Topic: My FIRST dyno, ever! [WESTERS / RESULTS]

[Excelsior]

4 pulls
Mustang Dynamometer
Morrisville College
9/25/2010

2008 Solstice GXP
Westers Race Tune
Solo-Performance Mach Shorty Exhaust
Dejon Power BOV Spring
Dejon Power Cold Air Intake

4:13:21pm
Maximum Power 225.2 @ 4865 RPM / 98.7 MPH
with WCF 225.2
Maximum Torque 291.6 @ 3211 RPM / 66.7 MPH
with WCF 291.6

4:17:20pm
Maximum Power 226.3 @ 4843 RPM / 98.5 MPH
with WCF 226.3
Maximum Torque 318.8 @ 3081 RPM / 63.1 MPH
with WCF 318.8

4:20:19pm
Maximum Power 224.9 @ 5054 RPM / 103 MPH
with WCF 224.9
Maximum Torque 337.2 @ 3114 RPM / 64.3 MPH
with WCF 337.2

I was in 4th gear as instructed and they eased me up to 50 and then I had to stomp on it.  There is no 4th result because they gave me a double of the middle run.  But the last run, they had me go to 125 MPH and it pretty much stopped at 123 MPH with a full 22 PSI from the time I stomped on it until the end.

The person there says something does not seem right on the car since he knows STOCK is 260 HP.  Maybe someone here can tell me better. 

Now I think I should bring this over to an actual place and run a full diagnostics on it with some dyno runs.  ANyone know of any in NY State area?

[spartan]

Hey there.

    Torque was good on the last two runs.  Can't understand that HP rating.

[SKY888]

how far are you from Honeoye, NY?

BTF can take care of you.  He also have a dyno....

[LatinVenom]

Is a Mustang Dyno, however the reading should be at about 245RWHP = 294 BHP than the 226RWHP = 271 BHP.
THere is something not quite right here with the RWHP numbers.

[Excelsior]

I believe I found a local guy right here that is super efficient in dyno and readings.  I will call him Monday morning and set something up for an actual full reading.

[1LILNDN]

Excelsior ;  If the sensors are 2 bar they can only put out between 14.3 and 18 lb of boost Max . The 3 bar sensors will put out 28.6 lb. boost. the dealer said I was putting out 41 lb            this means I would have to have 4 bar Sensors I don,t have 4s with a GMPP Tune .Only about 18to 20 and not Steady

[Excelsior]

Then would the DIC computer be wrong? 

[tazz]

Excelsior ;  If the sensors are 2 bar they can only put out between 14.3 and 18 lb of boost Max . The 3 bar sensors will put out 28.6 lb. boost. the dealer said I was putting out 41 lb            this means I would have to have 4 bar Sensors I don,t have 4s with a GMPP Tune .Only about 18to 20 and not Steady

They might have actually been semi right.  One of the sensors actually measures the atmosperic pressure in psi which when it reaches 14.7 the DIC will read 1psi of boost. So if you had seen about 26PSI spike or otherwise of boost add 15 psi on top of that you would be at 41psi.  I was playing around the other night with Ultra Gauge and the sensor I displayed was showing a positive pressure at idle and noticed when the diplay reached around 15psi the dic would read 1 and when it dispalyed around 17psi the DIC would read 2psi and so on.

[old goat]

Is the car an auto?

[DeepBlueGXP]

That's what I was going to ask.  Has to be an auto

[redcomet303]

I took a look at the dynos on wester's garage and a stock tune gxp with intake and exhaust only put down 200ish to the wheels. means we have about a 30% loss from the drivetrain. so at 225rwhp you are at about 290hp at the crank. at 337 torque you are making 440 at the crank.


4:13:21pm
Maximum Power 225.2 @ 4865 RPM / 98.7 MPH x 30% = 292HP @ crank
with WCF 225.2
Maximum Torque 291.6 @ 3211 RPM / 66.7 MPH x 30% = 379 @ crank
with WCF 291.6

4:17:20pm
Maximum Power 226.3 @ 4843 RPM / 98.5 MPH x 30% = 293 @ crank
with WCF 226.3
Maximum Torque 318.8 @ 3081 RPM / 63.1 MPH x 30% = 414 @ crank
with WCF 318.8

4:20:19pm
Maximum Power 224.9 @ 5054 RPM / 103 MPH x 30% = 292 @ crank
with WCF 224.9
Maximum Torque 337.2 @ 3114 RPM / 64.3 MPH x 30& = 438 @ crank
with WCF 337.2

And if you look at Wester's Dyno Runs you are almost right in line with his HP and Torque numbers. I believe it is the way he tunes the Kappa platform

If you look at the cobalts though the strive for more HP at the cost of some torque

[snaponbob]

The assumption that dyno results are dead accurate ("truthful"). They are not. Different dyno manufacturers generate different numbers. Realistically, the drive line losses on the Kappa platform is more along the lines of 15-18%. Lyndon will freely explain that his dyno reads VERY conservatively.

