Author Topic: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28  (Read 25035 times)

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Offline SHiNY

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2013, 01:43:21 PM »
Hey, look who's about specs, thank you for sharing ;)
I agree with this and I love about this aspect compared with european "sports cars". This remembers me, Cadillac CTSV vs Audi flagshit sport car R8 with Lambo stolen parts, same time on Nurburing between a saloon half priced that the "luxury sport model".  :lol:

I think you mean flagship ;)

I'm trying to get video of the V8 our friend James took at the NYC auto show yesterday.

He's a walking encyclopedia of car specs. I had to learn something!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2013, 01:50:05 PM »
And what should we call cars that get spanked by grocery getters?

For the life of me, i cant call anything that loses to a Civic a "sports car"

Minis?
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Offline elff

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »
A Mini would not lose.
Definitely not ours
Lighter car
better handling

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2013, 01:54:56 PM »
A Mini won't not lose.

Right so Mini it is.
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Offline elff

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2013, 01:55:44 PM »
I really have no idea what your trying to say

Offline wspohn

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 01:57:01 PM »
I don't think sedan is the right word but I know what he means, sports cars shouldn't be approaching the size of a mid size or larger pickup truck.  Mustangs are the same way.  Insurance companies call them sports cars but they really aren't they're more of a cross between a coupe and a "boat" maybe call them a "Coat."   

I guess I am betraying my age. When I started racing, there were two types of classes in SCCA - sports cars and sedans, and that's the sense I used it in, ignoring the niceties about whether they were coupes, sports sedans, whatever.

The sports car/sedan classification thing could be played from the other side too.  I always admired the attitude of American Motors, reading the SCCA rule book and building a shorter wheelbase two door car they removed the rear seats from to make the SCCA include it in production class.

There are some very fast sedans - look at the modern Cadillacs for one.  But speed doesn't make them sports cars and the Kappas ARE sports cars, and that's where I have the disconnect between what these days passes for a lighter weight good handling two seater and a two ton barge that overcomes avoirdupois with excessively large and powerful engines.  Call me out of date, but that's the way I classify these cars and nothing is going to make me love the two ton titans, nor call them sports cars.

Just a propos the sedan/sports car discussion, part way through my racinf 'career', they merged the two types of classes into mixed GT categories and many of the small sedans turned out to be exceptionally tough competition, mostly because they were fairly light and in many instances quite stiff chassis - the early Rabbits and Datsuns are good examples.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:33:27 AM by wspohn »
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Offline Critterman

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2013, 02:11:18 PM »
So WS what are your feelings on Astins, Jags, and the Bug?  gaty that is?
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Offline wspohn

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2013, 02:30:06 PM »
So WS what are your feelings on Astins, Jags, and the Bug?  gaty that is?

It is my feeling that they are properly spelled 'Aston' and 'Bugatti'.
And that is a whole different discussion about GT cars as opposed to sports cars.
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Offline Kelu

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2013, 02:53:45 PM »
I think you mean flagship ;)

I'm trying to get video of the V8 our friend James took at the NYC auto show yesterday.

He's a walking encyclopedia of car specs. I had to learn something!
I mean what I say!!!
Is the same James which I met last year? Say hello to him from me next time when you meet him.
So from now on you will spent more time with us?  :ghug:

WS: to me, our cars are not real sport cars, Kappa is closer to a GT than a sport car. It is a small boat in stock form and very good for cruising.
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Offline wspohn

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2013, 03:39:27 PM »
WS: to me, our cars are not real sport cars, Kappa is closer to a GT than a sport car. It is a small boat in stock form and very good for cruising.

Kelu, I guess it depends on what you think of as a sports car.

There are almost none of the basic sports cars left - I'd say that the Lotus cars are the only ones that are light, nimble and quick on a winding road the way the sports cars of the past were.  Today the sports cars have bulked up and what used to weigh 2000 lbs. now weighs 3,000, largely due to added impact structures and various features like ECM and such that all add weight.

But I think that a fairly weighty car like the Kappas can still be sports cars, despite the fact that like all cars, the stock specification is a compromise. The suspension settings are too soft and the car weighs to much for me, and perhaps for you, but the modifications are almost trivial - new shock/spring assemblies, new sway bars and some added torsional rigidity and the cars are transformed into what I have to call true sports cars.

