Topic: Will a GT3076R turbo work on a GXP

[L-N-Fn]

You mite consider GTX3071, a better mach for our engines. A EFR 6758 has almost no lag.

[SKY888]

Im going to contradict some of that
The 2871 on the same fuel is faster than the smaller EFR

are you talking about EFR 6255?  6258? 6758?

when you say faster, do you mean 0-60?  or who will cross 1/4 mile first?

on 1/4 mile.....6758 will outrun an upgraded k04 turbo (2871)

the 6255 and 6258 will be a good match w/ the 2871 turbo upgrade on a 1/4 mile. 


It's unfortunate that Kelu had a very bad experience with EFR turbo.     In the kappa community who uses EFR turbo, are there other people who had some issues with their EFR?   GMtech loves his EFR.  I believe stupidbikerboy also has EFR and don't hear any issues from him.


Its true that Availability is an issue for EFR.  No doubt.   

I love garrett turbos.   But they also have some issues once in a while.    There are no turbo companies out there that is "perfect".   You'll have some weird issues occurring once in a while.

[SKY888]

I forgot to mention GTX turbos which L-N-Fn already mentioned.    Those GTX turbos will spool the exact same time as their GTR turbo counterparts..........but will produce 10% more hp.


if 400whp +++ is really the goal. I think GTX2871r will be the best turbo then!  
 
Quick spooling turbo that will have no issues getting into 400whp+++ territory.
You get both the power you want, and get the quick spool needed for the streets.
Availability is not an issue.


You can also upgrade and use the Tial turbine housing.........they are sexier and smaller in size....... which makes them lighter in weight compared to the garrett turbine housings.  I like using them with my garrett turbos since they offer v-band connection.     No more gaskets needed, and bolts loosening up to worry about.   V-band connection is set-it and forget it


EFR turbos are expensive.   But theres a good reason for that.
GTXr turbos are less expensive than EFR but still a bit pricey still.

[elff]

I understand that all products fail
When an EFR fails, it can mean 6 or more months waiting for a replacement or fix. 
With a garret, a week or two.
I don't use any parts for any application that I cant get replacement parts for. 

I know the 6758 will push more power, but not so much more.  60-100 times for the EFR and 2871 are both under 4 seconds. As such, with all the factors of a good 1/4 mile run, there is no guarantee that the EFR will always win.  It will always be super close and come down to launch, traction and shifting. 
There is a thread on this forum with our 60-100 mile times documented with HPT screenshots.

Ill take mine compared to a 6758 and pocket the additional money and keep the confidence that I can get my setup repaired in a decent amount of time.

[SKY888]

damn.....I'm soooo not up-to-date anymore.

Upon further research at turbobygarrett.com   there are these other smaller GTXr turbos that will spool faster and still get 400whp.

GTX2860r and GTX2863r


about 10 years ago, I used to have the 2860r aka "disco potato" on my other car....those turbos spool crazy fast.   They are very comparable to k04 turbos.

so these newer GTX models such as GTX2860r and GTX2863r will spool like the k04 turbos, but will get higher whp which the OP I believe is looking for.    Fast Spool and 400whp +++

[elff]

The new GTXs are pretty killer.

[SKY888]

I know the 6758 will push more power, but not so much more.  60-100 times for the EFR and 2871 are both under 4 seconds. As such, with all the factors of a good 1/4 mile run, there is no guarantee that the EFR will always win.  It will always be super close and come down to launch, traction and shifting. 

For some people with a split second difference in a 1/4 mile..........2871 upgrade might be more ideal and economical.   Some of them are very happy and content after this upgrade.   But for some, they get bore, and want more.

For some people, who has plans later on, to upgrade their engine internals, and get MORE whp....the 6758 might make more sense.




its tough, engine modifications is so addicting, lol
 people tend to keep wanting more and more whp 


these vendors keep giving us more and more options....and power adders

[SKY888]

The new GTXs are pretty killer.

yup they are!

and lots of different models to choose from.

And they are readily available

[elff]

Its an addiction

Im happy that when i get my car back, its got all the internal and header goodness it will need.
So if I want moar powa
I can go for it.

Apparently the compressor housing for a GTX 2867 is the same size as a 2871.
Thats an interesting possibility

[SKY888]

yeah....I'm excited for you.   I saw that you also changed your tranny to a t56?   that will be nice.

now you can just keep on adding more power...and your t56 tranny and built engine can handle them 

[elff]

I keep forgetting about that. 
The T56 is going to be awesome from a gearing perspective.
1st gear on the stock tranny was worthless once I started using E47

[elff]

Any updates on your build?

