Topic: Any intake turned into CAI? possible solution

[Arabas]

Last night i was out with my GT friends.
a new guy joined us. he owns an Opel dealership and a tuning dpt.
for the moment he has CAI, IC, dpipe, exhaust and a GT3076R Turbocharger, saying he makes 445 hp.

anyway, that s another thread.

what he has done on his GT and i discussed with him about it is a mod for the CAI
in order to fit his custom made IC, he removed the black panel below the intake that "traps" the air for the radiant cooler.
this way, the air that comes through the IC goes to both the radiator and the intake.
he said there is no use for the black panel to be there.

so the intake bacomes a CAI, you don t have to drill anything, just remove the panel (reversible mod) and you are able to see the IC from inside the engine bay (inside side and pipes)

what do you gearheads think about it? asking coz i m not a tech kind of guy.
is there any drawback to that?

[2kwk4u]

Hmmmm.  Seems to me there's gotta be a reason it's there, otherwise GM would have left it out from the factory.  My guess is that it directs more air through the radiator for better cooling.  Does he still have his stock radiator?  Best advice I can give is try it out and monitor your coolant temps before and after to see what difference it makes.  Best to do this now while the summer temperatures are still high.  I imagine you see temps upwards of 35 C in your part of the world, no?

[Arabas]

i agree with you. there has to be a reason for it to be there, but on the other hand we ve seen quite a lot of cars doing great without it too...
you re right, it s about 35-40 this time of year here, only at nights it drops at 27-30 C.
i want to collect some opinions first and then i can try it out and monitor my coolant temps.
Thx 2kwk4u

[Dave@DDMworks]

The plastic shrouding is there to serve an important purpose actually. Air does not want to go through an intercooler or radiator if there is an easier path to take. Simply put, there has to be a build up pressure in front of the object while also having a lower pressure behind the object in order for the air to flow through the object. The shrouding keeps the air coming from the front of the car and from under the car managed and causes higher pressure to build in front of the IC and radiator then if that shrouding is not there. This pressure delta between the front and back of the IC or radiator is what helps to determine the airflow through the object. Without the shrouding there, it is much easier for the air to hit the IC or radiator face and roll over or around it into the engine bay without going through either one, which will decrease the efficiency of your IC and your Radiator. There will still be some air that will go through the IC and radiator, however that amount will be substantially reduced. Air management is very important to the overall efficiency of the IC and radiator and the reason that we add a lot of shrouding to our supercharger intercoolers to helps manage the air and keep things efficient. Without the shrouding on short bursts it is likely you will not see too much trouble, but try doing some longer runs in 4th gear and watch the coolant temps and IAT's post intercooler.

Hope that helps.
Dave

[Arabas]

Dave, this is some very usefull info!
thx for giving us your knowledge!
i understand that air kinda behaves like water: it follows the "easiest" path, so with this shrouding, we create the aerodynamics we want, in order to make the air come thorugh the IC.

OK guys, since i tottaly trust Dave, i consider this mod, as a Myth busted.
no CAI this way!

thx Dave!

[kennysabarese]

After the air has gone through the radiator and intercooler, it's going to be warmer than ambient. so I wouldn't want that going into my engine.

[tazz]

I think that would be the least of the worries.  
As mentioned above the air simply would not flow very well through the IC or Radiator so the air going into the engine bay would not necessarily be that much warmer.  The thing to be worried about is that the efficiency will be greatly decreased on the IC.  In addition when at stop the air inside your engine bay raises fast even with the shroud in place. I've seen the temps raise quick since I now have the GMPP intake 90* ambient temps 40* in about a minute since there is no air flow into the engine bay when stopped unless the fan is on.

[Gentleman Jack]

fan can be set to always on or set to come on at a lower temp if this last part is an issue.  If not, please disreguard.

