Author Topic: Let's Talk F1  (Read 963170 times)

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Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3550 on: August 02, 2021, 08:52:38 PM »
Why is F1 concerned about that

The 1% jet setting around in their fancy private jets feels the need to pay lip service to nothingness to ease their consciences rather than seeking to make a real difference in the world. Least that's how I see it. Bezos caught a lot of flack for his spaceflight, but at least he's gainfully employing some people in that endeavor.
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Offline elff

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3551 on: August 03, 2021, 06:13:14 PM »
BUt that's the thing
Vettel was showing support for the LTGBBQ crowd, which supposedly F1 supports
So it's kind of counter to their opening credits

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3552 on: August 04, 2021, 12:51:13 AM »
The BBQ crowd, now they know how to smoke some meat!

I wonder if Albon is going to try and recreate that race.

Why would MB get rid of Bottas?  That wreck ended up being a big help to the team.

I am not even sure what the most amazing part was there are so many to choose from.

Ocon still got first, Ham second, Sainz third.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 01:08:54 AM by Sol Asylum »
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3553 on: August 04, 2021, 01:24:13 AM »
The shirt issue wasn't because of what was on the shirt so much as it was the drivers wearing it during the playing of the national anthem.

F1 doesn't want to pull a KapperNike and piss off people in the host country by having drivers do something that may be deemed disrespectful during the anthem.  As such the drivers are supposed to remove their "Woke" T-shirts and just be in their team uniform for the anthem.
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3554 on: August 04, 2021, 05:52:22 PM »
All the FIA is doing is using the t-shirt thing to go after Vettell. I read as much as I could find and no where did I read that the OCON race car was also required to give a litter of gas to the FIA. OCON also ran out of gas as well, lets not forget that part. MB and Hamilton are their sacred cow and the FIA will do what they can to keep that from crashing. They also give their other marquee (FERRARI)  more points. The FIA knows it would have been a huge mistake if the FIA also disqualify OCON and then give their preferred person 1st place.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3555 on: August 04, 2021, 06:02:03 PM »
It is all about disrespecting a countries flag and anthem.  Sound familiar?
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3556 on: August 04, 2021, 09:49:34 PM »
The fuel tank is supposed to be designed to hold 1.5L of unusable fuel.  Meaning you can run out of gas but there is still 1.5L of gas in there.  They were only able to pull .3L out of Vettel's car.  I assume Ocon's car was able to supply the 1L required.

The T-shirt thing was only a reprimand, you have to get 3 reprimands before there are any consequences and only one non-driving reprimand can count in that total of 3.  So basically it doesn't mean shit.

It is all about disrespecting a countries flag and anthem.  Sound familiar?

To bad the NFL doesn't have the guts to do something similar.
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3557 on: August 05, 2021, 04:55:27 PM »
It is all about disrespecting a countries flag and anthem.  Sound familiar?
Sorry Critterman I do not follow. The American athletes kneel, or turned their backs to the American flag, but on the podium the Anthem that is played is the one of the winner, in this case OCON, I do not remember if the anthem for 2nd place is also played. I believe Ocon is French and Vettell is German and both NEVER kneel or turn their backs, so what is the issue?. I still can not remember seen a t-shirt on either OCON or Vetell, maybe I was paying to much attention to Hamilton, that look to be winded and could hardly move to notice the t-shits. I am honestly trying to remember the presentation, but can not remember seen t-shirts on Ocon or Vettell.
Sol Asylum, then if Ocon was able to supply the 1L of gas, why was that not mentioned on any article covering the race?.
I just hope that Aston Martin can find a way to show the 1L was there, since they are protesting the penalty to Vettell.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3558 on: August 05, 2021, 05:53:01 PM »
Pre-race LV, when they play the country hosting the race anthem.   In this case it was a rainbow tshirt in a country with strick anti-gay laws.
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3559 on: August 05, 2021, 06:50:15 PM »
All cars have to supply the fuel sample it's part of the post race inspection.  It's just like how they all get weighed, cars and drivers.

They have to remove the sample while a judge is witnessing it.  Even if they they somehow get the fuel later if there isn't an official to witness it I don't think things will be overturned.  Now maybe if Albon recreates it.....
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 06:57:33 PM by Sol Asylum »
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3560 on: August 06, 2021, 02:22:21 PM »
Pre-race LV, when they play the country hosting the race anthem.   In this case it was a rainbow tshirt in a country with strick anti-gay laws.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3561 on: August 08, 2021, 04:40:52 PM »
Just watched the race.  Holy Crap! 

The second standing start was so bizarre.  I've never seen a solo-standing start before. 