[LatinVenom]

It will be interesting if Dave (DDM) would considered a GTX2867r option instead of the 2871?.

[GXP_Matt]

There is one other HUGE downside of the EFRs
Availability
And
They have had some reliability issues compared to the Garret turbos.

If they break, there is no guarantee of you getting a replacement within 6 months. 
This is because Indy keeps buying all of them.

As cool as they sound.
Id take a 2871 kit over an EFR any day of the week
The price difference is the cost of a custom head
Or
Carillo rods and Wisco pistons.

Check again, they are in stock everywhere, and that shouldn't change any time soon.  There also haven't been any reported failures since the chemistry was changed on the turbine wheels after the problems with the first batch (see also 26 cars running the entire Indy 500 with no problems)  The GT28 is old turbo technology and has been in production for a long time, of course they are going to be easier to get.  How many GTX2867r turbos have you seen, and those were announced over a year ago as well...

Regarding the 6258 vs the 2871, you should talk to GMG about their experiences running those two turbos back to back on Bill Ziegler's World Challenge Solstice racecar.  Hint: they aren't using the 2871 any more.  Not everything is about 60-100 runs. 

[gmtech16450yz]

Check again, they are in stock everywhere, and that shouldn't change any time soon.  There also haven't been any reported failures since the chemistry was changed on the turbine wheels after the problems with the first batch (see also 26 cars running the entire Indy 500 with no problems)  The GT28 is old turbo technology and has been in production for a long time, of course they are going to be easier to get.  How many GTX2867r turbos have you seen, and those were announced over a year ago as well...

Regarding the 6258 vs the 2871, you should talk to GMG about their experiences running those two turbos back to back on Bill Ziegler's World Challenge Solstice racecar.  Hint: they aren't using the 2871 any more.  Not everything is about 60-100 runs. 

Hey how'd you know about that? The best part is how DDM handled the situation.

Yeah the 2871 is a great idea for someone's grandmother's car. Anyone else and it's a stupid idea. Oh yeah and elff, how steep was that hill you did your supposed 60-100 times on? Got a dyno sheet? I know what the 2871 is capable of and what kind of power it puts out. More than that, I know what kind of reliability it brings to a motor and the turbo itself, it's not good. Stop spreading bs about how great YOUR 2871 is and how you can't get any EFR's. I can have an EFR in my hand in a day. It's a REAL turbo, not a cobbled together, poorly designed, and just a bad idea turbo. I think I'd rather have Borg Warner doing the machining on a turbo I put on a motor I built than a turbo somebody re-machined by themselves. Blowing a turbo isn't a big deal. Having it take out a motor that's worth $10k or so is.

Like I said, for somebody using their LNF to pick up some Preparation H and their dentures at the pharmacy, it's fine. For REAL use of any amount of hp out of an LNF, it's a bad idea that has been proven to fail under pressure. (get it, "pressure"? lol)

[elff]

I was on a flat ground.  Sorry to disappoint your lame attempt to discredit what my car can do.

So now you, the pusher of 60-100 mile times and proof with HPT logs now wants to throw that away?
How many times did you post up how that's the most important stat. 
Secondly, you can also be quoted a bunch of times about how Dyno's are not a good way or only way to measure performance.

Congrats on Being Hypocritical on 2 counts.

The information I am spreading isn't B.S.  My setup has been awesome and my tuning has been superb.  I am not the only person to have a 2871 kit on their car.  Those other people are very happy with their reliable setups.  It's not a cobbled together poorly designed turbo.  It was put together by people who the automotive world recognizes and trust.
No one can say that the EFR has had good availability.  If that has finally changed awesome.  I however have never said anything bad about the technology.  I used the past tense which was accurate for when they did have the failures. So I have not been spreading misinformation on either front.

Futhermore
Both Dave at DDM and Brian at BNR are highly regarded.  Both have successful businesses that pride themselves on quality, good workmanship, fair prices and customer Service.   

What the  have you done besides blow a ton of hot air, make arrogant posts, whine like a  at times and run away for months because you can't handle other peoples opinions.
Opposite of DDM and BNR
You are regarded as an asshole by many people.


You do this all the time and even did it in this thread.  Your first post is an insult to the OP and you were even wrong on your initial diagnosis. 

I will now await for you to go on a full Book Tirade consisting of
1. How Much money you make
2. How your shit don't stink
3. How you have done this crap 5 million times
4. How Awesome you are
5. How your son can do this in his sleep
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

It will require more than the height of any modern monitor and basically be regurgitation of the same shit you always type. 
A bunch of us just don't care anymore.

