Topic: GMPP Tune for GXP and Redlines

[snaponbob]

OK here is what has floated to the top, it will cost at a minimum $250 to buy the sensors in Europe and that is with some one time discounts. Figure more that that if we want more than one set. Then if you figure shipping and the hassle for someone to go and get them. It works out better for most of us to just buy the whole kit from Crate Engine Depot or somewhere else. I think that is what Lyndon is going to do, and me too. If you ever sell the car you can put the factory GMPP tune back in it and the new owner is good to go with GM.

Now, where did you come up with THAT?!?!?!!    :wink:

Check your e-mail.

[lil goat]

Crate engine Depot is about $550 and no tax, $8 shipping. I have someone that can get the sensors in Europe, I have read my email. A set of sensors are being ordered to verify that they are in fact the right sensors, they are going to Lyndon. I think for most people it is easier to order from Crate or GM Direct or wherever they choose, chasing the sensors and o-rings and connectors is a pain. Should there be an issue down the road, and the dealer see's the spliced TMAP wires and new sensors, might be worth the money to have bought the tune. I have HP tuners and can always load the GMPP tune back in before I go for service. I am meeting with the Service manager at my local dealer tomorrow, to see if I can work a deal out on the kit. I am shooting for pay full price and get a free install, or maybe a bit better.

[chuckdoc]

Here is an interesting summation post from WWIflyingAce 

"Hey there everyone- I was at MECCA 2 when they announced the GMPP stage 2 kit and have been eagerly waiting for it ever since…I have been compiling the “lessons learned” from all the forum threads I have seen with information that the early adopters have provided and I offer it here for reference…please if I forgot something feel free to add it…it is not a comprehensive list but it is the important stuff I have seen mentioned up to now:

Be sure the following three data points are provided to the dealer before they begin the install of the GM stage 2 kit:
• Check to be sure o rings are not rotten/old/splitting and replace if needed (cannot reuse ones on car with new kit…new parts have to be acquired if provided o rings are bad)
• Have service tech start reflash conversation with GM at start of install, then begin working on the sensors to save shop time.
• Cannot reflash with tech2, must use passthrough. MDI tool will also allow the flash to work properly.

If they DO have to use the tech2, the following should be considered:
• (http://www.gmde.net/images/mdi.pdf “link describes the passthrough procedure via tech2.”)
• Provide the correct cal number as listed on the pages supplied with the kit. The original cal instead of the new cal will not work.
• If using tech2, the cal had to be loaded from the computer into the tech2 via ethernet cable with the aldl cable disconnected. Then the aldl cable had to be connected and the ethernet cable had to be disconnected from the tech2 to transfer the cal to the ecu or it wouldn't work. Having both cables connected at the same time seemed to be a big problem. Although both had to be connected to prove the vin number so the new cal could be downloaded from the remote site. Passthrough on the tech2 appeared to transfer the cal, but when the ecu info was read back, it was the old cal, so passthrough was not used to make it finally work.
• the baro parameter when observed on the tech2 is an ambient atmospheric reading.

Man I can't wait to order mine in the spring! Many thanks to all those on the "bleeding edge" willing to take the plunge and get the kit as soon as it was available...the stuff you have found out will help your fellow owners avoid headaches!"

[Whip]

I'm having my GMPP tune installed today at the dealership.  Now if the roads would just dry off and the ice and snow would melt I could possibly see just how good this really is.  I'm a bit concerned to really try and open it up with the road conditions we have right now in Pennsylvania with more to come this weekend.

As soon as the weather and my schedule permits, I'm going to have Joe read my tune since mine is a manual versus Chuckdoc's automatic.  I'll keep everyone posted once I get the opportunity to crank it.

[GXPinKC]

Congrats Whip!  I am sure you will love it.  Seat of the Pants with control, has always been my slogan.  Have fun, be safe.  Can't wait to hear your response.  You might have to talk my wife Carol into it!  I will be on the edge of my seat. 
GXPinKC
Ron

[Whip]

Had my GMPP tune installed on Thursday.  Due to wet, rainy, and icy roads I was only able to open her up for a short stretch on my way home.  The only thing I have to say is.......

