Topic: Opel GT upgrade to Borg Warner EFR turbo

[frictionfighter]

I'm 100% sure that Kelu is meticulous and took the greatest care with this install.  That said, it doesn't matter what we think.

In response to your two things Arabas:
1. If you understand the turbocharging aftermarket, then you would know that all of this is standard procedure.  My best friend works for Garrett as a Mechanical Engineer.  He designed the GT30R for the Evo X.  I learned a lot about the development of new turbos through watching him.  They design a bunch, release them, they break, they bring them back and learn from them and then perfect.  It's the way it's done.
2.  This was a tough one for me as well.  I wanted to pay for everything for Kelu but this is not standard procedure for warrantying a commodity.  Furthermore, it's small peanuts in light of the entire scope of this issue.  e.g. Would you rather have your shipping paid but have to provide proof that there was no oil starvation?

Above all, Kelu is one of the first to run this turbo on his car.  When you are blazing a new trail, it always takes more time but the results could be invaluable!

[frictionfighter]

Kelu you have no idea how much I feel your frustration, the coupe has been down for 4 months waiting for new pistons.

Jimmy, I think we ALL feel your frustration.  If you have built a car then you have felt Kelu's pain!!  Amen?

[elff]

A fawking nut came off.
Nothing to prove there shy of someone not doing their job properly on the assembly line.

Also
If I had ordered one product and was shipped another that was cheaper AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE I would be pissed.
So if it was me, yea I would be bashing Full Race if
1. They didn't send me the product I bought and gave me full shipping on return of the product they sent me that I DIDN'T ORDER
or
2. Gave me a refund for the price difference AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE

I don't care who the company is.  That's B.S.


Kelu did pay good money, for something that was supposed to be high quality and he received a different product that was put together quickly and failed due to someone's negligence.

He has all the right in the world to be disappointed. 
He isn't bashing them, he said he is disappointed and I think everyone in his shoes would be. 
He has some valid points and is handling it very diplomatically.

Telling him no to bash them, after the above information is the part I would suggest being careful about. 

[frictionfighter]

A fawking nut came off.
Nothing to prove there shy of someone not doing their job properly on the assembly line.



Also
If I had ordered one product and was shipped another that was cheaper AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE I would be pissed.
So if it was me, yea I would be bashing Full Race if
1. They didn't send me the product I bought and gave me full shipping on return of the product they sent me that I DIDN'T ORDER
or
2. Gave me a refund for the price difference AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE

I don't care who the company is.  That's B.S.

Kelu did pay good money, for something that was supposed to be high quality and he received a different product that was put together quickly and failed due to someone's negligence.

He has all the right in the world to be disappointed. 
He isn't bashing them, he said he is disappointed and I think everyone in his shoes would be. 
He has some valid points and is handling it very diplomatically.

Telling him no to bash them, after the above information is the part I would suggest being careful about. 

Feisty little fella aren't ya? 

My point about bashing Full Race or BW is simply that it won't get your anywhere.  All of this complaining is moot when you consider the fact that Kelu is getting a brand new turbo. 

Apparently I need to go back and read this whole thread.  Kelu wasn't shipped a cheaper item.  BW and Full Race have both stated that the 6258 is a better turbo (down to Brock, the original designer) than the 6758 and I suggested that to Kelu.  He would still be waiting on the 6758 if he had not chosen to do so.  He CHOSE to buy the 6258; it wasn't simply shipped to him.

Furthermore, I paid all of the shipping that was well in excess of the $70.00 difference between the two turbos.

Get your facts straight before you come barking in my direction again.

[SKY888]

Kelu received the first few EFR turbos through the help of frictionfighter.

Its just so happen that the EFR failed (BW fault OR Kelu's mechanic's fault....nobody knows).    This happens.....

Project Scarab....for example...........his turbo (brand new) messed up  during dyno tuning session.  His Bullseye turbo has been in the market for many years.....but still I guess it wasnt perfected by bullseye.    EFR has been in the market for only a few months.   Nobody knows who's at fault.......Bullseye or Project Scarab's mechanic.    This unknown thing happens on different occasions.

I beleive Project Scarab also paid for shipping to get a new product.

It's very frustrating for the car owners modifying their cars, indeed.   But RECEIVING a NEW TURBO in replacement for NOT PROVING how the turbo broke.......is a good deal.

So I don't really see.....why all these bashings are happening.

If BW/EFR turbos caused somebody not to believe in their products.......then just simply don't buy it......

I dealt with Geoff, owner of Full Race for several years.  He is a very helpful and intellectual guy.  He will try to help you as much as he could.  But we have to be reminded that he and his company is also bounded by the policies of borg warner....

[elff]

Feisty and little pretty much sums me up to a T.

Kelu wasn't bashing. 
Let me state that again.
Kelu wasn't bashing

Disappointment does not equal bashing.  He was expressing his feelings.

Under the same circumstances, most people would be disappointed, especially now that the vehicle is disabled until the new part arrives.
Who wouldn't be disappointed by a brand new part failing so quickly.  

To say a person in that circumstance should be careful about posting his disappointment IMHO is silly.

This is why I am responding.  I disagree.  He diplomatically posted his opinion.  It's the internet, he is documenting his build on a forum.
If that's Barking,
WOOF.