GXP_Matt
Good counterpoints and especially your tone.

GMtech
Seriously dude, Get the  Over Yourself.

[gmtech16450yz]

I was on a flat ground.  Sorry to disappoint your lame attempt to discredit what my car can do.

So now you, the pusher of 60-100 mile times and proof with HPT logs now wants to throw that away?
How many times did you post up how that's the most important stat. 
Secondly, you can also be quoted a bunch of times about how Dyno's are not a good way or only way to measure performance.

Congrats on Being Hypocritical on 2 counts.

The information I am spreading isn't B.S.  My setup has been awesome and my tuning has been superb.  I am not the only person to have a 2871 kit on their car.  Those other people are very happy with their reliable setups.  It's not a cobbled together poorly designed turbo.  It was put together by people who the automotive world recognizes and trust.
No one can say that the EFR has had good availability.  If that has finally changed awesome.  I however have never said anything bad about the technology.  I used the past tense which was accurate for when they did have the failures. So I have not been spreading misinformation on either front.

Futhermore
Both Dave at DDM and Brian at BNR are highly regarded.  Both have successful businesses that pride themselves on quality, good workmanship, fair prices and customer Service.   

What the   have you done besides blow a ton of hot air, make arrogant posts, whine like a   at times and run away for months because you can't handle other peoples opinions.
Opposite of DDM and BNR
You are regarded as an asshole by many people.


You do this all the time and even did it in this thread.  Your first post is an insult to the OP and you were even wrong on your initial diagnosis. 

I will now await for you to go on a full Book Tirade consisting of
1. How Much money you make
2. How your shit don't stink
3. How you have done this crap 5 million times
4. How Awesome you are
5. How your son can do this in his sleep
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

It will require more than the height of any modern monitor and basically be regurgitation of the same shit you always type. 
A bunch of us just don't care anymore.

GXP_Matt
Good counterpoints and especially your tone.

GMtech
Seriously dude, Get the   Over Yourself.

csb

[Dave@DDMworks]

Hey how'd you know about that? The best part is how DDM handled the situation.

Yeah the 2871 is a great idea for someone's grandmother's car. Anyone else and it's a stupid idea. Oh yeah and elff, how steep was that hill you did your supposed 60-100 times on? Got a dyno sheet? I know what the 2871 is capable of and what kind of power it puts out. More than that, I know what kind of reliability it brings to a motor and the turbo itself, it's not good. Stop spreading bs about how great YOUR 2871 is and how you can't get any EFR's. I can have an EFR in my hand in a day. It's a REAL turbo, not a cobbled together, poorly designed, and just a bad idea turbo. I think I'd rather have Borg Warner doing the machining on a turbo I put on a motor I built than a turbo somebody re-machined by themselves. Blowing a turbo isn't a big deal. Having it take out a motor that's worth $10k or so is.

Like I said, for somebody using their LNF to pick up some Preparation H and their dentures at the pharmacy, it's fine. For REAL use of any amount of hp out of an LNF, it's a bad idea that has been proven to fail under pressure. (get it, "pressure"? lol)

gmtech16450yz,

I am guessing since Matt works for Borg Warner, he would know about a race team getting a turbo for a racing Solstice, but I am only guessing here.

As for how we handled the situation with GMG, on the only 2871 turbo failure we have ever seen, I believe that it was handled appropriately. Specifically on our website it states "Warranty notes: non-DDMWorks approved tunes may void warranty on turbo". When the turbo was returned to us, there was a couple things we noticed. The first thing we thought was odd, was that they were running a 2.5" exhaust which we found strange for that kind of power level. Also, obviously the broken shaft. So we asked GMG for any kind of tune information or logs of the engine running to try to get a better understanding of what caused this failure. No logs, tunes or any other information could be supplied to us, even after asking several times, but a refund credit was still issued for the turbo as we tend to take anything back, customer is always right. The only comment we would get back was that the tuner had tuned several race cars and knew what he was doing, it was the turbo's fault.

We have installed about 40 of the 2871's here at our location or at events around the country and there have been a lot more then that installed by homeowners or other shops, probably a couple hundred by now.  Out of all of those installed, the 2871 on the GMG car is the only failure that we have ever seen, or even heard of for that matter. So to say they are unsafe and unreliable would be a little bit of a stretch.