Thoughts - the first turn crash was unfortunate.  Botas likely made the most egregious error, but when Norris moved in front, Botas lost tons of downforce and grip.  Still, his fault, but not intentional at all.   

Alsono's driving to keep Hamilton behind was BEAUTIFUL to watch.  Amazing.  Fair, aggressive, thoughtful.  So good.

Hamilton - amazing drive.  So many passes on a hard track.  Alonso likely kept Hamilton from P1.

Vettle - I didn't see the t-shirt at the pre-race.  Did see the face mask.  I've got zero issues with that. 

Ocon - so excited for him.  I haven't read anything on the fuel (and haven't gotten there on the broadcast) - so I have no idea what that is all about.  I'll research.  Didn't want to read anything before watching the race.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3562 on: August 08, 2021, 04:48:48 PM »
All cars have to supply the fuel sample it's part of the post race inspection.  It's just like how they all get weighed, cars and drivers.

They have to remove the sample while a judge is witnessing it.  Even if they they somehow get the fuel later if there isn't an official to witness it I don't think things will be overturned.  Now maybe if Albon recreates it.....

SA- Vettle's car is impounded and sealed, so they can still validate the fuel quantity.  I'm guessing AM shows there is an issue with the fuel pump and they manually extract the required fuel for testing.  At least, that's the defense I think they will come up with.  Either way - the car is preserved for now. 


What was the issue with Ocon?  I didn't see any articles of him getting DQ'd?  Or was that just reported in error?
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3563 on: August 08, 2021, 05:49:05 PM »
GJ, to my knowledge OCON was not DQ'd but it was penalize because of the t-shirt incident is my understanding. Maybe Critterman has more info. I have never watch the pre race where the host country anthem is played.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3564 on: August 08, 2021, 08:06:37 PM »
Because Ocon didn't bring his car in to par fermay or what ever it is called and ran out of fuel on the track, there was the possibility he could have been in trouble as well.  Never did hear anything else on it.
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3565 on: August 09, 2021, 05:17:16 PM »
I keep lookin at my F1 App to see if there is any news about the Aston Martin challenge to the FIA, about Vettell's race car and the amount of fuel that it truly had. So far I have not found any mentioned of it, will keep looking though.
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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3566 on: August 09, 2021, 06:15:40 PM »
Information is not very forthcomming
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3567 on: August 10, 2021, 11:03:34 AM »
Probably not going to hear much for a while since it's the summer break.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3568 on: August 10, 2021, 10:51:06 PM »
Probably not going to hear much for a while since it's the summer break.

We can take these three weeks to debate other things! 

Penalties - should they be applied differently to different teams for the same infractions?  Should a slow team be penalized 10 seconds and a fast team 30 because they are slow / fast?  That only makes the penalties fair? Right? 
(IMO - WRONG - penality should be same across the board for similar infractions.  )

Is wearing a t shirt during a national anthem somehow a bad thing?  The rules, the way I understand it "REQUEST" drivers to be in their driving suits for the Anthem.  And perhaps, Vettle somehow broke an F1 rule, but to suggest there is any way his t-shirt could possibly disrespect the Hungarian flag, is patently absurd.  That would mean any time I wear a t-shirt of any social, political, or profane nature to a ballgame and stand for the National Anthem, I'm somehow disrespecting the flag?  :censor:  that nonsense.  I'm not having any of it. 

Ocon - First win.  Do you all think this is the First of many?  First and last?  Enough to get him on a better team? 

Botas - Moved down? Russel Moved up?  Or... Is Toto eyeing ANOTHER driver for Botas' seat next year (this is my opinion)?  I also think a lot hinges on Hamilton return / retirement.  If HAM returns, I can see Alonso driving for Merc.  If Ham retires, I can see Russel moving up, Botas gone and a middle age driver replacing him. 

Any other fun topics?

GJ
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Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3569 on: August 11, 2021, 08:44:23 AM »
I agree with everything
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3570 on: August 11, 2021, 01:29:56 PM »
Don't anyone tell GJ that Ham already signed a new 2 year contract.

I don't see Alonso driving for Merc, kind of surprised he's back at all.  That being said, I liked how he held Ham up this last race wouldn't mind seeing more of that.

