Topic: Twincharged Solstice = Turbocharger + Supercharger

[Steelmesh]

The ring gap looks HUGE in that one photo.  Is there an edge piece snapped off?  In any case I would suggest that the ring could compress too much and let the piston touch the cylinder wall (maybe?).

Yeah I agree, rings probably have something to do with all this wear...in addition to the wear being quite even and not biased to the piston-to-wall-under-combustinog thrust area.

The ring face on Piston 3 is also not shiny, but more like gall damage really messy looking

Piston 1 (left) vs Piston 3 (right)

[Steelmesh]

What did that cylinder bore look like?  Stuck ring?  Was the piston hitting the flame ring on the head gasket?  Check and make sure the con rod isn't bent.

On the old LE5 discussion...

Here is Cylinder 3, The shiny marks are from the ridge reamer tool slipping in the bore (doh!). Passes finger nail test even with that, however there maybe a slight indication of waviness on the exhaust side surface of the cylinder wall near the bottom of stroke, idk. Rings felt loose, no real carbon build up in that area.  This is a factory engine, so not gapped for turbos.  I think Asylum and Tomato are on the right track with the rings.  I don't have enough experience here tearing down engines with know root causes, could it be possible Cylinder 3 kept getting really hot which caused the rings to try and occupy the same space as the cylinder wall and over time it wore things out?

Exhaust side Cyl 3:



Intake side Cyl 3:

[Steelmesh]

Me  "Enough Coating Already"

This is pretty time consuming coating all these parts with Cerakote [trying to do it professionally].  I've got piston top coat (V-136Q), dry lube microslick (C-110Q), heat dissipating (C-187Q), and an air dry ceramic (C-7900Q) for larger exhaust parts.

Temporary indoor paint booth with vent fan (had for welding), works great just no smoking or welding near it:


Turbine done, compressor cover has to wait for welding:


Micro slicked oil pump housing, to match up with the WPC treated (shot peened) gerotor:


Diamond Piston tops with ceramic piston coating and the skirts are micro slicked, along with all bearings:


Gotta run, need to finish the porting so I can start coating the head and chambers!!

Intakes almost done:

[Gentleman Jack]

whoa... I need to make a paint booth in the new shed...

[Sol Asylum]

Maybe I'm wrong but it looks to me like there is a crack in the aluminum block.  First picture left side near the bottom of the picture just between the two cylinders.  If that's the case you are most likely looking at that cylinder having an over heat problem.  Oil burns off, metals expand too much, aluminum could melt, basically no lube, no clearance, and metal leaving the scene of the crime.

[Steelmesh]

Maybe I'm wrong but it looks to me like there is a crack in the aluminum block.  First picture left side near the bottom of the picture just between the two cylinders.  If that's the case you are most likely looking at that cylinder having an over heat problem.  Oil burns off, metals expand too much, aluminum could melt, basically no lube, no clearance, and metal leaving the scene of the crime.

Picture does look like a crack, I cleaned it up and it ended up being just the edge of the other side of the open deck casting...optical illusion

[Steelmesh]

Chambers and valves V-136 coated:



Finish Baked:





Cringy experience welding dirty cast AL:



It holds water:


VC, FC, and pan were blasted in the cabinet, here I am blasting the block and head for proper Cerakote coating:



Coated with Heat Transfer Gray, turned out fantastic except for that wind gust blowing the plastic wall into the valve cover messing up the wet finish, will redo when spraying the intake manifold.  I also blasted all exposed bolts that were coated over:

[DeepBlueGXP]

Looks great, what is the media you used to blast the engine?  Will you paint the engine?
Does the coatings on the valve and internal combustion sections need to be baked? 
How will they hold up to the high temps?

[Steelmesh]

Looks great, what is the media you used to blast the engine?  Will you paint the engine?
Does the coatings on the valve and internal combustion sections need to be baked? 
How will they hold up to the high temps?

I used 120 Aluminum Oxide in my blast cabinet for the pistons, chambers/valves, turbine, pan, front and valve covers (and all the other small parts).  I lightly scotch bright the bearings (per Cerakote), don't want to embed abrasives into the bearings.   

For the exterior block and head I used Harbor Fright 70 Aluminum Oxide at 80 psi with that $30 HF blasting gun kit (bought years ago), it cut really fast so I was able to get the block and head done with a little bit of blast media left (50 lbs); I didn't even recycle the media but easily could have for another round of blasting.  I guess the disadvantage of the larger grit is the cerakote isn't thick enough to fill the peaks and valleys, so my intuition claims that is more surface area for cooling. 

