Topic: Hahn technical support for BOV

[JoshMcMadMac]

Wrote to Hahn using the tech email provided on their website two days ago.  Received an email back from sales just now directing me to the webpage with the tech email address.  This is not looking promising.

[elff]

Josh

Just send Bill Jr a PM on this forum
or post in his Sponsor section.
Other option is to send SkyBaby a note so she can let Bill know.
Or
Call. 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Quick response this time:

Joshua,

Based on your reply, we've now also searched email for the email you allude to, but to no avail.

They cannot find the email that they originally responded to?   

[JoshMcMadMac]

Apparently since I do not have an invoice from over two years ago I am shit out of luck for tech support.  I cannot even get them to tell me if they sell replacement springs.

I might try bastardizing it with a custom spring.  Otherwise I guess I have to buy a Synapse.

[elff]

Id send a note to Bill Jr. 

[JoshMcMadMac]

elff was right, I should have just called.  Now I am just disappointed and disgruntled after having to witness the unpleasant, pompous side of Mr. Hahn.  I enjoyed his products a whole lot more yesterday when I still held him to a higher standard.

[Sol Asylum]

So did you finally call or what?

Critter that's just wrong, everyone knows elves don't need to be suspended that high off the ground.

[SkyBaby]

Hey all! Aubrey here!!!   Bill is very busy in the plant for the rest of the afternoon training some employees on a machine but he will be here later to 'fill in' the rest of the story. SkyBaby

[elff]

That's the only difference between Josh's setup and my setup.
We also have the same tuner Terminator2.

The 2871 primarily has been installed with a Synapse BOV and in at least 10 cases that I personally know of has no issues.  Gasngo stated that he swapped the Synapse for the Hahn BOV to eliminate the same issue Josh is having.

This is why I am personally curious as to what range of PSI is the HAHN BOV rated to handle?

[JoshMcMadMac]

I was swapping out the home router last night, so this is my first chance to respond.  I did have the opportunity to skim through the diatribe that Mr. Hahn originally posted.  It should be noted that it was NOT the actual email chain, but his interpretation of it and there were several aspects that were slighted to his favor.  Not that it matters, but I figured I would mention it since he is the one who aired it out there.  As such, since he did do that and many of you saw it, I will make the email available to anyone who requests it.  I was not planning on doing that, as I did not think it was fair to Hahn...but again, he made it available.  I was content to with my small point venting my displeasure, but now feel obligated to at least respond to some extend.

I would like to clarify what I can.  From what I can see the last few posts Mr. Hahn posted are accurate; he did NOT ignore me, and he did not directly tell me he would not help.  However, the issue was not primarily over the silly form requirement; had it been articulated from the beginning that their system requires a form to proceed with technical support of any kind, I would have done so without voicing my personal opinion of how stupid it was.

Clif Notes of what happened:
- I went to the Hahn website to get contact information.
- The sales@ email address is readily available.  Going to their tech support page provides the tech@ email address, which I emailed with my questions.
- It took two days to get a response.  I understand that there can be a backlog, so that initially did not bother me.
- The response came from the sales@ email, NOT the tech@ email I sent the message to.  This first response I received, coming from sales@, told me that I needed to contact tech support and provided the webpage...which is what I had originally done!  There was NO mention of the form, which I now know in retrospect was the intent of Mr. Hahn.
- This is when I became agitated, as what was presented to me was circular logic: email tech@, get response from sales@ directing me to email tech support, etc.  I sent a terse response that they had just responded to my email from tech support.
- I was informed that they could not find the form.
- I told them I had not completed the form, as I just wanted BOV information from a tech person instead of a sales person.  None of the information on the form was pertinent to my inquiry.
- I was informed that individuals who bought used Hahn parts and contacted Hahn for information were  "unscrupulous" and were the reason they needed to verify an invoice number and that I am indeed the original owner.
* This really, really annoyed me.  For any business to say that asking questions about a product without owning it (AND being the original owner!) is completely amoral astounded me.  I know the word "unscrupulous" gets overused, but one needs to understand the very strong implication it has; it implies that an individual has absolutely no moral or ethical fiber!  All for asking a question?? *
- I provided pictures of the BOV as an alternative means of proving myself, and filled out the form.  I still do not understand why I have to prove that I own something to ask a question about it, and I still think that the form was unnecessary for telling me about adjustability of your product.  I voiced this in an unhappy manner throughout the following emails.
- All of this nonsense, and unpleasant back and forth, just for Mr. Hahn to tell me that he did not have the answers anyway, that I needed to wait to hear back from the tech department.  A short time later I was emailed again by Mr. Hahn, this time informing me that the tech department had contacted the supplier and determined that no other springs are available.