[SKY888]

Kelu is very disappointed, indeed.  I felt his pain the moment when he emailed me a month or so ago, about what happened (long before he announced it on this forum).  

Kelu, IMO is not bashing at all.       But I think some of the posters started bcoming negative towards the involved companies/vendors because they all felt his pain and disappointment.

I was actually surprised and happy that Kelu will get a brand new unit.   I never expected that it will be that easy for him without him to go through the hassle of proving it to BW that it's BW's fault.

Anyways, I'm hoping that Kelu will get his new unit soon.......and his car up and running.

Let's just be positive and and hope for the best  

[frictionfighter]

Perhaps bashing was too strong of a word.  I'm simply trying to avoid ill placed negativity.  Full Race is a fantastic company that is trying to mitigate the strange tactics that BW is currently employing.

It's easy for Borg Warner, they aren't the public facing ones...

[Critterman]

We get spoiled by the services we recieve from vendores like DDM, Solo, and others on this forum, we forget what bigger companies dealing with all makes are like.


Elff - he called you a little fella 


FF - he really is only about 3'11''

[SKY888]

We get spoiled by the services we recieve from vendores like DDM, Solo, and others on this forum, we forget what bigger companies dealing with all makes are like.

EXACTLY.......

[elff]

Elff - he called you a little fella 

Notice I didn't disagree with that.
 

[kennysabarese]

We get spoiled by the services we recieve from vendores like DDM, Solo, and others on this forum, we forget what bigger companies dealing with all makes are like.

Yeah you'd think that a bigger company with much deeper pockets, like Borg Warner, would be able to help out a normal guy, whereas a small vendor, who have far less volume and money stashed away to do the nice things they do for us, but they still do.

Thank you multinational corporations!

[SKY888]

Yeah you'd think that a bigger company with much deeper pockets, like Borg Warner, would be able to help out a normal guy, whereas a small vendor, who have far less volume and money stashed away to do the nice things they do for us, but they still do.

Thank you multinational corporations!

yeah, these big companies, really don't give a $%^& since they'll survive if they lose one customer.

smaller companies are more personal to their customers...and provide better customer service.   Plus of course business-wise, every customer is very important to them, since it will be a big hit losing one customer.

I still believe that Kelu is getting a great customer service for getting a new unit, no questions asked.    Only thing that he didn't get resolved is.........his shipping issues.

[Arabas]

IMHO it's just a matter of flexibility, size and corporation philosophy.
it's like comparing how easy a small fish can change course compared to a whale.

i think that overall Kelu is happy with the fact that he didn't get bullied by BW and that they are replacing his turbo FOC. he just happens to be in the other end of the world which makes shipping back and forth a bit difficult!

oh well, i m sure everything will work out just fine and we are going to be proud of Kelu's set up and the power he will make.
Let's hope that FINALLY he will a race 

[SKY888]

i think that overall Kelu is happy with the fact that he didn't get bullied by BW and that they are replacing his turbo FOC. he just happens to be in the other end of the world which makes shipping back and forth a bit difficult!

yup, that's what I was thinking.

if it happened to anybody in the US....this shipping issues will not be an issue.

[kennysabarese]

I think BW is doing the right thing! Don't get me wrong. But to expedite the replacement would have been nice and maybe cover some shipping would have been nice. But overall Kelu is still coming out on top.

What is unfortunate is that stock is so low on these units that he will have to wait so long. He is going to miss at least two races.

[SKY888]

these EFRs are sooooo much in demand.

a long wait for everybody who wants it.

[frictionfighter]

Actually, the shipping is not b/c he's overseas.  It's just not a part of warranty work.  When you warranty something, you always pay the shipping.  Full Race actually moves several 1000 turbos a year.  You have to be at that level of distribution. 

One other thought:  Garrett sold ~8 million turbos last year.  200,000 went to the automotive aftermarket.  We are small fish in a big pond.

I'll chip in and pay the shipping from myself to Kenny. 

[SKY888]

all returns/exchanges are USUALLY not paid by the vendor.

It's paid by the consumer

[elff]

Yup Yup

I still don't understand why Kelu doesn't turn into a bat, fly to BW at midnight, pick up his turbo and fly home.
Can't be that heavy.........

[frictionfighter]

He's not small enough.  Can you do that? 

[elff]

Id have to run through the grass blades, takes longer than Count Dracula transforming
 

[LatinVenom]

I understand everything that has been said, my problem is where the failure occurred.
I just hope for BW sake, this is not a design flaw, because in Kelu's case, he was extremely lucky his engine did not go bye bye.

[SKY888]

its not a design flaw

Sierra-sierra time attack car has been running EFR turbo for months now.......and it never failed.

Forced performance, and other vendors have shown dyno runs using EFR turbo, outperforming Garrett GTX turbos.

It is just unfortunate that Kelu received that bad fruit ......

[Uranium-238]

its not a design flaw

Evidently my previous post got missed. The question still hasn't been answered and may help clear this point up. I can't help but think the engineers who designed it would have thought of this but I'm curious. If the turbo spins in the direction that loosens the nut...

Out of curiosity...What direction is this nut threaded, and what direction does the turbine spin in?