The engine is coated with cerakote heat transfer grey, 5-day air dry cure.  To me #1 it looks great and should be a very durable finish, #2 it is supposed to be functional and not an insulator like maybe a powder coat or engine enamels, but not sure if we're splitting hairs.  For the turbine, valves, chambers and piston tops I used V-136Q oven cured, so yes I put the cylinder head in my big gas oven in the house.  I have a fairly large toaster oven for everything else.  As far as durability, Cerakote applied properly is very stable at extreme temps and well bonded so no flaking off.  Cerakote is not a magic invulnerable paint/coating, just a very durable coating with bonus features.

[DeepBlueGXP]

You definitely know what you doing.  We used glass bead media in the Navy blasting booth to prevent dissimilar metals being introduced into each other.

[Steelmesh]

ZZP 82 lb valve springs characterized after WPC treatment (super shot peening)

[Steelmesh]

Shot peened oil pump gerotor installed:


Oil pressure regulator shimmed, I did calcs and estimated added about 10% more spring force on the seat:


Mains bore gauged (spec 0.0012"-0.0026"), all are 0.0016" clearance but Main 4 is 0.0021" clearance though. (EDIT: from the future, you will see below the crank didn't spin when caps torqued and plastigage showed it was tight):


Reused front oil gallery plugs, used red loctite and peened them in:

[Steelmesh]

Diamond pistons clearance for the oil squirters.  The asymmetrical piston skirt design was triggering, but I feel better now after the test fit here:


Isky groove-o-matic o-ring tool disaster.  I damaged the old block trying to test out the tool, the picture shows how the tool holder was machined wrong and doesn't even capture the blade.  Because the instructions didn't have any tool setup info and the blade did not work in the correct position, I f'd up and tried to install the blade in another orientation so it would be held which led to a wobbly blade and inconsistency.  Okay I was partially to blame, but a defective tool is worse than me  


Was doing more research on how to o-ring blocks, came around to the SCE titan copper gaskets with an o-ring built in.  Also can be reused per the manufacturer, also don't need fancy surface finishes on the head/block.  I luckily got an extension on returning the Isky tool (amazon prime), Isky stopped communicated after asking if they could sell me a new tool for the Amazon price if I return the one I got; no one responded for a few days emails went dark, so I sent the tool back to Amazon.  Isky did send a new tool bit holder and blade without telling me; however consider this was after 4 phone calls over the whole day (to get a hold of the right person), 15 pictures with caliper measurements over a bunch of emails and constantly asking for a replacement blade or holder for a week. 


The caliper here shows the approximate center of the o-ring, so it will barely have metal-to-metal contact on both sides, this gasket was made for the 2.2L.

[MattM]

I know I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to add some information to the opinions some have that say "why not just turbo" etc.  I knew a guy that had an m62 supercharge probe gt (second gen) that was able to get mid 12 second quarter mile times out of it.  He then popped on an ebay turbo setup and wound up getting mid 11 second 1/4 mile times. 

What people talk about with lag etc.  I totally understand.  In this guy's case (his name is dueces on youtube lots of vids) the turbo didn't have lag problems from a dohc v6 and made good power etc, but all the guys with that turbo setup were not coming close to touching his 1/4 times with the addition of the little supercharger.  It wasn't just a lag issue it litterallly created a beast out of the sc and turbo (more than either could get) and together they both made much more power with a better power band than either alone could achieve at lower boost preassure.

He used his as a compound setup.  The turbo boosted through the supercharger and there was no fancy valves or anything.  Just boosted through it.  It was pretty awesome!  So I say anyone looking to go twincharged should do it!  I can't explain the why but I KNOW that it comes out MUCH better than one or the other.

[Steelmesh]

I know I'm late to this thread, but I wanted to add some information to the opinions some have that say "why not just turbo" etc.  I knew a guy that had an m62 supercharge probe gt (second gen) that was able to get mid 12 second quarter mile times out of it.  He then popped on an ebay turbo setup and wound up getting mid 11 second 1/4 mile times. 

What people talk about with lag etc.  I totally understand.  In this guy's case (his name is dueces on youtube lots of vids) the turbo didn't have lag problems from a dohc v6 and made good power etc, but all the guys with that turbo setup were not coming close to touching his 1/4 times with the addition of the little supercharger.  It wasn't just a lag issue it litterallly created a beast out of the sc and turbo (more than either could get) and together they both made much more power with a better power band than either alone could achieve at lower boost preassure.

