service

For 49.99 we will guarantee an increase of up to 20 HP!  Your engine will run louder, your car will be faster and you will save gas!  This is the latest in modern technology designed to combat the negative effects of the newest government mandated gasoline additives.  Our service can be done anywhere at any time.  This is a great service to have performed a day or two before you plan to street race, drag race or just for your daily driver!
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME
Our pattent pending "exhaust clog hog overbore" or E.C.H.O system is designed to be safe for the environment while still achieving virtually new exhaust pipe inner diameter!  By removing all of the built up carbon and soot from inside your exhaust system,  you allow all of that air to escape your engine at a greatly increased speed!  Meaning you will go FASTER!  GARAUNTEED!
Our pattented system is designed for exhaust systems from 3/4 inch (Honda) thru 5 inch (Cummings) and can be used on both factory and after market systems with or without mufflers of catalytic converters.

If you are interested, please email or call :
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GJ

oops, I think I just used the same joke to hijack ANOTHER thread.  I will yell at myself.  Sorry to the OP.  The twin balance shafts are something I had to read up on to understand.  This was actually a worthwile thread before I came along and ruined it. 

GJ

[Critterman]

thats 1%

Corrected my post, thing is while they do breath better, they just do not increase the HP in these cars, I have a 2.4 and dyno'd my car with everychange I made to it, I have probably 10-15 seperate runs on my car at 60 bucks a pop and these cars breath well stock. 
for the record I was at 143.6 at the wheels stock, went to 144.3 with the Cold air. added a magnaflow and went to 145.8, and finally a vector tune where I dyno'd at 144.7, but dropped .8 seconds in a quarter mile.

[kennysabarese]

Corrected my post, thing is while they do breath better, they just do not increase the HP in these cars, I have a 2.4 and dyno'd my car with everychange I made to it, I have probably 10-15 seperate runs on my car at 60 bucks a pop and these cars breath well stock. 
for the record I was at 143.6 at the wheels stock, went to 144.3 with the Cold air. added a magnaflow and went to 145.8, and finally a vector tune where I dyno'd at 144.7, but dropped .8 seconds in a quarter mile.

This is why I bought shocks and springs and wheels and tires instead of CAI, intake pipes and exhaust

Though I will probably do an exhaust cutout, it's more so I can ear the engine on the track

[davytudope]

thats the only reason i did an exhaust and intake, so it will sound like a sports car.

[wspohn]

thats the only reason i did an exhaust and intake, so it will sound like a sports car.

What - sports cars suck?

I have never heard anything like the noise a CAI makes on any other sports cars.  IMHO that NOISE sucks!

[davytudope]

performance cars need to make noise.  i got the cai to hear the cbv.  i like the sound. 
with the cai and magnaflow exhaust my car is still quieter than all my friends cars.  but i like it this way.

[wspohn]

performance cars need to make noise.  i got the cai to hear the cbv.  i like the sound.

I had a friend a long time ago that got in trouble with his parents, who had bought him a car to drive to university, when they found him under it with a drill, making holes in the muffler so it would sound louder.

He was never happier than the day he managed to rip the whole back half of the system off on a manhole cover, grinning from ear to ear.

I guess I must have had a period where I was sort of like that, and I still enjoy a nice mellow exhaust note, but I also find anything repetitive and at all intrusive to be simply annoying.

I am pretty much happy about my Solstice exhaust (a modified Solo rig) but sure wouldn't want anything too much louder.

Funny thing is that when I fired the coupe up the other day in a parking lot, it set of a car alarm a couple of cars over. I only have one other car that does/did that (I recently fitted some tip resonators to take out some of the rasp and don't know if it is still an alarm trigger).

I guess if the sucking sounds pall after awhile, you can always refit the stock CAI.

[Graywolf]

You guys are missing the point. Adding neutral balance shafts is one way to get 10 more hp .   Everyone should all ready have aftermarket exhaust.k and N filter, and a tune. Getting more hp is expensive Gray Wolf

[davytudope]

high flow cat?

