Topic: Will a GT3076R turbo work on a GXP

[Kelu]

That's a good question you have. Do you not think it could be a daily driver and around 425 hp.

I would say no, but depends on your end result and about driver.

Kelu has his set up for drag racing and he can drive it on the street, but if I recall, it's not ideal.

Are talking about my big turbo setup? Because now I have GT3071R with tubular manifold:
- spool - 15 psi at 3750rpm with 260tq
- peak - 25psi at 4500rpm with 350tq and 408hp - above 300tq between 4000-7000rpm
In my latest session of tuning I was aiming flat tq, no more as late tq as possible

I love garrett turbos.   But they also have some issues once in a while.    There are no turbo companies out there that is "perfect".   You'll have some weird issues occurring once in a while.

But when you want to replace a broken part or whole turbo with Garret is a matter of days, not months as was with EFR.

I think I'd rather have Borg Warner doing the machining on a turbo I put on a motor I built than a turbo somebody re-machined by themselves. Blowing a turbo isn't a big deal. Having it take out a motor that's worth $10k or so is.

Should I quote your reply back when my EFR blew that you checked and had same issue as mine but hopefully I was first and you could tighten that stupid nut?

EFR might be a good turbo but if you can't find it or if gets replaced because of a flaw in a matter of 4-6 months than I consider it a bad product because delivering and warranty are still on the "good product" chapter.

[gmtech16450yz]

But I just can't find the info to confirm what the 6258 can do. It would be hard to take a chance and only have it do 325 whp.

I can pretty much guarantee that unless you have an inept tuner, 375whp on a 6258 would be totally easy to do. If I remember right, the 6258 I worked on put down over 400whp, I think it was 425 or so.

[kwtoxman]

Thx for the info gmtech. I watched your original 6758 build threads years ago and still refer to them often.

Do you remember if the 6258 holds the hp to redline well, like the 6758 does?

[SKY888]

I think the stock LNF rods are supposed to be good for 650/700 crank hp?

they start bending around 415whp

[SKY888]

But when you want to replace a broken part or whole turbo with Garret is a matter of days, not months as was with EFR.

its just a bad timing for you my friend.

You were the one the first few people who received the EFR turbos.....when BW just released them.   And BW all of a sudden had lack of supply since there's too much demand.   So its an unfortunate event.

but I believe right now, EFR parts and turbos are readily available.

[SKY888]

My only comment is the price of the 6258 vs the 6758 are pretty much the same, so why not go with the 6758.

basically the smaller one will always spool faster.......and the bigger one will always get more whp up top.


So its really up to the individual which they PREFER for their car set-up.

The EFR turbos, you have to choose among those small turbos (6255, 6258, and 6758)...of what size you want.   No turbine housing options available.


With Garrett turbos (GT30r) .....for example, you can actually choose what AR turbine size to choose.   You can choose .63, .82, and 1.06 AR.    They all have almost similar prices.     
You can also choose between a regular Garrett turbine housing..........as well as Tial stainless steel turbine housing (which I prefer).  Some of the things that I like about the garrett turbos. 

[LatinVenom]

gmtech:
Do you know if the tubular manifold you had made is prone to cracking?.
I am thinking of upgrading to an EFR-6758 setup and want to use that manifold.
I can get it from Chris but he tells me there is no warranty on it.
I know Dave has a new cast manifold but it is not to my liking.
The other issues are Performance Autowerks does not sell the KIT parts but the whole KIT(to expensive) so is going to be a pain to get all the other parts.
EFR-6758's are selling for as low as $1450.00
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Critterman]

I am so glad I am supercharged, less drama. 

[elff]

It's still blowing air


LV you could use a modified Garret Manifold.   That would restrict you somewhat, but still allow you to easily break 400hp.

[L-N-Fn]

I have been over 400WHP for two + years, on a conservative tune. With internal upgrades he thinks he can get me to 460WHP+. The Garret Manifold is worth considering.