He used his as a compound setup.  The turbo boosted through the supercharger and there was no fancy valves or anything.  Just boosted through it.  It was pretty awesome!  So I say anyone looking to go twincharged should do it!  I can't explain the why but I KNOW that it comes out MUCH better than one or the other.

There is not a whole lot of published science on it.  From my current understanding the science says Pressure and Heat are compounded 1+1=3.  If the heat can be managed, I think you win.   I have an air/water IC between the TC and SC an the factory air/water IC in the LSJ manifold, and finally water/methanol injection.  I'll probably get NOZZZ direct port, but I am already thousands over budget so I need to chill out for now.

I was inside a big 3 dyno test facility.  In one of the engine build areas I saw a prototype twincharge setup using a roots style blower and two throttle bodies.  I tracked down the engineer and found out the project was focused on efficiency instead of max power.  He did say the blower can be a bottle neck if it is feeding a turbo in a series setup.

[Steelmesh]

Following up on the old LE5 with the excessively worn cylinder 3 bore.

After inspecting all top ring ends for signs of butting, Cylinder 3 top ring shows polished shiny spots that indicate it was butting, the picture is horrible but shows where to look.  All other cylinder top rings did not show any signs of butting.  This is a stock N/A LE5 that was boosted, and also note it suffered thermally with the stock baby radiator.

[MattM]

Steelmesh, here is an article from a guy with realworld experience helping to explain what I was talking about.  It's pretty awesome!

https://www.perrin.com/blog/post/twin-charged-perrin-2016-wrx

[Steelmesh]

Steelmesh, here is an article from a guy with realworld experience helping to explain what I was talking about.  It's pretty awesome!

https://www.perrin.com/blog/post/twin-charged-perrin-2016-wrx

I caught the youtube videos with the rally sport direct guy and it looks like it is the same WRX.  Not a big fan of the youtube coverage.  From this article some things I noted from that article:

- They're twin-intercooling, Front mount after the turbo, then water/air after the SC.
- Didn't see pressure multiple at lower rpms, the compounding effect
- Noted the SC spools the turbo faster, but with crazy high rising boost
- Quote: "ast forward to today and after about 4 or 5 versions of control systems, I finally got it dialed.  It is so good that I took it one step further and installed a 10mm smaller pulley to make even more boost down low.  This would not  have been possible without the dual port bypass valve Harrop includes and our EBCS Pro to control it. I can run at little as about 12psi or as much as probably 35psi, all fully controlled by the ECU."
- Two more weeks of tuning in boost control
- Virtually no lag, works great

[Steelmesh]

Delays from neck / shoulder injury week before the holiday break ruined that week off, on top of battling main crank clearances.

• At first the crankshaft wouldn't spin when torquing the mains. 
• I burnished off the cerakote coating and it only added 0.0001-0.0003" to mains diameter, so with plastigage and bore gage it now agreed things were too tight (some under 1 thou). I'm no longer a fan of Taitanium mics and bore gages. 
• I asked a shop to polish out 0.0008" from all mains. Crank runout was nothing.
• After this it was still too tight (0.0011-0.0016" roughly). 
• I then picked up a new set of bearings from a dealership and now everything is in spec (0.0016"-0.0020").
• Will be running 5w30 Amsoil after dino breakin

 
*Pretty sure lifting the block off the stand multiple times (to bore gage all mains) along with selling an old iron SBC block and manhandling it into the back of my truck fast tracked my neck / shoulder issue.

Another major issue is the top piston ring lands are too tight.  Obviously I thought it was my coating so I took an old stock ring and started scraping, still too tight. I then used valve lapping compound to make sure all coating is gone...and it is still too tight with all coating gone.  I am working on a solution right now that involves a 4-jaw chuck and a P1N blade.



Depowered the power steering rack; where I just cut and flared the tubes into each other, I randomly did it on a bench and it fits no clearance issues lol.  I attempted to disassemble and weld the shaft, but it has a special plastic dust cap I didn't feel like destroying it further after chiseling at it or do I have the inclination to chop up a socket to fab a special tool.  If it needs to be welded I will make it happen after the car is running, or if manual steering is no longer my preference I will go back to power anyway.

 


Super clean engine bay (was disgusting because Fluid Film and this engine bay picks up all the dust/debris from the road it seems) and then the exposed rust spots were hit with rust converter, then hit with grey primer:

 
*Also see new energy suspension sway bar bushings are installed.

