Topic: who needs a big turbo when you have e85 :-)

[SKY888]

anyone have a comparison between race gas and the corn?

kenny, I researched this for months early this year.

It's basically a toss up between the two.    Some vendors will show E85 will produce more power.  Some vendors will show C16.

They both have pros and cons.

So basically, they both produce more power compared to 93 octane.

Biggest advantage of E85 is the cost......since it almost 1/4 the price of c16.  But you need to upgrade on your fuel system since you need to inject more E85 by volume.   On high powered car, a secondary fuel system (double high HP fuel pump, bigger injectors, etc) is a must, if using E85.

Biggest advantage of C16/Q16/Super Blue....or those other race gases, is they are more available, and better consistency of mixtures.

[elff]

In regards to the volume statement, How many miles can you get out of a tank of E85 compared to gasoline in the same driving conditions.

For instance. 70mph on the highway, I believe our cars can get around 350 miles.
How many can you get with E85?

[SKY888]

if you're getting 30 MPG on pure gasoline.......you will typically achieve about 22 MPG, or slightly better, on E85 (summer blend.) When operated on E85 winter blend, which is actually E70 (70% ethanol, 30% gasoline), fuel economy will be higher than when operating on the summer blend.

depending on what source you get it from.....or who you talked to.........the E85 fuel  is 20-30%  inefficient  since it contains less energy than gasoline

[SKY888]

In regards to the volume statement, How many miles can you get out of a tank of E85 compared to gasoline in the same driving conditions.

For instance. 70mph on the highway, I believe our cars can get around 350 miles.
How many can you get with E85?

if you use 20-30% inefficiency of E85

you will get around 245 - 280 miles

[snaponbob]

If a car is going to be used (at all) on the street, C16 is not an option, unless you are packing a laptop to change the tune if you run out and have to use gasoline. Assuming one has E85 available, the cost IS a significant advantage. As for upgrading the fuel system to run E85, that is not necessary unless one is going for max output. A more modest E85 tune can be run that does not require as much fuel, and thus the fuel system can keep up. AND, you will STILL get a LOT of power.

Had a good talk with with Vince today about the delivery challenges. He said that mid rpm trouble is usually the HPHV pump while the higher rpm trouble (what I am experiences) is a tank pump problem. So, Antonio has shipped the Halbro tank pump and Vince has sent me a file that backs off a bit above 5800 rpm to hopefully eliminate the limp mode I hit. I guess we will all learn together !!!!!!! ZZP is apparently working on a modified something or another for the HPHV side of the problem.

Fuel mileage ?? On 91 octane at ~70mph I was seeing 29-30mpg with a Wester's tune. In the Trifecta low tune mode I have been seeing 26-27mpg. Of course, with either tune, mileage takes a dump as the right side pedal is pressed harder !!!!

[SKY888]

So, Antonio has shipped the Halbro tank pump

sorry to disappoint you bob, but you will not get a Halbro inline pump.

you will get a Walbro 255lph pump instead

[kennysabarese]

Good luck with the Walbro bob.

I'm waiting for someone to try the GMT900 fuel pump, which is meant to be drop in plug and play from a GM employee who works on fuel systems and is also a kappa owner.

I know Jae on the big board said he bought one, but I think he got the wrong one since it didn't fit.

[SKY888]

this IS a plug and play unit 

Walbro 255lph........

[snaponbob]

sorry to disappoint you bob, but you will not get a Halbro inline pump.

you will get a Walbro 255lph pump instead

F%*&ing keyboard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brazen17]

So how will the various blends of e85 used throughout the year effect the tune? Will you have to have a new tune each time the season changes? Or does the computer have enough leeway to run all the blends? Like SOB said earlier about power levels, I don't think I would want the tune running at the ragged edge, but, maybe somewhere around 85% or so. From what I see that should put the BHP somewhere in the 370-375 range. I think I would be happy (for a while anyway!) with anything over 350BHP. That would be at least 60HP over the GMPP tune I currently have.

[SKY888]

Unlike other GM cars that have flex fuel ECM......that will be able to adjust......our ECM dont.

Vince will be able to answer your questions, since he will probably be setting your tune, and not pushing it....where it will get destroyed if you have a "different blend/mix of E85".

I think if its a mild E85 tune, you'll be fine.........


But for the idiots who is trying to squeeze every hp possible for his WILD E85 tune.....and if he gets a different blend/mix...............something bad will probably happen.....

[BSRL]

this IS a plug and play unit 

Walbro 255lph........

What is the difference between this one and the one Werks sells?

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=334_165_414&products_id=1874

[kennysabarese]

this IS a plug and play unit 

Walbro 255lph........

I thought that the pump had to be modified. Maybe my memory is bad. But I remember GreenRL going through this and had Randy @ DDM modify the Walbro to work.... remember that?

[Arabas]

i second what Kenny says. i also remember DDM slightly modifying the pump to fit in

[SKY888]

I thought that the pump had to be modified. Maybe my memory is bad. But I remember GreenRL going through this and had Randy @ DDM modify the Walbro to work.... remember that?

THAT is the DDM walbro 255lph pump ..........when Bob receives it.....all he has to do is remove his stock unit....and plug this whole unit it....voila!