[Kelu]

If somebody needs a Garret manifold, I have one which is sitting around.

[kwtoxman]

Do you know if the tubular manifold you had made is prone to cracking? I know Dave has a new cast manifold but it is not to my liking.

In to hear what gmtech has found on the tubular manifold. I assume your speaking about this. http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/absolute-best-ecotec-efr-turbo-manifold-market-267479/

LV, what is not to your liking on the new cast manifold option? Always trying to learn new stuff. Thx

[IBDRINKEN]

That manifold is a work of art

[LatinVenom]

It

In to hear what gmtech has found on the tubular manifold. I assume your speaking about this. http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lnf-performance-tech-153/absolute-best-ecotec-efr-turbo-manifold-market-267479/

LV, what is not to your liking on the new cast manifold option? Always trying to learn new stuff. Thx

It looks to much like the OEM manifold, where the other one has single runners.
Elff, I need to see a picture of the Garret to refresh my memory, but the one GMTECH had made is by far the best I have seen so far.
Kelu can you post a picture, Thanks
I talked to the manufacturer and he said the one that cracked was use in a race car and he has not heard of any other failures.
My big issue right now is getting all the other parts since Werks does not sell them separate.

[elff]

If somebody needs a Garret manifold, I have one which is sitting around.

Sure, now that you are back in Europe you tell us.
You should have brought that with you.

[gmtech16450yz]

It
It looks to much like the OEM manifold, where the other one has single runners.
Elff, I need to see a picture of the Garret to refresh my memory, but the one GMTECH had made is by far the best I have seen so far.
Kelu can you post a picture, Thanks
I talked to the manufacturer and he said the one that cracked was use in a race car and he has not heard of any other failures.
My big issue right now is getting all the other parts since Werks does not sell them separate.

Hi LV- Chris is right, there has been one failure. (The fact that he told you about it shows he's an honest guy. Tell him I said Hi!) That was NOT a street driven car, it was a race car like he told you. The other factor he may not have mentioned is that the manifold that failed was wrapped up tight with an Inconel blanket. It had pretty significant blankets over the entire turbo, manifold and downpipe. Great for power and keeping heat out of the engine bay, terrible for turbos and manifolds. I'm totally NOT a fan of wrapping any exhaust, especially a turbo manifold. That car was in a pretty severe environment being flogged on the track lap after lap, but I really think the header wrap was the bigger factor.

That's the only failure I know of also. The manifold works awesome, a pretty substantial difference in power between that tube manifold and the Garrett. That Garrett manifold was designed for an application that was nowhere near the power levels we're getting out of the LNF.

Antonio- I think you're a little low on that 415whp number and the rods. You're about 100whp too low. If rods "started" bending at 415whp, there would be dozens and dozens of LNF's out there bending rods. PISTONS are good to about that number, as long as the tune is good. GM says the rods need to be replaced with aftermarket ones at 400hp. They recommend pistons at 300hp. Hmm, notice that 100hp difference? That's how far off your number is. At least. I've got quite a few LNF's running around out there on stock pistons putting out between 375whp and 425whp. We know pistons can live for years at ~400whp, it makes no sense at all to say rods will fail at 415whp. I believe GM even says sleeves need to be upgraded BEFORE rods. How much whp does the average or well tuned LNF put down before breaking sleeves? A helluva lot higher than 415whp.