The question of whether a sports car can properly have an automatic transmission is one I'll leave for another time as I fear it would again reveal me as a reactionary who believes all sports cars should be manuals.  But then for me, having a sports car is nothing about straight line drag racing and all about how well and how fast it can cover a winding road.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 11:34:47 AM by wspohn »
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
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Recently sold:
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Offline ChopTop

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2013, 03:42:33 PM »
Nice vehicle, overpriced, but nice.  I agree w/WS it's a sports sedan.  Also see it as big GM FU to the very blue-collar people who turned the name into an icon.  It's as if car companies are ashamed of calling a 4-seat vehicle a sedan.  However, I'm sure the underlying reason is financial.  Meaning more units can be sold (and more profit generated) simply by redefining the traditional name.  For awhile I had an issue with classifying 4-seat 911s.  How in the world could a classic sports car that out performs 9/10s of the vehicle on the road possible be a sedan?  I finally decided that when a car manufactures voluntarily agrees to install 4 seats into a body they have also voluntarily agreed to not call it a sports car; regardless of it's performance ability.  Even top tier 4-door performance sedans are now starting to redefine themselves as sports cars & coupes.

Offline LatinVenom

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2013, 05:48:06 PM »
The Z28 is really build for the track and the price is between 60K and 64K.
If you want the 1/4 mile type or red light to red light then the ZL1 is your car.

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Offline Brazen17

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2013, 05:55:31 PM »
The ZL1 is around $60k depending on options.  The Z28 is 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 and looks even better in person than in those pics. I'm not sure on the price. It has no trunk carpet, almost no radio (radio and one speaker) and A/C is optional to keep it lighter.

Three seconds faster at what? IF (big if) it is really 500 bhp then I don't see how it will beat the ZL1 in either 1/4 mile or 0-60. Road coarse yes but straight line? 300 lb weight loss  does not make up for 80 less hp. At least not the way I see it. I Could be wrong though!
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Offline Brazen17

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2013, 06:05:34 PM »
I guess I am betraying my age. When I started racing, therw were two types of classes in SCCA - sports cars and sedans, and that's the sense I used it in, ignoring the niceties about whether they were coupes, sports sedans, whatever.

The sports car/sedan classification thing could be played from the other side too.  I always admired the attitude of American Motors, reading the SCCA rule book and building a shorter wheelbase two door car they removed the rear seats from to make the SCCA include it in production class.

There are some very fast sedans - look at the modern Cadillacs for one.  But speed doesn't make them sports cars and the Kappas ARE sports cars, and that's where I have the disconnect between what these days passes for a lighter weight good handling two seater and a two ton barge that overcomes averdupois with excessively large and powerful engines.  Call me out of date, but that's the way I classify these cars and nothing is going to make me love the two ton titans, nor call them sports cars.

Just a propos the sedan/sports car discussion, part way through my racinf 'career', they merged the two types of classes into mixed GT categories and many of the small sedans turned out to be exceptionally tough competition, mostly because they were fairly light and in many instances quite stiff chassis - the early Rabbits and Datsuns are good examples.

So when these two ton titans run circles around our "nimble" sports cars what then? The ZL1 @ over 2 tons will handle a winding road with better aplomb than our "sports" cars. Not to mention any straight line you could throw at it. That's pretty impressive in most people's book. Just not yours.
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline wspohn

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2013, 06:14:57 PM »
So when these two ton titans run circles around our "nimble" sports cars what then? The ZL1 @ over 2 tons will handle a winding road with better aplomb than our "sports" cars. Not to mention any straight line you could throw at it. That's pretty impressive in most people's book. Just not yours.

Is there precedent for a ZL1 getting faster slalom times than a Kappa on the same course?  That would be a feat.
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Offline SHiNY

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 07:17:12 PM »
Three seconds faster at what? IF (big if) it is really 500 bhp then I don't see how it will beat the ZL1 in either 1/4 mile or 0-60. Road coarse yes but straight line? 300 lb weight loss  does not make up for 80 less hp. At least not the way I see it. I Could be wrong though!

I'm very glad you asked... I went back to my source, 3 seconds per lap...

Courtesy of our Coupe fanatic friend, James.

2014 Camaro Z28 display New York Auto Show


Offline SHiNY

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 07:18:28 PM »
I mean what I say!!!
Is the same James which I met last year? Say hello to him from me next time when you meet him.
So from now on you will spent more time with us?  :ghug:

WS: to me, our cars are not real sport cars, Kappa is closer to a GT than a sport car. It is a small boat in stock form and very good for cruising.