As I said back before this blew up, I was (and am) disappointed in the pompous attitude I was greeted with for asking a relatively simple question that was intended to lead to a relatively simple sale, assuming they had different springs.  I am also very disappointed in the way support appears to be handled in general.  I can understand not devoting hours of time to someone who bought a piecemeal system and has bastardized it into their own creation.  Not giving a customer the benefit of the doubt and answering simple inquiries because you deem it "unscrupulous" I cannot understand.

Mr. Hahn, in your initial response (the one that was too long for me to read thoroughly!), you made many personal statements.  It sounds like you have a lot going on, and I want to encourage you to take some time for yourself.  I think, or more so hope, that your attitude in our email exchange is driven by stress and concern for your wife.  Understandable, but unacceptable as a business owner...especially in a customer service centric business.  I can relate to how tough it can be to put it all aside and not let it fester into your job, but that is a skill we all have to spend our lives trying to master.  I truly, honestly hope that you discover the source of the ailments your wife is suffering and that it is quickly, easily resolved.  That is an overwhelming feeling, not knowing, that I can also relate to.

Best of luck to you, your family, and your business!

[Bill Hahn Jr]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to take some of your time to address this situation. 

First off, thank you Josh for your compassionate response where Aubrey is concerned.  Despite your apparent frustration with our Technical Support system and its execution in your case, that's very nice of you to offer.  She's been very agitated watching this situation unfold, despite my imploring her that it's an occasional and somewhat inevitable part of interacting with the public, and that we'll learn and improve from it.  She will appreciate your kind wishes.

As to the unpleasantness, I think we've identified some areas of improvement that should make future inquiries much more pleasant, which with any luck at all, will also enable us to not come off as pompous.  That's my goal, anyway! 

I'd ask that anyone interested in this subject, particularly if they are interested enough to also add comment, please read this and the following posts in complete detail, for there's a lot of information to absorb if one is to have a truly effective view of our internal Technical Support processes and intent.

Here at Hahn RaceCraft, we've been scrutinizing our Technical Support system at great length, analyzing what went wrong in this instance, and emphasizing action on what we can do better in the future as a result. I should point out that this Technical Support system has been contentedly humming along in its current iteration for years, during which time, it has successfully processed thousands of requests for product help, while also assisting us to develop a comprehensive database of technical information and customer support records.  In that regard, it's worked magnificently, and precisely as planned.  However, we've now been able to identify some areas of potential improvement, which I will deifine and outline below.

I'm going to break this up into three following posts:

1.  Synopsis of Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support approach
2.  Information regarding this support instance that went awry
3.  Reaction and revisions in Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support procedure going forward

[Bill Hahn Jr]

1.  Synopsis of Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support approach

Please allow me to begin by offering a synopsis of how our Technical Support system works, and the motivations behind its intent and operation.

There are basically two methods in which a Technical Support ticket can be initiated.  In the most common one, which I'll call Method 1,  an inquiree accesses the "Contact Us" portion of our website, where by clicking Technical Support they will land on the following page (please have a click for a look):

http://turbosystem.com/New_Folder/Tech%20support.htm

As you can see, this page offers a brief snippet of info as to our general Technical Support approach, as well as a series of informative fields to fill out that begin the support process.  It also requests some information as to proof of purchase, whether purchased from a dealer of Hahn RaceCraft products, or directly from us.  More on this in a moment.

The second method commonly used is to email tech@turbosystem.com, to which we will reply with the following automatic response if the Technical Support form is not already included:

Hello,

In order to submit a Technical Support request, please click on the link below:

Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you.


The link in the above automatic reply takes one to the same Technical Support webpage as outlined in Method 1, with the same instructions and Technical Support Request form.

Intentions of Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support System

As a company that's been in business almost 25 years, we have a lot of product out there, and a lot of exposure too.  Our primary product during this time has been complete (and complex!) turbocharging systems, sometimes comprising hundreds of separate parts, such as used on a normally-aspirated vehicle to convert it to turbocharging.   We've shipped many thousands of these turbosystems in this time, with a pleasingly large degree of this product still in use in some iteration or another!  However, there are two potential downsides to this much presence and exposure in our complete turbosystem markets:

1.  Less scrupulous "do-it-yourselfers" began to pump us for technical information that they were using to make their own mix n' match combinations of turbosystem parts work.  In this form of support fraud, they'd misrepresent what they had as genuine Hahn, and gain free technical insights from us as to how they might make all their individually sourced parts come together.  For some time, we were able to essentially look the other way on this, for we did have the people to cover it, and it had not yet developed into a problem worthy of further attention.  However, as this increased over time, it did become a drain on our resources which we ultimately were forced to deem as unacceptable.  Much to our chagrin, word on the street was that Hahn was the place to go to get free information to finish such DIY turbosystem projects. 