Kelu- Sorry but I'm not even going to dignify what you said with a response. Your engine and tuning has been a disaster from day one. From the numbers you just posted, it sounds like it's still a disaster.

kwtoxman- I guess the best way I can describe the 6258 at high rpm is it surely doesn't "drop off" in power like many other turbos do. It will still pull up to 7500rpm just like the 6758, it just doesn't feel like it's got power "forever". It absolutely does not feel like it dies and you have to grab another gear at 6k instead of 7k. If you don't have engine hardware that can run at 7500rpm comfortably, it's not a big deal anyway. If you want to run up to 7500rpm, you really need to pull the balance shafts anyway. I recently saw somebody mention that balance shafts are not an issue and should be left in or your motor is gonna shake apart. THAT'S TOTAL BS. Even GM recommends pulling the shafts if the engine will be run at higher rpm's. My engine didn't have shafts, it was fine as a daily driver, and is still fine in a full blown race car.

edit- I should add something more about the balance shafts- One of the engine failures I had was actually CAUSED by one of the balance shafts seizing and breaking the chain. The engine overheated and warped the head I had a few hours into porting on. That balance shaft was a ZZP part, which I believe was poorly designed for 3 different reasons. First was it had no oil groove like the stock GM shafts. Second it was slightly larger in diameter at the bearing surfaces. Third was the finish of the bearing surface was nowhere near as good as I would want for something that's gonna spin at 15k rpm. Engine stress goes up exponentially as rpm goes up. Spinning those shafts at speeds of up to 15k rpm is pretty scary when you're talking about well designed and tested stock parts. Any slight problem with an aftermarket part and it's gonna be a big problem at 15k rpm. If anyone is wondering about balance shafts, I would absolutely recommend removing them and putting in a delete kit for any LNF that's gonna see high rpm's on a regular basis. Just an fyi.

[Kelu]

Kelu- Sorry but I'm not even going to dignify what you said with a response. Your engine and tuning has been a disaster from day one. From the numbers you just posted, it sounds like it's still a disaster.

Really? Define disaster.

Is funny what an easy fish you are, just because I don't praise your "hpt logs and shiny engine bay" I'm failure as everybody else. Same old GMBleah which couldn't stand the arguments of a discussion few years ago on same place and left like a little girl. You still talk trash on other internet sites about people from other places? In the end you didn't post anything to prove your words other than hpt logs which is "disaster" imho. Maybe you should start by telling how come you upgraded your engine about 2-3 years ago and why swap a V8 now?

Elff, I need to see a picture of the Garret to refresh my memory, but the one GMTECH had made is by far the best I have seen so far.
Kelu can you post a picture, Thanks

Sorry LV, I have only pictures when arrived:
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]

[elff]

Typical example of someone not being able to take what they dish out.

I was going to finish with my last statement, but since false information and insults are still being hurled by the person who whined the most when it turned against them....................
Let me put together a timeline

Gmtech tuned jebs car.  Proof is in this thread.
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/5th-injector-diy-instructions-40627/

DDMWorks fixed the clutch in Jebs car and had to drive the car to verify the work. 
This is also public information posted on SkyRoadster and since the work was not done for free, i will assume
There will be an invoice for the job with Jeb as the customer.  And driving a car before and after fixing it is standard procedure for a mechanic to verify their work.

No possibility of anything being accused of false information above

After the 2871 is suggested as a possibility in this thread

GMTECH slanders both DDMworks and BNR racing by calling their products "cobbled together". He continues to make more negative comments.

Insiduations about the 2871 being unreliable are made when in fact there has only been a single failure which happened to be on a poorly setup race car vs a street car which this turbo was designed for.
NO OTHER FAILURES to date have occcured with a 2871.

A little sidebar
BW can not make that claim and had to redesign a component of the original EFR to resolve the issue
This too is documented in numerous forums and numerous threads. 
Reliability issues of the EFR and supply constraints have both been resolved to date.

Back to the matter at hand

Insinuations about DDMworks handling of the failed 2871 were made by GMtech which turn out to be more slander and untrue.   
DDMworks did take care of the situation.  Stating otherwise is slander

The point in this is that GMtech comes into this thread hurling insults all around and makes numerous SLANDEROUS comments against a forum sponser, and 2 successful businesses.

As a result of this
DDMworks then states the experience they had driving Jebs car [which we have the above proof showing it was tuned by GMTeCH]. In short summary, it did not run well.