Personally I didn't have an issue with Vettel's shirt but I understand why F1 has the rule and as such they need to enforce it.  The penalty doesn't really amount to anything so I suspect we will see more of the same.  As Americans we are perhaps more tolerant of this sort of thing, we also tend to think that because our laws allow for this it should be common place everywhere.  Not all countries are that tolerant and in some it could be a major issue. (remember the Ferrari boss that got arrested a few years ago because he tossed a cigarette butt on the ground)  I suspect F1 just wants to avoid the issue of an international incident that's why they have the "race as one" thing which allows the drivers their soap box and a host country the ability to not air that segment if they choose.  When a driver caries that over into the anthem then that can be an issue.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3571 on: August 11, 2021, 04:59:16 PM »
Hungary had just passed even Stricker same sex laws.  Vettel was wearing a rainbow shirt.  Basically thumbing his nose at the host country.  A lot of people don't understand that other countries DO NOT play by the same rules we do.  So yes it is a big deal.  You do it here and big deal you do it there and you could be looking at jail time. 

Penalties should be equal for all teams for the same infraction, period no if ands or buts.


That being said Bottas got a 5 position penalty for causing the accident - that is a normal penalty.  Red Bull is getting a 10 spot penalty for replacing the engine (damaged by the accident) for replacing it and exceeding the 3 engine limit.  Again a normal penalty, but maybe one that should be looked at.

Bottas - I am up in the air about this, he is not driving up to expected standards in my opinion.  Will he be or should he be replaced?  Question for Toto.  Alonso I don't think so, Russell perhaps, or someone else.  And yes I too want to see more driving like we saw with Alonso and Hamilton.

On a side note, Austin filed an appeal and a notice to review.  The review is supposed to take place today.  According to the report I read this morning team data shows that there was 1.75 liters of fuel left in the tank.  Time will tell on this one.
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3572 on: August 11, 2021, 05:27:42 PM »
Here is the Aston Martin information.
But at an FIA hearing on Monday, the FIA denied Aston Martin?s request to review the case because the latest indications from the team were that a mechanical problem potentially meant there was not one-litre of fuel left at all.
For the request to review to be accepted, Aston Martin needed to provide a ?significant? and ?relevant? new element that was discovered after the event and had been unavailable to the competitor at the time of the decision.

At the hearing, the team submitted analysis from more than 100 channels of fuel-system related data to show that there had been a fuel system failure in Vettel?s car.

This failure of fuel cell pressure meant the air pump in the fuel cell activated a maximum output which, by pumping air through the fuel cell, meant a significant amount of fuel was discharged from the car. It was this failure that meant only 0.3 litres of fuel could be extracted afterwards.

The FIA accepted that this evidence, which pointed to a malfunction of the fuel cell pressure relief value, was a new element.

However, in light of further investigations conducted by Aston Martin, it emerged that the team believes that there was actually less than one-litre of fuel remaining in the car at the end of the race due to the fuel system problem. Therefore, the FIA felt that the new evidence was not relevant to the case.

The key original stewards? decision was based on there not being the mandatory one-litre of fuel remaining, rather than dealing with any reasons why, which is exactly what Aston Martin?s latest evidence supports.

An FIA statement said: ?For the assessment of whether or not the one-litre requirement was broken, it does not make a difference why there was less than one litre.

?There may be a couple of explanations why at the end of a race the remaining amount is insufficient. In any case, it remains the sole responsibility of the Competitor to ensure that the car is in conformity with the regulations all times (Art. 3.2 FIA International Sporting Code) and it shall be no defense to claim that no performance advantage was obtained (Art 1.3.3 FIA International Sporting Code).

?In order to be able to affirm a ?relevant? fact, Aston Martin would have had to present facts that actually more than one-litre of fuel was remaining. The explanation why this requirement could not be met is not relevant to the decision as to whether a breach of the regulations has occurred.?

The FIA also did not accept references that Aston Martin made to teams complying with the purpose of regulations but not the strict wording by having exemptions when parts have been broken or lost in races.

It was on these grounds that the FIA rejected Aston Martin?s request to review the matter.

Following the decision, Aston's CEO & Team Principal Otmar Szafnauer said: ?Sebastian drove brilliantly in Hungary and we are pleased to have been given the opportunity to show significant new evidence that we discovered since the race.

?We felt that the evidence we presented was relevant and demonstrated to the FIA that he should have been reinstated following his disqualification.

?Unfortunately, the FIA took a different view and, despite the fact that that the accuracy of our new evidence was not contested, Sebastian?s disqualification has been upheld on the basis that the new evidence was not deemed ?relevant?. That is disappointing, and we will now consider our position in respect of the full appeal process.?




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Offline elff

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3573 on: August 11, 2021, 07:03:18 PM »
My head hurts from reading all of this.

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Let's Talk F1
« Reply #3574 on: August 11, 2021, 07:15:30 PM »
As one who grew up watching NASCAR but now doesn't watch much other than grassroots racing...what's the point of having fuel left in the tank? Why can't empty just be good enough?
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