Topic: And so it begins, Starting a moderate build would like input

[tritan3]

The story:  My gf Jessie chose a RL over her other choice the 350z after some test drives last summer and has been extremely happy with this decision ever since (except for all the speed camera tickets).  She grew up in a racer family and I'm an engineer and a motor head and well I can't help myself so we discussed a build.... Toxic on the other forum totaled his car (Sorry man) and after some quick texts and a price I bought off of him his Dejon turbo kit and exhaust.  Merry Xmas baby

So as it stands now: "Rossi" 07 Saturn Sky RL, Dejon CAI and intercooler pipes, HKS ssqv bov on a greddy flang (she likes HKS "Chirp" better than the Greddy RZ I put on there first), solo shorty mach exhaust.  Opel GT front grill, HIDs in the projectors.   

Soon,  Dejon 5557b Percision turbo kit (just the exhaust manifold adaptor, down pipe, turbo and the two in and out pipes I purchased from Dave at Dejon because Toxic didn't have them) 

Question one, I paid a little more for an anti-surge pipe which looks to me like a giant boost leak that will confuse the MAF sensor, but I didn't want surge and figured I could always plug it... any idea if this is a gimmik or will actually give some benefit (pics below from Dejon's website)

I've only tow Kappas I've seen two people running these turbos, a dude out in Cali and Toxic, Toxic used Vince and trifecta (I think the other dude is rocking HPtuners). (Dave says he thought he sold one of these kits). Toxic said he was putting down 420hp when I bought this off of him but I didn't see any dynos so I know to be skeptical.

Our goals:I'd like to see her 330-350 at the wheels with a "safer" tune and without modifying engine internals ,throwing codes, limp modes, ect...   I'm planning on using Vince and buying his cable, I've had some communication with service at WOT. 

Some questions, stock fuel system, I was reading on the HPtuners SS pages and fuel seems to be a big limiting factor on the LNF, I understand this is because of the HP pump and the lack of after market injectors but shouldn't be a problem till around 400hp.... regardless I'd like to upgrade the intank fuel pump to a 255-340, maybe from Walboro, AEM or Aeromotive, thoughts suggestions? is there a good drop in?

Should I find a new MAP sensor?  the GMPP I was told by WOT isn't necessary till 30lbs, but the SS guys always seam to upgrade them for anything past 20, do I need one? Brand where should I get it?

I'm planning my install for first week in January but I was thinking I may ask Vince to give me a tune for the car as she sits now with stock turbo catted/ intake and exhaust, dyno her drive her around and then do the turbo swap for a nice comparison.  Still haven't talked to anyone at Trifecta over the phone but I'll try and get ahold of someone soon.

and please if you're just going to tell the new guy to read the forum for answers please save the flames
     

[tritan3]

http://solstice.dejonpowerhouse.com/edit/1-05-SS-5457B-Kit.jpg
See the recruic anti surge hose I was talking about, any thoughts on the usefulness of this?

RacerX I see is running one of these, advice?

[miller11386]

First, get HPtuners, Not trifecta. Unless you like being down all the time, HPT is your best choice. Vince is not so speedy on his retunes/fixes, so best to be able to look at it yourself. There are tons of tuners who will be able to help you out with HPT and get you setup right.

Also unless that has some sort of blow-off valve in the recirc hose, I wouldnt run it. Its just a giant boost leak from what I am seeing.

The precision is a nice turbo, however its not the best if you ONLY plan to only go to the limits of the stock clutch. (that is your limit on your setup) After that limit, (of about 350-380ftlbs of tq), your next would be the fueling and the pistons (depending on how good your tune is). Also much north of 430tq you will see rod failure.

Goodluck with your build and keep us posted on what you decide!

[cdflint]

Ask RacerX. He is on both forums and recently added the same turbo he bought from Phixious (He bought from Dave direct). I believe he is HP but he had it tuned at an event where GMR was setting tunes so I could be wrong. He also needed to upgrade his clutch too just to throw that out there.

[JoshMcMadMac]

For the power you are looking for the stock fueling is fine.  I would consider the 2871 turbo for that application over the 5557b, though.

[Gentleman Jack]

and please if you're just going to tell the new guy to read the forum for answers please save the flames
     
(Image removed from quote.)

Clearly, you have not read this forum at all. If you had, you would know this isn't that type of place. This forum was created and is managed by people who will not allow it.

With that said:

READ THE FORUM!

Kidding.

While I have no experience with trifecta and therefor could not pass judgement either way, I had Hp tuners and always had lots of folks able to support me.

350-380 is a very attainable number with little more than a partial turbo upgrade, a few bolt ons and some good tuning (and maybe a little corn).  There are pros and cons to all of these ideas as well.

Here are my recommendations:
Assuming the car is in great mechanical shape:

Chassis braces (3)
Tires
Tune
Springs (or coil overs)

Equals: a whole new car. With what you have in parts already and the stock turbo you would be in the 280-290 whp range and have a much better handling car. It will feel like a different car.

Beyond that, you're out of my league.

GJ
Professional Flamer.

[miller11386]

Saturn Sky Redline 352 whp 380 ft lbs Torque

No corn needed. ^^ That dyno is on 93 oct.