Duplicolor base coat, then Acrylic clear:

 


Drilled out the head restrictor, increased cross sectional area (pi*r^2) by ~33%.  Used a #48 0.076" drill bit, stock restrictor is about 0.064-0.065" diameter.  Also note the head gaskets have a small orifice hole at this location.

 


Front energy suspension bushings done, I got one of last sets.  You can use a shop press to do the uppers, but you need an arbor press for the lowers.  The harbor fright arbor works perfect [if you use a car jack handle and react this torque with a steel tube on the gear-rack of the arbor press], I used two 123 blocks as the clearance spacers and removed the arbor press u-disc to get clearance.  Rear bushings and quaife diff on the list among a boat load of things. Be sure to grease up the arbor press.

 



Another issue is the rusty stuck suspension bushing spacers.  These special washers with precision dimensions tighten up the bolt-to-bushing clearance, ES instructions say to reuse them.  Kind of tough if they arent resuable when they are rusted on or sliced from taking a cutoff wheel to the first one because it was a puzzle I was exploring.  These bushing washers make sense, your alignment could change after bump with the play, so I am not going to slap washers in there.  I am working on turning some 6061 aluminum spacers.

 
*Pro-Tip from my experience mechanic friend, Step 1: take an air hammer with flat tool and hammer it behind these bushings and they will pop right now [if you live in Florida where he lived previously].  But hey it worked for two of mine.



The lower control arm rear bushing is a $*&%@*#!  From my experience I theorize you could take a hole saw to it to help cut out a rubber ring just inside the outer diameter of the rubber bushing rim; the rubber rim has a full circle steel ring embedded into it.  A grinder cutoff wheel clogs with rubber so not recommended; I went at it with a razor knife to cut that dang ring out of the second CA, all this so you can push the bushing through. 

Energy Suspension bushing install tip, Using a large 1/2" socket (diameter big enough to press new bushing in), stick a 1/2"-to-3/8" drive adapter in the socket with another adapter (3/8"-to-1/2") into the 1/2" socket to create a sort of stub that is small enough to fit inside the urethane bushing hole, this will keep the bushing from flying out of the press 5 times ask me how I know.

[TomatoSoup]

Made me laugh... keep 'em coming!  Fascinating.

[Steelmesh]

Front Koni shocks wrapped with Eibach lowering springs. Had to drill out washer and strut mount to fit over larger shock rod per instuctions:





Touching up the piston ring grooves, happy to share it was a success.  All groove clearances started out at closer to 0.000", now they're all 0.002".  Lesson Learned (duh) check your custom piston critical dimensions immediately if you're not installing them right away.

Clamping on the crown, not enough clearance with my tooling though:


4-jaw chuck saves all days, clamping on skirt and pin bores:


P1N cutoff blade, a bit too flimsy was deflecting; an insert or custom tool bit may perform better:

[elff]

Front Koni shocks wrapped with Eibach lowering springs. Had to drill out washer and strut mount to fit over larger shock rod per instuctions:

Out of all the Spring/Shock Combo's and Coilovers I had on my Sky
Koni's with Eibach springs were the absolute worst.
Eibach has their Spring rates backwards.
on a Kappa, the Rears need to be stiffer than the fronts, due to the near perfect weigh balance of the car.
Eibach doesn't realize this, and they actually told me the Suspension of the Solstice is different than the Sky, further solidifying the fact that they don't know shit about our cars.

I highly recommend you run something else.

You might want to check out this thread
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,8724.0.html

[Steelmesh]

Out of all the Spring/Shock Combo's and Coilovers I had on my Sky
Koni's with Eibach springs were the absolute worst.
Eibach has their Spring rates backwards.
on a Kappa, the Rears need to be stiffer than the fronts, due to the near perfect weigh balance of the car.
Eibach doesn't realize this, and they actually told me the Suspension of the Solstice is different than the Sky, further solidifying the fact that they don't know shit about our cars.

I highly recommend you run something else.

You might want to check out this thread
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,8724.0.html

Thanks for the insight on this.  When I purchased the car, the Eibachs were included in a box never installed.  I'll for sure look into this, and it will be another thing to keep me up at night. 

I am shifting my attitude towards getting the car in drive-able condition as fast as possible, trying to balance doing it right and doing it fast.

[elff]

If you have the money, I'd suggest BC Coilovers and a bunch of people would back me up on that.  They are amazing on the Kappas and you can customize the spring rates when you order them.

 

[Steelmesh]

I installed the springs on a nice machine, all installed heights were checked, tall ones got the higher load springs:




Very studly block.  7/16 studs, 80 ftlbs torque.



I was about to assemble the head to the block last night....