[Kuprito]

Any feedback?

[gmtech16450yz]

Any feedback?

Neutral balance shafts are an ABSOLUTE MUST if you're into the motor or plan on doing anything that will raise your rev limiter (valve springs, etc). They do add a little vibration, mostly around 2k rpm under slight load, but certainly not a huge difference and some might not even notice it. Idle will not feel any different. It's not so much about the hp, it's the idea of swinging those weights at 15k rpm that's not a good idea. Getting the balance shafts out will let the motor rev out quite a bit quicker at high rpm's. These motors can keep building power to 7500-8000 with the right tweaks.

[kennysabarese]

unless you are using a significantly larger turbo that keeps the torque/hp into the high revs i don't think this mod is worth it. a turbo like this would lag a lot so i only think it's useful for racecars.

if you are opening the engine and going for big power, then sure go for it while you have the thing open.

1,400hp ecotec has to rev to 10k to make that power, so they have a pretty huge turbo

[gmtech16450yz]

On a little bit of a side note,
I think it's interesting when people think about big, high rpm horsepower on these motors the first thing they want to do is put a bigger turbo on it. So far I've seen lots of money spent (upwards of $3-$4k) and the rewards are no low end, big turbo lag and peaky top end. On top of that, most of these big turbos are being put on stock motors, so you're adding a turbo that's only good for high rpm but not fixing the problems with the basic motor that limit high rpm power and efficiency. For the money guys are spending on big turbos, you can put forged pistons in (so you don't actually break things when you make this big hp) Port the head (huge help on making high end power) replace the weak valve springs (absolutely necessary over 6k with high boost) and put in neutral balance shafts (more top end rev out). All the sudden you have a motor that still has a ton of low end and will make power to 7500 easily ON THE STOCK TURBO. (Assuming you've already done intake, intercooler, exhaust and meth or E85 mods which anyone that's spending $3k on a turbo should have already done.)  NOW add a big turbo and you can actually use that added boost and airflow.

Want 10 extra hp? Tune for a mix of E85 and you'll have more added hp than that, and a cooler, more efficient running motor, FOR FREE.

[Kelu]

Tuned engine on stock turbo safely at 7500rpm means same power as a stock engine. Now need to build the engine for high rpms if you don't upgrade the stock turbo, we have a real world case around here, basically the power at 7500 is far lower than 3000-6000rpm where our turbo is efficient.

One of the Fuel System GM engineer who worked on LNF advised not to use E85 on the stock fuel system, probably the injectors will go south, I would like to see a long reliability test on this but nobody have done it yet.

[snaponbob]

Having read claims about mixing E85, I have yet to see FACTS about how the car is being tuned, and what REALLY is on the engine. Given the need for much higher rates of fuel delivery with meaningful amounts of E85, how much E85 CAN be mixed and still not see damage the engine. After all, once the injectors are delivering 100%, the pulse length is maxxed out, and there is no knock, just how much power can a stock turbo'ed LNF actually be coaxed to produce? And I am not talking about b.s. dyno racing on Cobalt forums.

p.s. Just saw this on ZZPerformance web site.

E85 will make more power, but it is usually harder to find.  E85 also requires a custom pcm file.  You cannot switch back and forth, the mix in the tank will never be able to settle and you could hurt your engine.  I would run the tank as empty as you can before you change fuels.  Remember that you will never get every drip out of the tank so your fuel trims will be all over until you find and run consistant e85.  E85 also seems to change from tank to tank and season to season, so I would always have something to scan and keep an eye on the tune.  And Aeroforce gauge could be your best friend.

E85 also takes a massive fuel system, it will demand a big fuel system for example: large fuel injectors, big fuel pump, fuel pump rewire kit, and even possibly raised voltage.

But when the rules are followed E85 does make a lot more power and makes your car smell like popcorn….. lol.

[kennysabarese]

There is another thread about E85 guys. Please use it

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,5290.0.html