[Kelu]

I took a look at the dynos on wester's garage and a stock tune gxp with intake and exhaust only put down 200ish to the wheels. means we have about a 30% loss from the drivetrain. so at 225rwhp you are at about 290hp at the crank. at 337 torque you are making 440 at the crank.

200whp means 23% drivetrain loss out of 260hp, and not 30% what math are you doing?
With a perfect 260hp runing engine, a dyno should read 210-215 whp to reflect the 18% most agreed drivetrain loss.

Until someone will do an engine dyno, all inertial dynos should be used as reference point between others (stock runs) and not as absolute values.

[Critterman]

100-23 =77
260 x .77=200.2

That is probably the math he used.  

[redcomet303]

Yeah used the wrong math I took 260crank hp Divided by 200 crank Hp from Westers run.
and got 1.3 so let me redo my math which I guess I mistakenly took for a 30% difference. where I guess I should have done it backwards and got the 77% that you did LOL. That's what I get for sleeping in math class.

so if its at 77% of crank HP then crank. So Whp would be 23% less than Crank?

so  225WHP would be 292 at the crank? but thats what I got before. Can someone please explain what I'm doing wrong?

[DeepBlueGXP]

Like Bob said, different dynos produce different numbers and even a few cars stock on the same dyno produce different numbers.  Three of us dyno'd stock LNFs at the same time, 216, 219 and 225 RWHP. 

[2.0 tspeed]

The dyno is wrong it's not rocket science hop on another one

[Excelsior]

manual

[tazz]

?
Why does our drive train produce so much loss 15-18%?
The reason I ask is that I have a Supercharged Ford 150 supercrew cab that has a two driveshaft setup and from all the info I have the 4R100 tranny and that truck only see's a 13% drive train loss.  I would think that with there being 2 seperate drive shafts and the weight of those drive shafts that truck would see a larger loss?  The only explaination I can think of is Ford actually under rated the power output of that engine and it actually test higher than they advertise.
Thoughts?

[snaponbob]

?
Why does our drive train produce so much loss 15-18%?
The reason I ask is that I have a Supercharged Ford 150 supercrew cab that has a two driveshaft setup and from all the info I have the 4R100 tranny and that truck only see's a 13% drive train loss.  I would think that with there being 2 seperate drive shafts and the weight of those drive shafts that truck would see a larger loss?  The only explaination I can think of is Ford actually under rated the power output of that engine and it actually test higher than they advertise.
Thoughts?

Yup. How did you establish that 13% loss figure? In speaking with Lyndon Wester about this whole issue, he explained a method by which a dyno operator can figure the drive line loss. It made sense, but I have forgotten the method. Maybe I should e-mail him.

[tazz]

A forums data base of hundreds of dyno sheets from around the nation for Ford Harley trucks and Ford Lighting trucks that have the exact same engine and supercharger setup as well as the exact same tranny except the L's have a shorter 1 piece drive shaft vs the Harley trucks 2 piece drive shaft setup since it's longer.  The Lightings see around a 11% drive train loss as compared to a 13% for the Supercharged Harley trucks.

[Kelu]

Yup. How did you establish that 13% loss figure? In speaking with Lyndon Wester about this whole issue, he explained a method by which a dyno operator can figure the drive line loss. It made sense, but I have forgotten the method. Maybe I should e-mail him.

You should email Lyndon and don't forget to share
Looking forward to this info

[Jebsmith]

I would like to see how he gets 13% also. 

[snaponbob]

You should email Lyndon and don't forget to share
Looking forward to this info

E-mail sent.

BTW, as has been SO often said (almost to the point of  ) the ONLY figures that matter are the before and after results for a particular vehicle on the same dyno (hopefully in similar weather conditions). Assumed losses and AFTER results are nearly useless without a FACTUAL base line. In my case, I did not waste any money on a "before" run. I DO have hard numbers for my 91 octane tune and 100 octane tune. Next step is VP110 leaded. I could not care one bit about what is happening at the crank, just the wheels. THAT is what produces the rate of movement !!!!!

[old goat]

E-mail sent.

BTW, as has been SO often said (almost to the point of   ) the ONLY figures that matter are the before and after results for a particular vehicle on the same dyno (hopefully in similar weather conditions). Assumed losses and AFTER results are nearly useless without a FACTUAL base line. In my case, I did not waste any money on a "before" run. I DO have hard numbers for my 91 octane tune and 100 octane tune. Next step is VP110 leaded. I could not care one bit about what is happening at the crank, just the wheels. THAT is what produces the rate of movement !!!!!

Yea like Bob said, the numbers don't mean squat. There is a lot of useful data in the torque curve, strangly one of the most useful curves is the AFR that most people never look at, boost curve is helpful as well. Comparing dyno numbers is called bench racing. I also have a tuned Harley most shops do a WOT run and say here you go, the guy that tuned my bike does 25 runs, and tunes the entire curve, much like Lyndon does they both use Super Flow dyno's.

Sort of along these lines, if you have HP Tuners they have a different config file and histogram file just for the lnf motor, easy to download and install. Any good tuner can use the scans to help modify the tune, HP tuners is not dead on accurate but it's decent.