Yes is same James, I will tell him you said hello :)

Offline Brazen17

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2013, 08:54:33 PM »
Thanks! I have read several places that it is faster by three seconds but never what it was faster at.
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline SHiNY

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2013, 09:09:01 PM »
Thanks! I have read several places that it is faster by three seconds but never what it was faster at.

Phew! I'm just glad for once I'm actually right!!! :)

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2013, 01:02:39 AM »
A Honda accord of today will run circles around just about any stock car from the 60s. Straight line, windy road, grocery store, gas line etc.
the definition if a sports car has changed. 1000 pound high reving little engine cars no longer exist because they have no place in today's cars.
Don't get me wrong, I love old cars. But they are total crap compared to today's cars.  Try crashing them. See which you like better.

 
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2013, 01:13:22 AM »
 It had a 325 brake horsepower (242 kW; 330 PS) 4.0 L (3929 cc) V12 engine, a five-speed transmission, fully independent suspension, and disc brakes. Its top speed was rated at 154 mph (248 km/h) and acceleration from zero to 60 mph (97 km/h) took 6.4 seconds.[2] Only 125 were built.


 The 6.6-second scoot to 60 is mighty impressive—it’s 1.3 seconds quicker than that of a last-gen four-cylinder with a manual—and the car covered the quarter in 15.3.

Hmmm. I wonder what is what here.
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Offline elff

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2013, 01:23:22 AM »
I believe I told you the story about my college friend and I surviving a roll in a zephyr.
Its quite the story.
If not, its a great tale for one of our late nights at the Mod Meet
:D

But they are total crap compared to today's cars.  Try crashing them. See which you like better.

Offline Brazen17

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2013, 09:24:11 AM »
A Honda accord of today will run circles around just about any stock car from the 60s. Straight line, windy road, grocery store, gas line etc.
the definition if a sports car has changed. 1000 pound high reving little engine cars no longer exist because they have no place in today's cars.
Don't get me wrong, I love old cars. But they are total crap compared to today's cars.  Try crashing them. See which you like better.

 

Heresy.
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Offline wspohn

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2013, 12:31:42 PM »
It had a 325 brake horsepower (242 kW; 330 PS) 4.0 L (3929 cc) V12 engine, a five-speed transmission, fully independent suspension, and disc brakes. Its top speed was rated at 154 mph (248 km/h) and acceleration from zero to 60 mph (97 km/h) took 6.4 seconds.[2] Only 125 were built.

 The 6.6-second scoot to 60 is mighty impressive—it’s 1.3 seconds quicker than that of a last-gen four-cylinder with a manual—and the car covered the quarter in 15.3.

Hmmm. I wonder what is what here.

Missed the context here - what car are we talking about? If it is my Lambo (fair assumption from the engine configuration and size), you are looking at the wrong model. Mine is the 'S' model with 350 BHP, top end of 162 mph, mid 14s for the 1/4, and 0-60 of 6.2 secs. (which put it on par with a 450 BHP 1970 Chevelle with an LS6 motor).  Built 100 of them.  More aerodynamic than the Kappa so higher top speed despite power no better than a GMPP tuned Kappa.  The acceleration figures are hard to relate to today due to differences in rubber and tire construction. Usually there was around .4-.5 seconds in the 1/4 improvement when you put today's tires on old cars.  In any case these cars weren't really sports cars they were GT cars.

I recall the appearance of the first Transam Camaros in the old days at our local track (in the days before I was old enough to hold a race license myself).  IIRC they were the first cars to adopt 4 wheel disc brakes and the year after they showed up and blew away all the competition still running drums (I think this was around 1969), all the cars had 4 wheel discs.  I recall thinking that the Camaros were the only ones that 'got it' at the time and the rest had to follow along or die.

PS - I guess to be fair, Westwood track had more vertical elevation change than any other on the circuit and a hairpin turn at the end of the long downhill straight, so brakes were probably far more important there than elsewhere. We also had the Nascar boys show up in 1973 and it was almost comical - they'd roar down the long straight at high speed and then tippy-toe around the turn. Anyone recall when they went to discs all round?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:40:33 PM by wspohn »
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently sold:
1969 MGC roadster,
1965 Jensen CV8,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
Bill in BC

Offline Brad Kenny

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Re: New Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »
I ponied up for a Camaro 2SS with the 1LE performance package. Will let you know how it is vs the kappa in about 8 weeks. Awaiting for it to be built... Basically a ZL1 without the supercharge (and 15k cheaper).
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