Author Topic: P0101 code and limp mode (Read 31878 times)

tazz · « **Reply #50 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:29:26 AM »

I like to try to get to the actual cause of the problem and not just say the blank is the cause. Just like when my son was theething my wife asked the nurse about why his stools were loose "could not really understand why she asked since I had already told her, I guess she did not believe me Lol after being FOOD SAFETY CERTIFIED. The nurse replied the teething will cause that to happen and I replied "It's not the act of teething that causes the issues" it's that the toddler picks up everything and puts it into there mouth and the germs and bacteria on those items affect the toddlers intestinal tract causing the loose stools. The nurse looked at me like Damn you just called me out but she did say that I was totally correct. It was just easier for most people to understand that teething cause the loose stools than to try to explain the WHY.

Critterman · « **Reply #51 on:** July 26, 2012, 11:30:05 AM »

Quote from: Sol Asylum on July 26, 2012, 11:08:57 AM

Another issue with crimp connectors is that often times the connector requires a proper tool to crimp them and each proper tool can run hundreds of dollars. Most techs only have those cheep hardware store crimpers and they are not a good substitute for the right tool. Thus poor connections.

What kind of dealership do you go to that has little baby chickens? Got to get my licks in when I can.

TomatoSoup · « **Reply #52 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:10:03 PM »

Quote from: tazz on July 26, 2012, 11:29:26 AM

I like to try to get to the actual cause of the problem and not just say the blank is the cause.

Jeez. You can't prove the crimps are the cause until you solder the connections and the issue goes away! As to the "why", well the connections are bad: intermittent and/or wire surface compounds causing a non-linear electrical contact (diode effect).

If you solder and the problems goes away (as has happened with many folks on the forums) then it's proved. If the problem DOESN'T go away, then you're no worse off and have to go looking somewhere else - like a bad T/MAP.

tazz · « **Reply #53 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:16:46 PM »

What Im saying is that crimps are not inherently better over solder Period actually came from several electricians mouths. People are giving the wrong info when they say solder is better than crimps NOT TRUE if done correctly they are the SAME. Most electricians use some sort of crimps to connect electrical devices in your house or business NOT SOLDER.
The GM idiots doing the doing the JOB are the Problem NOT the Connections or Connectors. So I guess I sould say if the GM TECHS are doing the install then it's probably a good idea to solder them since they have no idea what they are doing.

tazz · « **Reply #54 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:27:55 PM »

I'm in a technically correct mood right now since I just had a Service writer tell me that oil in the intake/ innercooler pipes keeps everything lubricated. F'n Moron told him it jacks everthing up over time from the cooling capacity of the inner cooler to the MAP sensors that relay the data to the ECM. Sometimes I really wonder if they say things to get a rise out of me or they really believe I'm so gullible to actually believe what they are saying to me like they tell most people.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #55 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:29:26 PM »

Quote from: Critterman on July 26, 2012, 11:30:05 AM

What kind of dealership do you go to that has little baby chickens? Got to get my licks in when I can.

Not the dealership but the hardware store, and in fact the hardware store right across the street from where I work is called Farm and Fleet and they do sell baby chickens from time to time.

Otherwise yeah I misspelled the word, good catch Critter.

Back on topic sort of.

Some engineers will argue that crimp are actually better than solder because the crimp won't cause the flexible wire to become rigid like solder. The idea is that if the wire can't flex it might break. I have also heard the solder can lead to corrosion if not done properly and then you will have high resistance in the connection.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #56 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:32:03 PM »

Quote from: tazz on July 26, 2012, 01:27:55 PM

I'm in a technically correct mood right now since I just had a Service writer tell me that oil in the intake/ innercooler pipes keeps everything lubricated. F'n Moron told him it jacks everthing up over time from the cooling capacity of the inner cooler to the MAP sensors that relay the data to the ECM. Sometimes I really wonder if they say things to get a rise out of me or they really believe I'm so gullible to actually believe what they are saying to me like they tell most people.

Well then technically he is right it does keep everything lubricated. The problem is you don't want all those things lubricated.

TomatoSoup · « **Reply #57 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:32:39 PM »

Quote from: tazz on July 26, 2012, 01:27:55 PM

I'm in a technically correct mood right now since I just had a Service writer tell me that oil in the intake/ innercooler pipes keeps everything lubricated. F'n Moron told him it jacks everthing up over time from the cooling capacity of the inner cooler to the MAP sensors that relay the data to the ECM. Sometimes I really wonder if they say things to get a rise out of me or they really believe I'm so gullible to actually believe what they are saying to me like they tell most people.

Yep. Not only all that, but oil vapor in the intake air causes detonation (knocking). That's even worse - it can destroy the engine (or at the very least cause the ECM to back off and reduce your power).