I think at this point it is very obvious to anyone that has seen any of your posts that you absolutely do not like the 2871 turbo, and for some reason absolutely do not like us here at DDMWorks. No problem, we realized a long time ago that you can never make everyone happy as much as we try here. If you truly feel that the EFR is the only option someone should choose for an upgrade, unless they are "using their LNF to pick up some Preparation H and their dentures at the pharmacy ", then that is very sad and naive. Someone that seems as smart as you can should be able to understand the other options that are available out there and their place in the market. Not everyone cares about having a 500hp LNF, not everyone wants to install tubular headers to install a turbo, not everyone cares about having the fastest 60-100 times or wants to throw away the downpipe or charge tubes that they already bought, some just want to have a little more fun. Most people that we talk to, just want a little more than the stock turbo can produce and at the same time use the other parts that they have already upgraded. That is the market that the 2871 fills. That is where the 2871 shines. Our current tuned 2871's are putting around 375hp at the wheels on pump 93 without meth, and that is obviously not the most powerful turbo that could be put on the LNF, but for the combination of cost, power, ease of install and reliability, the 2871 has proven itself to be an excellent option for a lot of people, believe it or not.

[GXP_Matt]

Whoa, this blew up fast... Only thing I heard about the GMG car was that they tried the 6258 vs the 2871 and liked the EFR better, now it seems that there is more of a back story I wasn't aware of and I'm sorry I brought that up. 
One thing I can say is that I was curious about the 2871 working in the K04 turbine housing so I overlaid the K04 housing with an approximate model of a GT28 turbine wheel and I didn't see any real issues.  Tongue gap is slightly smaller than stock but that shouldn't be a problem.  The small turbine housing and A/R hurt turbine efficiency and increase P3 by some amount but with the control we have over cam timing that is less of an issue than with most engines.  The advantage is that it retains twin scroll, which the single volute EFR gets rid of.  That makes quite a big difference in effective turbine efficiency.  I've ridden in one of DDM's 2871 cars at an autocross and was very impressed by the turbo response.

[gmtech16450yz]

gmtech16450yz,

I am guessing since Matt works for Borg Warner, he would know about a race team getting a turbo for a racing Solstice, but I am only guessing here.

As for how we handled the situation with GMG, on the only 2871 turbo failure we have ever seen, I believe that it was handled appropriately. Specifically on our website it states "Warranty notes: non-DDMWorks approved tunes may void warranty on turbo". When the turbo was returned to us, there was a couple things we noticed. The first thing we thought was odd, was that they were running a 2.5" exhaust which we found strange for that kind of power level. Also, obviously the broken shaft. So we asked GMG for any kind of tune information or logs of the engine running to try to get a better understanding of what caused this failure. No logs, tunes or any other information could be supplied to us, even after asking several times, but a refund credit was still issued for the turbo as we tend to take anything back, customer is always right. The only comment we would get back was that the tuner had tuned several race cars and knew what he was doing, it was the turbo's fault. This is also when we found out that you were the one that tuned the engine/turbo combination. Since then we have seen a couple tunes from you on other cars and actually had a chance to drive a large turbo upgrade that was tuned by you, and if a similar tune was in the GMG car with the 2871 that was in the other big turbo car, I can understand the failure that we saw in the 2871 that was returned to us. The other large turbo car that was here had an amazing amount of surge and if it was not taken care of, it would obviously destroy that turbo over time also.

We have installed about 40 of the 2871's here at our location or at events around the country and there have been a lot more then that installed by homeowners or other shops, probably a couple hundred by now.  Out of all of those installed, the 2871 on the GMG car is the only failure that we have ever seen, or even heard of for that matter. So to say they are unsafe and unreliable would be a little bit of a stretch.

I think at this point it is very obvious to anyone that has seen any of your posts that you absolutely do not like the 2871 turbo, and for some reason absolutely do not like us here at DDMWorks. No problem, we realized a long time ago that you can never make everyone happy as much as we try here. If you truly feel that the EFR is the only option someone should choose for an upgrade, unless they are "using their LNF to pick up some Preparation H and their dentures at the pharmacy ", then that is very sad and naive. Someone that seems as smart as you can should be able to understand the other options that are available out there and their place in the market. Not everyone cares about having a 500hp LNF, not everyone wants to install tubular headers to install a turbo, not everyone cares about having the fastest 60-100 times or wants to throw away the downpipe or charge tubes that they already bought, some just want to have a little more fun. Most people that we talk to, just want a little more than the stock turbo can produce and at the same time use the other parts that they have already upgraded. That is the market that the 2871 fills. That is where the 2871 shines. Our current tuned 2871's are putting around 375hp at the wheels on pump 93 without meth, and that is obviously not the most powerful turbo that could be put on the LNF, but for the combination of cost, power, ease of install and reliability, the 2871 has proven itself to be an excellent option for a lot of people, believe it or not.