PLUG AND PLAY!  

that's why I asked bob, to send his stock unit to DDM, since I paid for the CORE fee.

[SKY888]

i second what Kenny says. i also remember DDM slightly modifying the pump to fit in

second him for what?   

the ddm walbro 255lph that I'm sending bob is plug and play......

[SKY888]

What is the difference between this one and the one Werks sells?

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=334_165_414&products_id=1874

the difference is......werks is only selling the pump itself.

not the whole unit (including the plastic core). 

DDM already installed the pump into the whole unit.

both of them uses Walbro 255lph pump

[Arabas]

second him for what?   

the ddm walbro 255lph that I'm sending bob is plug and play......

Antonio, i seconded him in what i remembered to be true. not saying what i remember is the truth, but it is what i remember. of course i may be wrong. it's never a bad thing to say what you remember

[kennysabarese]

Thanks for clearing that up Antonio. If you had said it was already modified then I wouldn't have asked!

SOB, Can't wait to hear if the pump helps....

[Ryridesmotox]

Good day gents.  I found this forum a little while ago and found this particular thread.  Let me attempt to clear some things up if I can.

If you mix E85 with premium octane you can compensate for winter blends by putting in more E85 and less 91 or 93, or visa versa depending on season.  The E85 actually leans out the AFR a little bit which is why you run the ethanol "richer" so to speak.  There is oxygen in the Ethanol because it is an alcohol based fuel.  So therefore, less Ethanol vs. 91 or 93 means your AFR will be rich not lean so your fuel economy may suffer but you most likely won't blow your motor unless something else is wrong.  My mix never changes down here in southern California but many places do.  Most guys that tune with HP tunes and E85 will give you a couple different tunes to compensate for this.  Then you can simply load a new tune as the seasons change if you need it.  Or like I said above just use more E85 from the pump.

Originally I didn't want to run Ethanol at all (basically cuz I didn't want to mix it).  I was going to swap turbos but now I have more power than my FWD can handle so no need for the turbo swap.

Also I just tuned a Sky Redline this week.  That thing is really quick with just a DP, a K&N drop in, and an E85 mix tune on 24psi.  The RWD is a big advantage.

[SKY888]

Thanks for clearing that up Antonio. If you had said it was already modified then I wouldn't have asked!

SOB, Can't wait to hear if the pump helps....

yes, it was already modified, THAT's why I posted the photo of the whole unit itself (including walbro pump) which is plug and play, which I will be sending bob.

Trust me, I'm not gonna say its plug and play......if it's not plug and play............especially, if I'm selling it to someobdy.



anyways......it's all clear now for everybody reading.

wheeeew......

[SKY888]

I was at work when Bob decided he wanted the pump ASAP.

So I took half day off yesterday, and went back home .

I boxed the item and shipped it to him.   

He should receive it soon.


And yes, I myself is VERY eager to find out if this pump will help him out.  Very interested!

I don't need the pump right now...since my car is still being built.   I'll let somebody who needs it....use it for a good cause

[Gentleman Jack]

Good day gents.  I found this forum a little while ago and found this particular thread.  Let me attempt to clear some things up if I can.

If you mix E85 with premium octane you can compensate for winter blends by putting in more E85 and less 91 or 93, or visa versa depending on season.  The E85 actually leans out the AFR a little bit which is why you run the ethanol "richer" so to speak.  There is oxygen in the Ethanol because it is an alcohol based fuel.  So therefore, less Ethanol vs. 91 or 93 means your AFR will be rich not lean so your fuel economy may suffer but you most likely won't blow your motor unless something else is wrong.  My mix never changes down here in southern California but many places do.  Most guys that tune with HP tunes and E85 will give you a couple different tunes to compensate for this.  Then you can simply load a new tune as the seasons change if you need it.  Or like I said above just use more E85 from the pump.

Originally I didn't want to run Ethanol at all (basically cuz I didn't want to mix it).  I was going to swap turbos but now I have more power than my FWD can handle so no need for the turbo swap.

Also I just tuned a Sky Redline this week.  That thing is really quick with just a DP, a K&N drop in, and an E85 mix tune on 24psi.  The RWD is a big advantage.

Carlsbad Comifornia....
Too funny.
Welcome to the forum.  I'm in La Mesa.  Heading to Pendleton in about 10 minutes!

Thanks for the info on the e85.  Like you, I'm interested,but don't want to deal with the mixing....

[Ryridesmotox]

You need to talk to Fortunato, he has a 07 sky redline I believe (black with white stripes).  We just finished tuning if for E this weekend with Terminator2 (a cobalt LNF tuner).  His car is faster than mine from anything slower than a 60 roll since I get zero traction below 60mph.  There is an E85 station in El Cajon off I-8 and El Cajon Blvd.

Oh and I already mix... IT's not that big of a deal, just 2 credit card swipes and 5 gallons of 91 and 5 gallons of E85

[SKY888]

damn, small world!

I know Fortunato!!!

spoke with him twice on the phone.  He used to have a cobalt...sold it...then bought a jetta/vw.....then sold it....then now have a sky