Gmtech then gets all butt hurt and tries to attacks DDMworks stating they never saw the tune then comes up with some B.S. and tried to act all Litious but in my opinion makes him sound like a little .  He goes so far as to accuse DDMworks of downloading a tune without a customers permission.

Where is the proof that this was done.

DDMworks didnt need to see the tune, they drove the car.  DUH!!!!
Thats all it takes to experience a crap tune.

I call complete and utter B.S. on any inference of the Tune on Jebs car being removed before being dropped off at DDMworks

I would go so far as to challenge for proof and also proof of this "supposed" non disclosure

I want to see that B.S. put into writing. 

Ive driven Kelu's car
There are pictures of me from my trip to Romania to document it.
Ive also personally met the shop owner and tuner.

Very nice and competant people and I dont think they would approve of GMtechs Lying and
SLANDEROUS comments
FYI
Their shop holds numerous records for different types of racing

So yea,  more PeaCocking
And the above is
A CSB


Edit add
I decided to add a nice little picture my talented wife made which is a play on GMtechs original batch of insults, lies and slander

[Sol Asylum]

I can back up Elff's statements about Kelu's car and tuner, as I was also there.  Hell I even took some of the pictures he talks about.

As a person that has worked as a professional mechanic I have never heard of a tech having an NDA with a customer, that just sounds like total BS.

I too wonder why someone that supposedly built such a great 4 banger would then remove it and install a V8?

[L-N-Fn]

He did say something about 3 bent rods. Not just a V8, a supercharged, after-cooled, LSA coupled to a 6060.  That sounds quite the challenge, maybe he likes challenges, or bragging rights. 

[gmtech16450yz]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! You two are hilarious! I only have one response specifically to your posts...

8000 posts for the little midget elfin.
6500 posts for "MISTER KAPPA ASSYLUM".

You two REALLY need to get off the internet and find a life. Really. I'm serious. Spending all your waking hours on internet forums is not good. Go outside, it's a great big world out there. I'm dead serious here. Haven't you ever heard of "Moderation in Everything"? You're taking this forum thing to an extreme. It's not healthy. This goes for others on here too. I can't help but think what a certain vendors time spent watching and posting on the forums had to do with it taking a year and a half to put a V/8 in a Solstice? There is ABSOLUTELY NO good reason that a vendor should have had a customers car for that long. People, it's a FORUM. It's not real life. Get over it and move on. Get back to work, whatever it is you do. It's really not healthy being obsessed with what strangers say on an internet forum.

I want to Thank You all for reminding me of this. THAT is the reason I left the forums cold turkey for almost a year. I was spending too much time trying to help everyone and fending off the ignorant few that have no life and just want to argue and raise their post count. I didn't run and hide, I left because I knew it was sucking too much of my time and that it was ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS arguing with ignorant people. Don't get me wrong, there are many, many awesome, nice, intelligent people on internet forums. I said "ignorant FEW". I mean that. I've helped hundreds of people on, and mostly off in PM's and emails, from the forums. I absolutely love sharing what I know and helping people. I've done it all my life. The people that know me know what I'm all about. Some of you here do too, but stay quiet because, well, let's see, BECAUSE THEY'RE NICE PEOPLE and don't want to get involved in this BS. People like elf and sa have no clue what I'm about and who I really am. I really couldn't care less. I will not waste my time trying to convince them, their minds are closed to knowledge and only thrive on stirring the pot to increase their post count and internet entertainment. I'm not here for entertainment, I'm here to gain and share knowledge. This isn't something I get a kick out of, like the two of you obviously do.

Yeah I'm harsh and to the point. Yeah I tell it like it is. I don't foot around, I simply don't have the time or patience. I can look through every post I've ever made though and back up 100% of what I've said as fact. I'm not a liar. Here's one little tidbit for you guys that think I'm making up BS to bash a vendor that you all kiss up to... (I really did not want to do this, and I WILL NOT respond to a single comment on it. It is accurate as far as what I was personally told by the people involved.)