As many companies have also had to, we did some belt-tightening during the recent recession, and decided that free info to non-Hahn customers had to stop, for not only was it taking our staff away from more important duties, it was essentially giving away for free that which our paying customers have paid good money to access.

2.  More and more over time, with many thousands now out there, our complete turbosystems were being dismantled, removed, resold, reinstalled and in many instances, also greatly modified from the original configurations and specifications.  Supporting such second-hand installations was nigh impossible from a remote standpoint, for in most all cases, the new owners had no idea how the system was originally configured, and we may or may not be able to remotely determine what may have been altered in these second-hand iterations.  Our preferred approach in such second-hand purchases is that the entire turbosystem come back to us for reconditioning and inspection, in which we can positively assure the results Hahn systems are noted for.  Some customers see the benefit of this route, and do pursue it with us.

Actions taken

In order to effectively address these concerns, we needed a comprehensive and specific Technical Support system, one which kept out the cheaters, and also enabled us to interface effectively with altered second-hand installations.  We also wished to institute an initial process which would address and answer the bulk of the most common questions needed for us to hit the ground running right off the bat with a new support request.  Such was born our current Technical Support system.

Addressing Technical Support Fraud

In our system, an inquiree is asked to provide some form of proof-of-purchase in order to qualify for support.  This can take any of many forms,  the two most common (those requested on our Technical Support Request form) from an invoice number (if purchased directly from us) to a copy of an invoice if purchased form one of our dealers.  Should an inquiree be unable to provide either, we can look their purchase up in our database for verification, or we can contact their selling dealer for same.

This verification/proof-of-purchase approach has worked immensely well to prevent support fraud, for not only does it stop those who would try to circumvent it via lying, for they are unable to provide proof...it also has the added benefit of stopping others before they even try to defraud us: when they see the system at the outset, they don't even try.

In instances of a valid claim, wherein an actual customer maintains that they'd like to get our help, but cannot satisfy any of the above requirements, we do have other methods of continuing without same.  One includes our request that photos of the involved component(s) be provided, photos which can usually be helpful in other ways as well. 

Suffice to say, if it's a real and valid claim, we have many ways to make it happen.  If it's not, the fraudulent inquiree will typically drift off and stop trying once they realize we're sticking to our guns.

Supporting second-hand product and installations

This is a tricky area, for as I mention above, it's impossible for us to ensure a complete and completely functional system has been procured in such a used purchase.  We provide Technical Support as a service to our brand-new product purchasing customers, and we perceive it as an obligation to ensure that the subsequent installation and results/quality of such new product or turbosystem are up to high Hahn standards.   We do not perceive this obligation as perpetual, nor inherent to any and all subsequent second-hand acquisitions of same product or systems.  Many of the items we offer can last for many years, and pass through many hands in that time.  So what do we do with such used or second-hand inquiries?

First, we make sure the second-hand owner understands our policy, and to date, all have.  We offer them the opportunity to purchase complete, detailed (sometimes up to 50 pages) installation manuals for turbosystems, offered for no profit at our cost, and we provide detailed parts lists for their convenience in understanding what they may be missing, or might need to order from us to complete their used purchase.  We offer reconditioning and rebuild services for product that needs attention as well.

We also gently point them towards providers of local turbosystem expertise, for no one is better suited to assist with such a used system than a technician who can actually view it in the flesh in its current iteration, and react to it in person.   We can only do so much from thousands of miles away in light of the limitations of telephone and email support.

Overall, if we're convinced its a genuine Hahn product, we won't just leave them hanging...simple questions can be answered, but deep, detailed diagnosis we are reticent to get involved in, if only due to how the second-hand system or product may have been bastardized and modified.  If we can sense they are a layman who may be in too deep, we'll again gently prompt them to find a local technician, who we will offer is welcome to get back to us with more specific technical diagnostic information.  We also offer paid technical support for those who have purchased second hand, but would still like to access our deep knowledge base to assist in correcting their car's particular problem(s).

Overall, this system has worked very well for years, but recently, we had an instance where some of our policies and processes didn't suit the situation, and misunderstandings ensued on both ours and the inquiree's part.  I'll elaborate on that next.

[Bill Hahn Jr]

2.  Information regarding this support instance that went awry

Essentially, we have identified two areas of primary concern in this particular support inquiry, definable as "what went wrong", which have encouraged action to revise and improve our policies accordingly:

1.  Should an inquiree not fully understand what we are trying to achieve when we provide links and related info pointing them at the Technical Support procedure and data fields, and we can subsequently sense frustration creeping in, we're not going to stand pat and keep trying to explain.  We will instead decisively move in a different direction, as I outline in our revisions in the next post.

2.   Our efforts to explain and therefore justify our Technical Support policies' general motivations and history can apparently be misinterpreted by some as a backhanded allegation of possible support fraud.  As this is not our intention, we'll react differently as outlined next.

