Topic: What is the LNF HP output without a turbo?

[tazz]

Does anyone know what the output rating of just the LNF2.0L engine itself WITHOUT the Borg K04 turbo?
Is there such a rating or was/is the LNF 2.0 engine only turbo charged?

[Uranium-238]

Well I don't have numbers but back when my turbo wasn't working right a Prius would easily have me at a light. Nightmarishly slow.

[NormSky]

Yoshi asked this same question on the big board awhile back. The consensus was around 100 hp off\no boost.

[G8TR]

Wow, it's that bad?

[tazz]

I was kind of thinking the same but was not sure just curious.

[Sol Asylum]

Well its going to have a hell of a drop because the turbo's impeller is going to be a huge air restriction in the inlet if all it is doing is setting there, same thing for the exhaust if the t-wheel isn't doing anything.  To get an accurate rating one would have to remove the turbo and set up some sort of intake and exhaust.

[G8TR]

That's what I was trying to figure, with a different intake and exhaust.

[tazz]

Yoshi asked this same question on the big board awhile back. The consensus was around 100 hp off\no boost.

Were they saying 100hp or 100hp-260 which would be 160hp?
Im supossing the latter which would be closer to 150-160 am I wrong?

[SKY888]

I'll guess 150-160hp as well...

[tazz]

/\
BTW
Was the pic of the green solstice you posted in wheels FS the one that had the custom trunk lid with the fuel cell and modified trunk?

[SKY888]

yup, its the Tjin Solstice

[MGar]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and say about 125HP at the crank.
Granted, my calculations aren't 100% correct, but here's how I come at that.
14.7psi (atmospheric pressure) + 16psi (boost seen before GMPP at my altitude)= 30.7psi
30.7psi/14.7 (atmospheric)= 2.088
260 (crank rated HP) / 2.088= 124.52, ~125.

I know that 33 feet under the water is = 1 atm/1 bar/14.7psi.
I seem to recall hearing that if one was to somehow be able to operate their car at that depth it would produce twice the power of one at sea level, hence the reason why I come up with those calculations.
I could be wrong though.

Keep in mind though, one of the reasons the number is so low is that the engine is designed to run at those pressures, whereas an NA is not, and will typically gain more power per psi, but typically not be able to run anywhere near the same pressure.

Static compression ratio, cam specifications, airflow characteristics etc can play out a bit different in a turbo car.  Certainly one could build an LNF to run NA, with different cams (lots of overlap for NA, which is bad for boosted cars) higher compression pistons, higher redline and likely make 200HP, but in stock form, NA is not it's strongest point.

[Arabas]

the lnf engine is based on the 2.2lt engine of GM, used in the latest generation of Vectra, and it had an output of 147hp and 20.7kgm of torque.
so i am guessing, the 2.0 lnf without the turbo should have an output of 130-140hp

http://www.indiacar.com/roadtest/opelvectra_a/engine.htm

[Kelu]

I pretty much agree with MGar.

[JimVonBaden]

The real answer is not in HP numbers. Drive right at the edge of boost and see how it feels. I suspect it will not be as slow as you think, but will certainly be no screamer.

If I had to guess I would say about 125-130. Typically full boost can double HP from no boost on a lower HP motor like ours.

Jim

[Arabas]

some people using the Trifecta here (with the select a tune feature), when they press the cruise button, they have the minimum boost that can be achieved (something like 2-3psi).
they have requested it this way from Vince to use it when driving in traffic in the city, to reduce consumption. never dynoed it though.
 i suppose this is the closest reality to NA lnf.

[DeepBlueGXP]

The real question is why would you want to know?

[SKY888]

you can fee how weak the LNF engine, if you're into limp mode...........you're like WTF! 

I think the guys are right, around 130hp.   Because my stock civic SiR (160 hp), is definitely a lot more powerful/faster compared to the sky on a limp mode

[kennysabarese]

Well limp mode does more than just stop the turbo. The timing and other things change. You'll notice that if you stand still and rev the engine in limp mode, it revs slower than it normally does.

[SKY888]

Well limp mode does more than just stop the turbo. The timing and other things change. You'll notice that if you stand still and rev the engine in limp mode, it revs slower than it normally does.

True dat!

But I guess, that's what will the LNF output/tune if there's no turbo......................which Tazz asked....

[kennysabarese]

If you were to remove the turbo and tune the engine to be at it's peak performance NA it would be more powerful than limp mode.

If you changed it to have higher compression it would probably end up with almost as much as the 2.4L

[SKY888]

nobody will really know what the power output will be, unless somebody tune the LNF (w/o turbo) to its "peak performance", and put it on a dyno....

but what if the GM engineers already pre-tuned it (w/o the turbo), and gives you it's power output, during a limp mode?   And safely run it all the time?   

It might not be the "peak performance"......just like these aftermarket tunes........but just a "regular performance" coming out from the factory.

[G8TR]

I was wondering how it could be figured out mathematically. Thanks

[SKY888]

MGar kinda did the mathematical computation:

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and say about 125HP at the crank.
Granted, my calculations aren't 100% correct, but here's how I come at that.
14.7psi (atmospheric pressure) + 16psi (boost seen before GMPP at my altitude)= 30.7psi
30.7psi/14.7 (atmospheric)= 2.088
260 (crank rated HP) / 2.088= 124.52, ~125.

I know that 33 feet under the water is = 1 atm/1 bar/14.7psi.
I seem to recall hearing that if one was to somehow be able to operate their car at that depth it would produce twice the power of one at sea level, hence the reason why I come up with those calculations.
I could be wrong though.

Keep in mind though, one of the reasons the number is so low is that the engine is designed to run at those pressures, whereas an NA is not, and will typically gain more power per psi, but typically not be able to run anywhere near the same pressure.

Static compression ratio, cam specifications, airflow characteristics etc can play out a bit different in a turbo car.  Certainly one could build an LNF to run NA, with different cams (lots of overlap for NA, which is bad for boosted cars) higher compression pistons, higher redline and likely make 200HP, but in stock form, NA is not it's strongest point.

[kennysabarese]

i've driven A LOT in limp mode (unfortunately) sometimes 50 miles.

i guarantee that limp mode is not "normal performance" minus turbo, the engine is so incredibly sluggish, worse than the crappiest rental car i've ever had. limp mode is "something is wrong, we're going to make sure nothing else goes wrong"

it goes really rich and the timing is horrible. it's a tiny fraction of the power.