A year ago my wife and I went to the Indy car races at Sonoma. It was also a stop on the World Challenge series. I happened to stumble onto the GMG team in the pits, and saw Bill Ziegler's Solstice sitting outside their trailer. I asked them if I could look under the hood, and Jeremy Smallwood, the crew chief, reluctantly agreed and we started talking. We talked for an hour and this is the short version... The car was running so badly they couldn't even qualify or race. The car had never run good after having a 2871 put on it and being tuned by DDM. It gradually got so bad it was barely running at Sonoma. They trailered that car around the country from race to race, trying to get it running right, and constantly asking for Dave's help. It just kept running worse. I felt so bad about the situation I told Jeremy and Bill I would do ANYTHING I could to help them get that Solstice back on the track. They agreed and we went to work. Before I even started, Jeremy told me the 2871 was broken. He said from the way it broke, and the fact it only had a few hours of run time, ALL ON DDM'S TUNING, there was no way he was going to run that turbo on the track. I agreed and recommended the EFR and my manifold design. The World Challenge guys ok'd the smaller EFR, the 6258, so Jeremy put it on. The very first tune I gave him was at least 50whp over the best DDM had done. We were limited by race rules to a certain boost and hp level, so we absolutely were NOT going for peak hp on this car. What I gave them was a hugely wider and stronger powerband, and the car ran clean and strong at every track it went to . I worked with some of the best drivers in the business while I was track testing and tuning that car. EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL RACER said the same thing when they got out of it- "HOLY CR@P THIS THING HAULS @SS!!!" One of the drivers had more track time than I think most any other driver in SCCA racing, and he said HE wanted to race the car. Unfortunately, the track times he was turning in it would have put him in the top 5 of the GT class cars. The Solstice is in the lower class, it's a GTS car. The GT guys wouldn't be too happy if a GTS car was giving them a run for their money. There's no way the World Challenge tech guys would have let him drive that car in the GTS class, he would have WALKED AWAY from the pack. I actually worked a lot with Bill on turning down the "hit" so it was easier for him to go through corners under power. He always hated the transmission in that car, but absolutely loved the way I made it run.

I ended up at Sonoma again this year, not to work with GMG, but to come to the aid of another team, with another LNF powered car that wouldn't run and they couldn't even qualify. A guy I never talked to or met before called me on Thursday and said he heard I knew about LNF's and could I help them. I told my boss I needed to leave work and I drove straight to the track right after our first phone conversation. The car would barely run, and it was because of a horrible tune. It was like dejavu. (sp?) After I was done with the other team, the GMG team treated me to dinner and we talked about how they were in the same spot, at the same track, a year before. Jeremy and Bill thanked me again for helping them get a horribly running car back on the track. That's what I do. That's what I'm good at. I help people. I don't know everything, but I know a helluva lot about every aspect of cars. People have paid me a lot of money for a lot of years for what I know. I've NEVER personally worked with someone that didn't walk away happy to have met and talked to me, thrilled with what they got for their money, and happy to have me as a friend they respect and want to spend time with.

Say whatever you want about my "chest beating", I will not respond. As I said earlier, I want to Thank all of you for showing me that although there are guys quietly in the background that I'm helping here, it's just not worth trying to argue with the resident forum "Tards", as a good friend of mine calls them. Spending time with my family and friends and working on my many projects is FAR more important than trying to convince a couple of idiots about things like why Jeb's car ran like it did. I'll give you a hint though, it might be because of a garbage turbo from another vendor you guys like to kiss up to. That turbo was junk and Jeb admitted it. I was still able to make it a daily driver that put out probably 500whp. How many of you guys can say you've done that? Come on, I can't hear anyone? Anyone? Yeah, that's what I thought.  CERTAINLY elf and sa can't say that. So why are they even talking about tuning when they don't know sh!t about it? So STFU and get a life.