Once the ball was rolling, we did obtain within a short time the Technical Support answers being sought, via calling our suppliers and installing shops.  We perfomed these tasks and executed the Support request within just a couple of hours at that point.  This part went well, even if the items above did not.

Next I will review the changes we're implementing as a direct result of what we learned.

[Bill Hahn Jr]

3.  Reaction and revisions in Hahn RaceCraft Technical Support procedure going forward

I've always maintained that perception is everything...that one can be as right as reign, but that if the perceptions are otherwise, it simply won't matter.  That really applies in this case, both in the initial incident, as well as in the immediate post-incident actions.  While we meant well, we dropped the ball in some critical areas.  Here are the changes to our policy, effective immediately:

1.  Should we receive an email at Technical Support requesting data that can be readily supplied by our Sales Department, we'll now immediately kick the ball to them, thus simply avoiding even our simple documentation requirements for Technical Support. 

Josh's email was to Technical Support, and did appear to pose a technical question: Why is my Hahn BOV "fluttering?".  As such, we treated it as a Tech Support request, and quite naturally we began our typical process.  However, a sub-question was about spring availability, which could easily have been a Sales function instead.  With all due respect, this particular inquiry did somewhat straddle the line between the departments, but as it was initially submitted to Tech, we treated it as such, with the attendant procedure.  Next time, simple stuff like this gets sent right off to Sales, and if in working with the inquiry, they determine it is in fact a Technical Support issue, they can refer it back to Tech.

2.  In the past, we had an auto-reply that emails to Technical Support's email addy would instantly receive.  It directed the inquiree to the correct webpage to initiate their Support process.   What was very good about this: it enabled folks to get a leg up on the process, saving time and adding efficiency for all via encouraging them to complete their Technical Support data form right away, had they not already done so. I've learned that IT equipment updates in the interim have apparently rendered this particular program inactive.  I can see now that it worked very well, so we're going to return to this auto-reply approach to keep the ball rolling on future Support inquiries.

3.  Clearly, even though links and info are sent to customers in our first replies, they appear to not be have been sufficiently detailed.  That being said, we're going to add verbiage that spells this process out more specifically for future support inquiries.

4.  Our salespeople do double-duty as technical support, and vice versa, thus the occasional blending of the sales and tech email accounts, which are both accessible in the same program.  We'll avoid confusion in the future by keeping the two email addresses distinctly devoted to their respective departments.

5.  Under no circumstances will we again attempt to justify or explain the motivations behind our Technical Support system's methods, for we now realize that such an explanation can be misconstrued as a backhanded accusation of fraud.  If someone does not "get it" right away, we're moving right to point number 6:

6.  Most importantly of all, and this is The Big One: should we sense that for whatever reason a new support inquiree is not readily complying with or understanding our process (for any of a number of possible reasons, whether it be confusion, reticence, frustration, lack of available documentation, or any other reason)...in other words, should we see a potentially frustrating volley of emails with no actual forward movement evident as happened here...we will IMMEDIATELY request the inquiree's phone number.  We'll then call the inquiree, fill out the Technical Request form via asking them the questions within, and further clarify their needs, then we will get the ball rolling on this end.   Never again will we let someone simmer in exasperation.  It's our goal to get them the assistance they need, and we now realize that adding some flexibility in our approach is the only way we can 100% assure that this goal will always be met.

 
I've been ruminating on this entire experience for days now, and I am confident that these changes in our approach will prevent a repeat.  I'm deeply sorry for any agitation this incident has caused, to Josh or any of you.  However, I am confident that I have learned from it, and that my company will benefit from it, so it was not all for naught.  My best to all of you!

Boost Regards,
Bill Hahn Jr.

[elff]

6.  Most importantly of all, and this is The Big One: should we sense that for whatever reason a new support inquiree is not readily complying with or understanding our process (for any of a number of possible reasons, whether it be confusion, reticence, frustration, lack of available documentation, or any other reason)...in other words, should we see a potentially frustrating volley of emails with no actual forward movement evident as happened here...we will IMMEDIATELY request the inquiree's phone number.  We'll then call the inquiree, fill out the Technical Request form via asking them the questions within, and further clarify their needs, then we will get the ball rolling on this end.   Never again will we let someone simmer in exasperation.  It's our goal to get them the assistance they need, and we now realize that adding some flexibility in our approach is the only way we can 100% assure that this goal will always be met.

I think this is the key part that was missing last week and can attest to it being a necessary part of any support organization. 
Sometimes the process of information gathering fails.  A Phone call will make the customer feel like the company cares and really wants to help.
Even if your answer is "Sorry, it can't  do that"  If you called, it shows you made the effort.

Good Luck with all of this and I apologize for my frustration in the original dialog.