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #58 on:** July 26, 2012, 06:37:50 PM »

Quote from: tazz on July 26, 2012, 01:27:55 PM

I'm in a technically correct mood right now since I just had a Service writer tell me that oil in the intake/ innercooler pipes keeps everything lubricated. F'n Moron told him it jacks everthing up over time from the cooling capacity of the inner cooler to the MAP sensors that relay the data to the ECM. Sometimes I really wonder if they say things to get a rise out of me or they really believe I'm so gullible to actually believe what they are saying to me like they tell most people.

A tech told you oil in your intake keeps things lubricated? What's it lubricating? Air?

What an idiot.

I can't believe you didn't believe him

Arabas · « **Reply #59 on:** July 27, 2012, 02:32:20 AM »

i have heard several techs sayong that a little bit of oil in the intake keep things lubricated..
i believe either this is a bad perception going from generation to generation or it simply applied to older carburator engines, with not good lubricated technology and also set to run very rich in fuel.
on modern engines, oil in the intake is not a good thing as already said

WWI Flying Ace · « **Reply #60 on:** August 28, 2012, 05:46:29 PM »

Sorry for the long wait…its been an odyssey, but the speed shop found the issue!
My mechanic turned me on to a shop he knew that had cracked some really tough cases before, so I went to see them. Behe Performance, in Beltsville, MD. They had 3 racing Porches on dynos, a Ferrari Testarosa, a nice resto mod Chevelle, a nice Corvette, and…here is a really rare set, two (2) Kaiser Darins! (They only made those in 1954 and they made less than 500…and there were 2 in this shop in perfect shape! Talk about rich boys toys!) So, I figured they would be nice to my baby. And they were! For the Solstice they had to rule out a bunch of stuff. It turned out that it was a mechanical engine problem with carbon gumming up the valves. GM has found that their direct injection engines’ valves carbon up (see the header from the GM write up below...if someone tells me how I will be happy to attach it in PDF form [EDIT: ELFF had me email the PDF to him and it is attached below. Thanks ELFF!]), which causes fuel trim issues, hard starting when cold, and misfires, etc. The carbon is clogging the valves when cold, so it has hard starts and runs like crap at first. Then as it heats up in a few minutes, the valves can close better so it seems to smooth out. Meanwhile, the sensors are finding a different “issue” every day, as the valves are always gummed up with varying degrees of carbon from day to day, meaning it is always adjusting the mixture to accommodate the varying degree of “crappy running”, and sometimes just going into limp mode to protect itself. That is why the limp mode was not all the time, and also why it ran worse to better to worse from day to day. GM makes a good top engine cleaner that other manufacturers use too…when carbon most likely big issue. The chemical cleaner/solvent goes into an intake on the hot engine to soak, sits 2 hours, then they start engine and run it a ton. If it didn’t work, they said a valve job was the only alternative. They ran the solvent through, and then spent a while on the dyno and IT IS FIXED! Behe performance, for anyone in the Washington/Baltimore area…they are SUPERB! As John Behe the owner said, “this is the kind of issue you could throw parts at for a long time because it is so variable, and manifests so differently from day to day, and still you would not fix the issue”. They also soldered the wires on the GMPP kit, just for good measure (they did that a couple days before the solvent and it didn’t correct the issue, but I’m glad it is done too…one less thing to worry about). With the dyno work after the solvent clean, it is at 256 HP @ 5000 at the wheels, and 297 ft lbs @ 3600 at the wheels! Car runs like a top again…I am a very happy camper!
They gave me the PDF too but I don't know how to attach it on this forum. But I cut and pasted the header info below: “07-10 Pontiac Solstice GXP” is the oldest model year on the list. This is something that might be causing your issues if you are having this problem. They said to maintain as long as possible I should use Lucas fuel injector cleaner once a month from here on, and then of course I will need that valve job someday…but many tens of thousands of miles from now. I’m at 123,000 now so that will be a ways off I hope!

#PIPS029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On
The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust
Valves
Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS
2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline
2009 - 2012 Buick Enclave
2009 - 2012 Buick Lacrosse
2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Traverse
2009 - 2012 GMCAcadia
2009 Saturn Outlook
2010 - 2012 Cadillac SRX
2010 - 2012 Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox
2010 - 2012 GMCTerrain
With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
2.0 (RPO LNF)
2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK)
2.8L (RPO LAU)
3.0L (RPO LF1)
3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

elff · « **Reply #61 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:16:54 PM »

I PM'd you my email address.
If you email me the PDF I will get it attached for you

FYI If you had mentioned misfires somewhere, I would have chimed in with this. It's an issue on all DI cars. BMWs even have a procedure where they use chopped up walnuts to clean this up.
I recently used SeaFoam Aerosol on mine to help clean it up. I shot it in via the Throttle body elbow.
The Fuel injector cleaner actually wont help with the carbon build up as our engine are Direct Injection and the fuel does not pass by the intake valves. It will keep the injectors clean though

elff · « **Reply #62 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:30:20 PM »

Got it
The official Bulletin is attached

WWI Flying Ace · « **Reply #63 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:36:49 PM »

Thanks Elff! I hope this helps someone else out there...the issue was driving me crazy but my car is 100% (and better) now, and I am very happy.

elff · « **Reply #64 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:38:41 PM »

I think more people are going to start running into this.

