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Author Topic: Uh-Oh 2.0  (Read 5160 times)

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Offline Uranium-238

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Uh-Oh 2.0
« on: December 14, 2009, 06:29:07 PM »
Well, I finally got around to washing my car today. Ever since hearing about the ballooning intercooler issues some people have have, I've made an inspection of the intercooler part of my normal wash-the-car routine.

You guessed it. Major ballooning on the top and bottom areas of the intercooler. I've been seeing 1-2 psi less boost than normal, and had just attributed that to colder weather, perhaps this is the cause. Also, I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the cold start issue I mentioned in my other thread.

So, I have no choice but to take it to a dealer to get it fixed this time. The question is, who to take it to? I'd ditch my plans to get a SOLO exhaust kit next month and get an aftermarket intercooler, but I've been looking forward to buying that kit all month...
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Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 07:21:23 PM »
Covered under warranty, right?  Just get it replaced - it can't happen to ALL of them :)

Why does this affect your plans for a Solo?
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 07:30:06 PM »
238,

I have a probable warranty repair (weather strip on pass. side) and have too been wondering about WHERE to take it.  My thought are to take it to the GMC dealer that used to be P/B/GMC, as they would still have trained techs, but not sure.  Anybody have any thoughts?
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Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 07:33:34 PM »
My t
questions on where to take it stem from me being the one who does all the maintenance. I don't want to go to a dealer who's going to give me grief for doing so.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 07:42:34 PM »
Well there is Goat's dealer in Manassas or my dealer in Laurel.  Both have good Service writers, and mechanics
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Offline Treeman

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 02:00:58 PM »
They won't give you grief for doing your own maintenance unless you do something to cause the problem.  Unless you did something to really overpressurize the IC, no way they can hold you responsible.  Plus its a well documented problem.  Plus, you are still running stock boost - not even GMPP.  Don't sweat it - they will fix it under warranty.

Jack, my understanding is that any dealer that was P/B/GMC and still is B/GMC is where GM wants you to take your Pontiac.  Don't know about Saturns in general but the Sky is a natural fit here since B/GMC dealers still have to support the Solstice.

238- Fox Chevrolet/Buick/GMC on Rt 1 in Laurel is the dealer Critter and I use.  They have a mechanic that is a Solstice nut.  They know what they're doing and are great to work with.
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Offline smartin

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
There's also my other dealer in Alexandria that did my starter on a Saturday.

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 11:35:54 AM »
U-238 I sent you a PM with contact info. The factory intercooler is junk? Wow am I surprised, oh wait no I'm not Lyndon told me that 2 years ago, that's why I don't have one and neither does he.

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 12:00:22 PM »
I'd go ahead and get an aftermarket one, but I'd much rather get the SOLO kit.
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Offline Treeman

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 01:39:36 PM »
Junk?  From what I understand, it is rated for 50 psi but there were production problems on some.  Only a few seem to be going bad....
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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 02:41:38 PM »
The PSI rating has nothing to do with how well it works, that's like saying my tires are rated for 50 PSI, BFD doesn't make them good tires. If you have ever seen how fast our cars heatsoak on a dyno you would understand. 2 maybe 3 runs and heatsoak big time. It is just to small and of poor design, and it would seem quality. Lyndon ran into huge problems back when he was first attempting to tune our cars, he could do a run or 2 then have to wait for the car to cool down. There is only one purpose for an intercooler, to cool the charge to increase air density. Ours suck at this, they are the most cost effective solution that will do a minimal job, unfortunately the way most cars are engineered these days. Using a better one would have increased the price considerably. There is a reason one of the very first mods available for our cars was an intercooler.

Offline Unclefester

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 10:56:45 PM »
There's also my other dealer in Alexandria that did my starter on a Saturday.

I used to take my 06 there when I lived in Alexandria.  Never had an issue with them.
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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 10:26:24 AM »
With as little as you have done to your car U-238 I would not think any dealer would not give you any trouble, the one in Manassas is more friendly to those of us who have done quite a bit to our cars, if they put up with me, that says a lot! Lots of dealers do not have a dedicated warranty claims person, that is where you will always have issue's. If they have a person whose only job is do file warranty claims they are far more open to them.

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 11:36:13 AM »
Yeah I'm going to get in touch with Koons and see if there's any way this could be worked out into a one-trip deal.
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lil goat

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 11:47:20 AM »
They usually want to see the damage before they order parts, tell Jay how far away you are he may be willing to accept pictures, he is a really good guy.