Yes stock shocks, stock mani, stock internals and 93 oct. If I had a better clutch, It could have went farther I think, but I was very happy with it. I drove the car for 20k miles on that setup and never destroyed the clutch.

My Mods at that point:
DDM 2871 Turbo, Tune, OCC, A-Pillar, Backbone and Probeam
Upgraded IC
Synapse Synchronic BOV
Dejon IC Pipes
Solo Hi Flow Cat & Street Race Exhaust
Glowshift Gauges
WR Windscreen & Door sills

[elff]

That anti surge pipe won't do anything.

If you are concerned about the MAF readings, you would want to recirculate the blow off from the BOV to a place on the Intake that is between the MAF and the Turbo.
Or
Relocate the MAF to the Driver Side IC pipe, although, in my experience, that didn't really accomplish much.

I vent to Atmosphere with a 2871 turbo and only on occasion when I come to a complete stop do the rpms drop from 800 to about 500.
I never have issues while the car is actually in motion.

I feed it Corn and since I stick with E47 I have not had any Fueling issues
it's tuned via HPT.  Combination of Dave @ DDM and Term 2 who works with DDM.

I needed a new clutch.   

[Kelu]

If you are concerned about the MAF readings, you would want to recirculate the blow off from the BOV to a place on the Intake that is between the MAF and the Turbo.
Or
Relocate the MAF to the Driver Side IC pipe, although, in my experience, that didn't really accomplish much.

The gf wants the sound from HKS which I also have, so BOV recirc is no-no READ THE FORUM elff

I have relocated MAF and after 4hrs of driving and fine calibration of the MAF is better than with stock turbo

330-350 whp can mean many things, for example if you take in consideration a low reading dyno like Westers, that's HUGE power because stock Kappa puts 200-210whp only on his dyno, if is a happy dyno than is very easy to be achieved. I dynoed mine 410-420 but here we have estimated at the flywheel dynos mostly but is very close to happy dynos from US. After 420bhp I hit fuel starvation with pump gas around 5000rpm.

Forget the anti-surge leak, Dejon's kits are one of the first in market and he didn't updated in last years based on new ECU updates from HPT/Trifecta.

MAP you can do with stock ones but GMPP won't hurt and is only one brand: Bosch, place ... create engine depot, a sponsor of this forum.

[elff]

I read that, you will still get the sound, but just not quite as much. But my point was more towards explaining the recirc compared to surge. 
    

The 3 bar sensors do require 2 tables to be updated in your tune.  Not a big deal and it's documented on the HPTuner forum.

[miller11386]

I was on Stock MAP sensors the whole time. I ouldnt upgrade unless you are planning to go past 30lbs of boost! (which would need a built motor)

[tritan3]

Thanks for all the great info guys,  I'll talk to Racer about his tune.  I'm aware the clutch will give up at points north.  I'm a little afraid of HPtuners without someone actually tuning the car for me, Anyone in MD Virginia Delaware PA? I can take it to?  or who can I get maps from?  thnx guys

[Racer_X]

You need to look up a guy named Terminator- he'll tune the 5557b to the max which is about 440rwhp and  420tq (flywheel is over 500hp/tq) 40rty has his contact info. And you boost like the factory setup- the only difference that you certainly need pistons and valve springs!

[1LILNDN]

Ryan ; I just got (2) new 3bar sensors "about a Month ago" from ::         

ShopGMaccessories.com
Shop GM Accessories.com - GM and Ecotec Performance Parts, GM Crate Engines and GM Crate Motors - 800-441-5150


         

[elff]

The beauty of HP Tuners is you dont have to do the tuning yourself.  You can log the car in the scanner. Download your stock tune from the editor, then email both of those to a tuner, he will look at the logs, make changes to the tune and send back a modified tune.
You will then upload that to the car, relog and repeat until you and the tuner get your car........pun time.......nicely Fine Tuned

[old goat]

The beauty of HP Tuners is you dont have to do the tuning yourself.  You can log the car in the scanner. Download your stock tune from the editor, then email both of those to a tuner, he will look at the logs, make changes to the tune and send back a modified tune.
You will then upload that to the car, relog and repeat until you and the tuner get your car........pun time.......nicely Fine Tuned

Lyndon Wester has tuned every car I own and my son owns, that is a 04 GTO, a Solstice GXP and 2 GMC pickups, I have never met the man, he has been tuning my cars since 2003. If I change anything I scan it email the tune usually in 24 hours or less I have a new tune.

[tritan3]

guess, I'll be digging into the engine... supertech valve springs?, anybody got a long block laying around? sounds like I don't need the 3bar map yet?  so no local guys I can take the car to for a dyno

[old goat]

Used to be a good dyno shop in Manassas, they went out of business. I tried a different shop what a bunch of azzz holes. I am still looking. I have HP tuners and am in Manassas, I am no tuner but I know how to do scans and send them to someone who is. Lyndon Wester tuned the fastest stock Cadillac in the world and never saw the car. They did scans sent them to him and he did the tune, 192 MPH from a stock 4 door CTS-V.

[Critterman]

All they dyno shops we used to go to, no longer exist. we all use HPTuners and a mail in tune.