The DIY person can use the following occasionally without having to go a dealer.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-spray.html

I am glad to hear your car is running like a champ again. The exotic car tour you got at that shop almost makes it worth the hassle. Those are some nice cars you listed!!!!!

baconbits · « **Reply #65 on:** August 28, 2012, 08:35:41 PM »

On the topic of crimp connectors .. http://www.nationalstandardparts.com/multilink.html ..we used these on RR turbines and never had a problem with ether a bad connection or brittle solder joints...always good to have in the tool box...glad you found the true cause of the problem...

tazz · « **Reply #66 on:** August 28, 2012, 10:15:14 PM »

What do you know Ive been doing it right with the Sea Foam by connecting a hose to the vacuum nipple on the intake manifold and letting it S-L-O-W-L-Y slurp up the SF from a small mason jar. As long as you don't just stick the hose down in the jar of SF the chance of hydrolocking the engine is alsmost nil.

tazz · « **Reply #67 on:** August 28, 2012, 10:23:55 PM »

Also with our DI engines I don't think you can use the J-35800-A tool effectively as that tool connects to the schrader valve on the fuel line so you either have to spray it into the TB like Elff has done or introduce it into the nipple on the intake mani the way I have done.
Not sure which way gets to the ports better and more evenly but I would almost think spraying into the TB Good job Elff.

Arabas · « **Reply #68 on:** August 29, 2012, 02:47:27 AM »

glad you solved it WWI Flying Ace.
one question, how can the valves get carbon built on them? running too rich? bad gas? starting and stoping the engine before it gets warmed up?

spoolin · « **Reply #69 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:55:54 AM »

Quote from: Arabas on August 29, 2012, 02:47:27 AM

glad you solved it WWI Flying Ace.
one question, how can the valves get carbon built on them? running too rich? bad gas? starting and stoping the engine before it gets warmed up?

Since the engine is direct injection there is no gas hitting the back of the valves to wash off any deposits. The build up would come from the PCV system, valve timing by the manufacturer to create an EGR cycle, things like that.

This is a known issue with VW/Audi and the direct injection BMW/Mini engines. BMW/Mini has a service where they actually remove the intake manifold and blast the the valves and intake ports with walnut shells to remove the build up.

Here's a good thread on another GM forum to read through.
http://www.gmsportcompact.net/forums/showthread.php/5367-CARBON-BUILDUP-IN-LNF-thread-for-solutions-and-shared-insight-from-other-places

HotScott · « **Reply #70 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:48:43 AM »

With all of that said, is there any recommended product or something that we can use to help reduce the build up? How did the performance shop fix it? did they spary something directly into the intake?

elff · « **Reply #71 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:53:15 AM »

I answered that above

Quote from: elff on August 28, 2012, 06:38:41 PM

I think more people are going to start running into this.

The DIY person can use the following occasionally without having to go a dealer.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-spray.html

I am glad to hear your car is running like a champ again. The exotic car tour you got at that shop almost makes it worth the hassle. Those are some nice cars you listed!!!!!

Your other option is to bring it to a dealer and let them us the GM version of this which is detailed in the PDF I attached.

Sly Bob · « **Reply #72 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:41:25 AM »

Thank goodness I've never had this issue. As stated in the TSB that Elff so gratiously posted, it's recommended to always top tier gas in the car.

Out of curiousity WWI Flying Ace, were you using top tier gas in your car before this happened?

tazz · « **Reply #73 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:47:09 AM »

I must have had great results with the Seafoam since when they did my engine and replaced the rings they did not say anything about the valves. They just would not slap the Head back on without cleaning them would They?

WWI Flying Ace · « **Reply #74 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:06:25 AM »

Quote from: HotScott on August 30, 2012, 09:48:43 AM

How did the performance shop fix it? did they spary something directly into the intake?

I believe so. They followed the GM techincal service writeup to the letter.

Quote from: Sly Bob on August 30, 2012, 10:41:25 AM

Out of curiousity WWI Flying Ace, were you using top tier gas in your car before this happened?

Indeed. Every fill up. Always have. I went to the top tier gas url once I got the TSB from the speed shop and checked to be sure, and the stations I use are all there. And only premium gas at those stations, ever.

I think the unusual part about my car compared to others is probably that it is my DD and it has so many miles by comparison to many Solstices and Skys...I'm at 123,000. I've always kept up with the oil changes and the reccomended maintenance, and only ever used the best gas avaiable at the best stations, but I still had the issue.

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Author Topic: P0101 code and limp mode (Read 31878 times)