Topic: Need some guidance from the experts - white smoke from exhaust

[jws0318]

I have a 2009 redline, 58k miles with charge pipes, intercooler, CAI, hi flow cat, magnaflow and GMR tune.

Within the last week of so, I have noticed a couple drops of oil on my garage floor - never leaked before. I just had the oil changed a few weeks ago, so i thought maybe they overfilled or spilled or something - didn't think much about it.

A couple days ago, after the car was at operating temp, i was parked idling in a parking lot for several minutes - all of the sudden, it looked like a spy movie - pretty thick white smoke pouring out the tailpipe. I turned the car off and checked everything underhood and found nothing obvious. I cautiously drove to the closest dealer (less than 5 miles) and they looked at it (as in 90 second check) and told me I have a bad turbo. There is oil where the turbo connects to the CAI hose and dripping onto the wastegate. I had the oil changed approx 2k miles ago - the dealer said i was about 1/4 quart low - not sure how exact that is, but whatever. All it told me is that it's not a big leak.

I drove the car home very cautiously, but i did not notice any lack of boost, high temps, anything. It ran exactly as it has always run.

So i get it home and pull the right side charge pipe - no oil in there at all - the oil is not blowing forward. I start the car, no smoke at all. let it idle for a few minutes, nothing. Then i push the gas pedal, and now i have white smoke, but no hint of oil - now i'm thinking head gasket? As soon as i let off the gas, the smoke clears.

Any idea what to check next? I'm well out of my warranty, but i'm thinking it still might go to the dealer to let them diagnose the problem - any ideas?

[Critterman]

Turbo seal, the turbo will need to be replaced,  several have had the exact same thing.  Chuckdoc just went through the same thing this past summer.

[jws0318]

Thanks Critterman - but how do i get white smoke from the tailpipe from a bad turbo seal?  The smoke definately does not smell like oil - it's more "whispy" and it rises and dissapates quickly.  How can I rule out head gasket?

Admittedly, I don't know alot about turbo systems, but I'm learning as I go. I appreciate any knowledge that anyone can share with me on this!

[LatinVenom]

Remember if it is the turbo is covered under your 5 year 100000 mile warranty.

[jws0318]

I'm thinking that with the tune plus the bolt ons, they won't touch me warranty-wise. 

In all honesty, if it's "just" the turbo, I can live with that - I have been on the fence about going with a bigger turbo anyhow, but i don't want to go through the effort and expense to put on a bigger turbo only to find out that i still have a problem that requires more time/effort/money to correct.

[LatinVenom]

That is up to you but the dealer could do a compression test and a leak test.
If turns out to be the turbo then you can make up your mind as to what to do.

[jws0318]

Not to sound like a complete idiot, but the compression test and the leak test will determine if it is definately the turbo that is bad or if it is the head gasket, or both?

[1LILNDN]

jws0318 ; Dealer just replaced my Turbo on Oct 26,2010 said it had a crack and passing oil . I like chuck doc were blowing blueish smoke when taking off . Check the oil see if there any signs of wateror Milkey color. Also pull the Filter and check it.        

    Bobby

[jws0318]

I checked the dipstick and it looks fine - no problem there.  the smoke is blueish in color, but doesn't smell like oil - i'm starting to think more and more that it's the seals in the turbo.

[LatinVenom]

The compression test is to absolutely make sure is not the engine even though you do not have blue smoke.

[jws0318]

ok, thanks everyone.  I think tomorrow I'll have it flat-bedded over to the dealer and let them take a look at it - I'll make sure that a compression test is on the list of things to do.  Hopefully, they can tell me definitively one way or another if the turbo is my problem, or if not, what is.

[DeepBlueGXP]

The turbo seal critterman is referring to is on the shaft from the impeller on the exhaust side.  You won't see it smoke until you get on it hard and it will be white because it burns as soon as it hits the high temps in the exhaust side of the turbo.

[1LILNDN]

Remember if it is the turbo is covered under your 5 year 100000 mile warranty.

jws0318    ask about what LV said .

[jws0318]

I will ask. Thanks.

[Arabas]

jws0318 if it is a bad turbo, you will probably have oil on the down side of the turbo (on your wastegate and on the connector).
if you can, use a compact camera and take some fotos of the down side of the turbo and post them.
i believe it will be obvious.

check the fotos on the 2nd post of the 2nd page (post#21)

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,5008.20.html

[jws0318]

Thanks for that link Arabus - that looks exactly like my problem.  I'm now convinced that's the issue.  Now its off to the dealer to argue warranty.

Is the car drivable like this?  Assuming i keep a close eye on the oil level, can i do any further damage to the turbo/motor, or should I have it flat bedded in for the repair?

[Critterman]

Like Joe said the oil leaks straight into the hot side of the exhaust.  Chuck's would do it when he hit the gas and no other time.  The only reason either of us noticed it was because I was following him down a country road.

[spider]

A compression check showed me mine was not a turbo issue but a piston or piston ring problem. Same smoke occasionally & same oily area just in front of the turbo & down on wastegate diaphram. Cross your fingers! Its kind a luck of the draw thing being similar symptoms & both are showing their weaknesses more & more now! 

[jws0318]

aarrgghh!!!  not what i wanted to hear!  Just when i thought i knew what the problem was...


I guess the best thing to do is just tow it to the dealer and let them take a look at it.

[2.0 tspeed]

Mine did the same thing came out to be blown motor

[spider]

That would be the honest/WRONG thing to do. Most people swap everything back to stock first then take it to the dealership so it will be done under warranty.(I went the pay to play route, no monkeys wrenching on any more of my cars.) You might opt to take it to an independent shop or a friend to have a compression check done or get a cheap gage at harbor freight. No more difficult than changing spark plugs. (No GM records of tune & numerous other warranty voiding bolt-ons......)  Hopefully its just the turbo!

[jws0318]

Thats a good point - i will take it somewhere other than a dealer just to keep my options open.

I'm curious though - if i had an issue with the motor, (like a bad piston or a blown motor) wouldn't I be throwing codes left and right?  It makes sense to me that a problem with a seal in the turbo would not throw a code, but i would think anything internal to the engine itself would light my dash like a christmas tree...

[snaponbob]

It depends. For instance, low oil or oil pressure may light an idiot light but probably not CEL. However, as oil is being spewed out of the turbo seal the cat will get murdered and the O2 sensors will get coated, and THEN you WILL see codes and your costs will certainly go up. You may want to contact the various tuners (DDM, Werks, Dejon, etc.) to see if they have a clean take off turbo. Cheaper than new.

[jws0318]

ok, compression test complete and everything is within tolerances.  With 100 ft/lbs pressure, cyl #1 is 100, #2 is 135, #3 is 150 and #4 is 150.  The guide is for them to be within 70% of each other, so i guess I'm good? 

So does this rule out everythingmentioned above but blown seals in the turbo?  Would it be the right move to proceed with replacing the turbo?

Thanks for all your help!

[Yogi]

That 100 psi on #1 doesn't look good to me.  I've never heard of 70% variation as being OK.  More like 10%.