L-N-Fn- You're right, I do enjoy a challenge, and the LSA/TR6060 and the dozens of other major suspension and even interior changes I'm making will be pretty cool, but I don't do things for bragging rights. I'm building my Sky for ME, no one else. There will be no part of this car that isn't exactly like I want it. It will be the culmination of what I've learned over almost 40 years of having my hands on cars. Ideas I've come up with about engines, suspension, painting, interior design, dash electronics, entire vehicle wiring and computer systems, brakes, clutch operation, etc, etc.  I have NEVER taken a car to a car show, I don't build cars to show off to others, I build them to drive. This car is gonna be my daily driver when it's done. It was either build this car or buy a CTS-V Coupe, ZR1 or C7. I think this Sky will be more fun than any of those would have been, and we already have one CTS-V anyway.

Later

(That's what I always sign my emails with, but in this case, I won't be back.)

John

[Kelu]

Lie #1:
You said you helped people over PM and email, you said you helped me, but you didn't, you just sent me 2 emails whining how bad my Westers tune is and I should call for refund which I told you I would never do that. You didn't even sent a config file when I kindly asked you.

Lie #2:
You said you never brag when you ALWAYS do that in almost every post of yours.

You are so good in tuning that you blew 2 of your own engines.

I hope "FAAAAAR Later"

[Dave@DDMworks]

Gmtech,

We never tuned the GMG race car.

[elff]

Gmtech,

We never tuned the GMG race car.

Already stated pages ago but worth repeating to show that the reason the 2871 install failed was due to a bad install, with an undersized cat and bad tuning
Not the 2871 product.

Also worthy of noting as it's the only example that can be used
Yet
The only failure of a different product,
due to a bad install,
on a race car
Is given a clean slate.

How I love hypocrisy. 


Who threw the hissy fit about spreading lies?
O yea, it's the person leaving the forum.

Does GMT have proof from GMG about who tuned the car, if not then he should take his own advice and stop spreading lies.  Well I guess he is due to him never coming back.

At least GMT justified how it was found that he tuned the GMG car.  He just admitted it.  So whoever told that to DDM was not lying.  The only thing in question is the time frame and which turbo(s) were on the car at that time.
Something smells fishy to me.    Someone Protests too much [Cough Cough GMT]
 

Yup
I got no life.  Can I ask everyone at the MM to please deny that I was there.  I don't want to disappoint someone and let them believe their delusions.

[Sol Asylum]

So lets see I make two comments in this thread related to GMtech.

1. That it will take 6 months for a reply.  Based this comment on past history guess I was wrong this time, my bad.  Except you didn't answer the question to the post I made that comment about

2. That I was also in Romania and can back up Elffs comments about Kelu's car/tuner, question your NDA and your change to a V8. I was in Romania, your NDA comments sound like BS and do make you sound like you're trying to cover something up, and you can't even answer the V8 question.

And this is how you respond? 
 
So lets see:

I will now await for you to go on a full Book Tirade consisting of
1. How Much money you make check
2. How your shit don't stink check
3. How you have done this crap 5 million times check
4. How Awesome you are check
5. How your son can do this in his sleep well 4 out of 5
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

It will require more than the height of any modern monitor and basically be regurgitation of the same shit you always type.  check

GMtech
Seriously dude, Get the  Over Yourself.

Looks like Elff was mostly right.

GMtech I don't know what you can or can not do and my comments about you have only been based on what I have observed you doing, in that you are very predictable.  The fact that everytime you get all pissed off when someone asks you to give proof of something you claim to have done only gives people the impression you are making things up and are full of it.

For the record I have never done business with DDM, I have meet Dave a few times at the Mod Meets and he does seem like a pretty competent person.

Elff, slander is when you say something that is false about someone else liable is when you write it, so since this is a forum and things are written in posts you should be using the word liable.

GMtech bye bye don't let the door...