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 08:20:25 PM »
Speaking of pictures I would like to see some of the "inflated intercooler" if you have the chance to take some.
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Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 09:12:53 PM »
Will do.
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Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 12:08:36 PM »
I still have the stock IC

lil goat

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 12:46:11 PM »
Me too except mine's in the garage  :rofl: It works really well there. For daily driving the stock intercooler works fine, and even for short bursts, like the 1/4. For autoX or other types of racing it can fall very short, anytime you maintain high boost for an extended period it will heatsoak and you will have a fairly quick lose in HP and torque due to the reduced charge density from the increased heat. At Cumberland I saw many of the folks with tutbocharged cars spraying down the intercoolers between runs to cool them down, you see the same at drift events, in the extreme they spray them with NOS as it is very cold. I saw one Scoobie with ice packed on the IC between runs. Gardella has 3 electric fans on there Hahn intercooler on the Solstice.

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 01:15:16 PM »
I know the benefits of an aftermarket intercooler, and have thought about just going ahead and dropping the money for an aftermarket one. But I've been planning on buying an exhaust kit, and even if I wasn't there are other things that would give me even more performance gains for the money. (Tune, shocks, race tires, etc.)
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Offline Kenny

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2009, 01:46:56 PM »
It's definitely lower on my list. But it'll have to be done eventually. Specially when I get a bigger turbo.
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lil goat

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2009, 02:07:58 PM »
You will not notice much of a gain from an intercooler, it doesn't add much hp, it just keeps you from losing what you have. I saw dyno runs drop 50 from the first to the fifth run because of heatsoak. It would not be my first choice either but to be honest you will see more gains from the intercooler than from the exhaust, the factory exhaust is not bad performance wise, it makes more torque than most aftermarket systems it is just so quiet. The intercooler becomes far more important with a tune. I would get a tune before and exhaust if I had a limited budget.

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2009, 02:50:51 PM »
1. Won't buy a tune before shocks & other suspension upgrades. Already spun it once, gonna beef everything up before I add more power.

2. I'm sick of not being able to hear my car.

3. GM owes me an intercooler, crap or not.
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Offline Treeman

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2009, 02:51:18 PM »
You will not notice much of a gain from an intercooler, it doesn't add much hp, it just keeps you from losing what you have. I saw dyno runs drop 50 from the first to the fifth run because of heatsoak. It would not be my first choice either but to be honest you will see more gains from the intercooler than from the exhaust, the factory exhaust is not bad performance wise, it makes more torque than most aftermarket systems it is just so quiet. The intercooler becomes far more important with a tune. I would get a tune before and exhaust if I had a limited budget.

OK.  You know I am not a dyno expert but I have to ask you about this heatsoak thing.  What you are describing is an accumulation of heat over time - something that happens in a closed system such as an engine cooling system or a car with the windows shut.  An engine bay with the hood shut and not moving is pretty closed.  

The air intake system is an open system, drawing from a continuous stream of fresh cool air.  

I know (or hope) that you put a fan in front of the car when it is on a dyno, but unless you are in a wind tunnel with 60 mph winds, that is not very realistic of the air flow of a moving car.  

It seems to me that you have a real heatsoak going on, hence the drop in performance, but it seems more likely to me that it is heat accumulating in the engine.  If it is affecting the intercooler in any way, it would be because it is right in front of the radiator and, with a reduced air stream, heat from the radiator is moving forward into the intercooler.

So, at stock boosts or those relatively close (such as GMPP), I expect the stock IC is fine, unless there are charged air flow resistance issues through the IC that a larger intercooler could help with.  But, I also would not be surprised if some the larger boost increases now being seen - 25-30 psi - would require a larger IC because higher boost means higher inlet temps going in to the IC requiring greater cooling to get it down where we want it.
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Offline Kenny

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Re: Uh-Oh 2.0
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2009, 03:12:35 PM »
Be careful about thinking the suspension is going to keep you from spinning it. If anything all the racing bits will make the car more likely to spin.

Also if you don't know what you are doing when setting up suspension it could be even worse than stock safety wise. Choosing your own spring rates and screwing around with adjustable shocks could make the car do funky things in extreme circumstances.

Also what feels better is not always what is giving you the most traction.
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