GJ

[tazz]

Lyndon might be able to do this HPT can't.  In reality HPT support for the LNF as far as tables go is subpar since the ECM is such a cluster F*&% and very few people want to mess with it.  Lyndon & Vince are about the only ones that are talented enough to give the LNF a good going through.  Bill over at HPT is a great guy but even he has said the LNF ECM is a cluster F*%$ and with the tables available get us in a good range power wise.  Really if one were to want more from HPT then they would need to be upgrading the internals as well as going with a different turbo so at this point HPT does a decent job as far as the programming is concerned.  Could it be better Yes but that's what Lyndon and Vince are for.
BTW
Did you ever figure out what was wrong?

[Critterman]

I can adjust the fan temps in my LE5 with HPT.  It is simple.

[tazz]

Not in the LNF for the Solsotcie GXP at least not the version I have.
The tables for the LNF are really lacking but "it is what it is" and I would suppose Lyndon can do it so if need be I can always ask him to do it and send me the file so i could upload it. 

[Arabas]

Westers can surely adjust the fan temps.
Vince too. a friend with Trifecta has set them to work on much lower temps

[kennysabarese]

Maybe turning on the fan sooner will keep my coolant temps from getting so high on the track?

[Gentleman Jack]

I have my fan set to come on early and stay on a bit longer in an attempt to keep temps down some.  I am not possitive of all the settings, but they have been adjusted (by Lyndon) different from stock.

GJ

[MEGAS]

a nice trick ,that i've done in my supercharged miata,is to make both fans,radiator's and a/c to work together at the same time..!

just my 100 euros.

[kennysabarese]

can you explain in more detail?

[Dave@DDMworks]

a nice trick ,that i've done in my supercharged miata,is to make both fans,radiator's and a/c to work together at the same time..!

just my 100 euros.

Kenny,

On a Miata there are 2 different fans, one that is used for cooling of the radiator while at low speeds and idling and there is a second fan that only comes on when the A/C button is pushed to help draw more air through the A/C condenser. These fans can be tied together to both come on at the same time in that car. On the Solstice there is obviously only one fan, but the parameters for when it kicks on can be changed in the programming so that the fan comes on at a lower temperature.

Hope that helps,
Dave

[kennysabarese]

Cool I have been debating the larger radiator for a while. At Watkins Glen my temps were getting up into to 230, but then as i got faster they stayed lower and rarely over 220.

Seems like I have some options.

1) Turn the fan on all the time while on the track, but maybe the fan doesn't make a difference when moving at speed.

2) add more coolant by installing an additional reservoir. This would just increase the amount of fluid that is dissipating heat. Would probably be pretty cheap, but not sure how effective.

3) larger radiator... this is expensive and requires hacking the car up.

i guess this isn't the right thread to debate about this... maybe time for something new. or keep it going on gray's

[Uranium-238]

Something else that kinda goes without saying, but running in clean air makes a HUGE difference in water temps.

[Gentleman Jack]

Something else that kinda goes without saying, but running in clean air makes a HUGE difference in water temps.

Clean air like in Canada?  Or clean air as in not behind another cars turbulence?

[Sol Asylum]

I thought that California had all the clean air that's why we have all that environmental crap on our cars, so that we don't pollute Cali's air.

[old goat]

You could put an electric fan on the front of the intercooler on a manual switch, cheap solution, pretty common on race cars, you actually need it the most at slow speeds or idle, that's when the heat builds up.

[Uranium-238]

The latter.

[kennysabarese]

hrm... good point. i was in a lot of traffic the first day at the track. once i got faster and was passing more i had more clean air. i need to go faster to keep it cool!

i'm always moving... i just ordered an IC. i wonder if it'll help with my engine coolant temp

[old goat]

IC has no effect of any consequence on engine temps, for about $100 you could put an electric PUSH fan on the IC might help cool the radiator too as it would also force air through the radiator, cooler IC temps are very beneficial. I have seen a race Solstice with 3 push fans on the intercooler.

(push fan goes on the front, pull fan goes on the back, we have a pull fan stock)
http://www.sportcompactonly.com/manuals/Brand/Flex-a-Lite/330-98330.pdf