Wow. Ummm hey Dave, you better back up and retract just about everything you said about me here because it's out and out slander and lies. You've never seen my tunes, I can guarantee that. You may have seen a tune that was based off things I've posted or given to people or used through other vendors, but I guarantee you've never seen an actual tune straight from me. I never tuned the GMG Solstice with the 2871, so that right there is a lie. That turbo was junk before I ever worked on the car. I REALLY don't think you want me to elaborate in public what happened with that car and the tuner that was working on it before me. Let's just not go there.

Retract the false statements you made about me and we'll just drop this whole thing. I absolutely will not stand for anyone, especially a vendor, posting lies and false information about me in a public forum.

[Dave@DDMworks]

Wow. Ummm hey Dave, you better back up and retract just about everything you said about me here because it's out and out slander and lies. You've never seen my tunes, I can guarantee that. You may have seen a tune that was based off things I've posted or given to people or used through other vendors, but I guarantee you've never seen an actual tune straight from me. I never tuned the GMG Solstice with the 2871, so that right there is a lie. That turbo was junk before I ever worked on the car. I REALLY don't think you want me to elaborate in public what happened with that car and the tuner that was working on it before me. Let's just not go there.

Retract the false statements you made about me and we'll just drop this whole thing. I absolutely will not stand for anyone, especially a vendor, posting lies and false information about me in a public forum.

I went ahead and removed the section about you tuning the GMG car, I was told that you did the tuning on that particular install, but if you say you had nothing to do with the tune at all, I trust you and will remove it. I also removed the section about the other tunes, since the owners of those cars are not on this forum, but that is what I was told, once again if you say that you have not done any tuning for any cars that we would have ever seen here or had the chance to read, once again I trust you, but that was the information given to me by the owners of those particular cars.We also have nothing to hide about the GMG 2871 turbo failure.


Although you have to understand that it makes it really hard when we get emails like this one I just pulled up that was very recent -

Email from me -

"Also, as a side note, didn't gmtech16450yz tune your car?"

Reply in the email -

"Yup....  That's why I thought it odd we never fixed the surge"


If you would like a copy of the email, feel free to email me directly, I will be happy to forward it to you. Once again, I am just going off of what other people have told me, I have never lied on this forum, that would mean that I intentionally made a false statement. If you believe everyone I talked to in the past have all given me incorrect information, no problem I am happy to remove that section of my post, and have already done so.

I am really interested to know how you can guarantee we have never seen one of your tunes here though?

[gmtech16450yz]

Thank you for removing the false information Dave. I had NOTHING to do with that 2871 on the GMG Solstice. That all happened before I ever laid eyes on that car or even knew it existed. If you want James Sofronas's (the owner of GMG) or Jeremy Smallwood's (the crew chief) cell phone number so you can call them and verify, I'll gladly provide it. What you posted was a lie.

On the tune subject, I will stand by what I've said, I guarantee you've never seen one of my tunes. I know exactly the car you're talking about. Don't you think the people I would pick to work with would know about non-disclosure policies? How do you know what tune was in that car when it came to you? Maybe somebody just wanted to f with you if you were to read the tune without asking the owner, which is what it sounds like you did. How ethical is reading a tune without the customers approval? We REALLY don't need to go into the details of that car and it's owner and the details of what may or may not have happened.

I will not respond any further on this subject. Believe me when I say I am doing that to help you more than me. This would not end well and is really unnecessary. I'm dropping it. Hopefully you will do the same.

[Dave@DDMworks]

Thank you for the offer, we do have GMG's phone numbers and also their email contacts if we would need to get in touch with them.

If you believe that we have never seen one of your tunes, no problem, we will take your work for that and I will not say that we have ever seen one of your tunes from here on out.

If you do not like it when "lies" are said about you, then you should also stay away from yourself making false accusations about us and how we do business. Making a false accusation about us, saying that we would read a tune from a customers car without their permission, is the same "lie" that you just said you would not stand for.

I am glad that you are dropping this and moving on, same here.

Hopefully now we can get back to the original question about the GT3076R and help out the original poster.

[Getaway]

Good luck with your turbo choice. I am very satisfied with the EFR. Planning to test the 7163 next summer (if this turbo gets released in time). The 6758 works really great on my car. Last year I logged 3.4s 60-100. I logged 40-60mph in 0.57s the other day with HP tuners, which is very fast, this is with even more hrs of fine tuning. All this at 1.6 bar of boost.

[elff]

Thats impressive