Holy Afterburners, Batman!!!!

I hit 21 psi of boost in 2nd gear and the accelerator was not to the floor.  Had to cut back quickly as I was running out of dry road.  Will post more later when I have better driving conditions.  More snow on the way today.

I'm sure you are already aware of the Bosch part numbers for the TMAP sensors, but just in case, it is GM# 55206797.  The dealer gave me my old sensors and placed them inside the boxes of the new sensors.  They orginated in Germany and the address to Bosch is on the boxes if anyone needs it.

[snaponbob]

Had my GMPP tune installed on Thursday.  Due to wet, rainy, and icy roads I was only able to open her up for a short stretch on my way home.  The only thing I have to say is.......

Holy Afterburners, Batman!!!!

I hit 21 psi of boost in 2nd gear and the accelerator was not to the floor.  Had to cut back quickly as I was running out of dry road.  Will post more later when I have better driving conditions.  More snow on the way today.

I'm sure you are already aware of the Bosch part numbers for the TMAP sensors, but just in case, it is GM# 55206797.  The dealer gave me my old sensors and placed them inside the boxes of the new sensors.  They originated in Germany and the address to Bosch is on the boxes if anyone needs it.

Bosch will NOT sell them directly to end users. Lyndon has a pair coming at an as yet unknown cost possibly through a German chain store similar to Pep Boys. I have arranged at GMPP kit at a very nice deal through a Chevy Parts Mgr I know. I contacted an Italian Bosch distributor but they can not export.

That said, the same Parts Mgr opined GM may have these sensors available later in 2009. His feelings were based on the history of the GMPP supercharger kit for the earlier Cobalts. There were some problems with the belts being spit off and they were not available separately for about six months. Eventually all parts of that kit were available separately. So there is hope for us.

[RUTurbo]

In the spring I'm looking to do a combo Wester's/GM Stage 2, I already have a HP Tuners hand held, what would be the the best to upgrade first?? Stage 2 because the sensors will be useful? Or Wester's because of the more agressive tune  / full capability of the new sensors can not be realized without upgraded turbowheel / larger turbo upgrade??

[snaponbob]

Too early for an answer. Lyndon will a GMPP tune kit and extra sensors soon and will start working with it. I am sure we will all hear about his results soon enough.

[RUTurbo]

Cool thanks, I'm in no rush, hopefully by the time I'm ready for the upgrade we will know more.

[GXPinKC]

Time is on our side.  Lots to consider with all the variables with the Tunes available to us.  Each person in the market must make a decision best suited for them.  It is good to consider all that has been posted on this forum with regards to this topic, then pull the trigger if that is your wish.  Better to make an informed decision rather than a hasty one!

[spicy3480]

Lyndon is one of the best, so if he can't make any more power with it, noone can.  I am sure he will be able to really unleash the true potential of this motor.  The limit will be our turbo. 

[frankc5r]

I have the Westers tune and it worked very well,so well that the clutch in my SS would slip
in 4th or 5th gear. I had Lyndon send me the "hot" tune which is about 20-21 psi depending
on how you set the WG rod.
Few days ago, I had GM stage kit installed and I have some comments from my tests with
it compared to Westers at similar boost levels. Sending the hpt file ( 5 spd) to Lyndon for
his analysis and mods.

First the boost on Westers hits alot harder, comes in sooner and faster. GM tune feels softer
on bottom but then comes in harder and pulls similar to Westers in higher rpms. Those with
automatics may not feel the softness as much.

I was lucky enough to be able to give my comments to the engineer responsible for the kit
and he said my comments are a good match to what they tried to do.
The GM stage cal is pretty much stock under 2500 rpm, higher boost is ramped in from
2500-3000, the full cal boost is allowed above 3000 or so. That is what I see but the roads
around here are bad now ( 10 in of snow). 2nd/3rd I gear I see 15-16 in 3000 area rapidly
rising to 20-21 at higher rpm. Have not spent alot of time at higher rpm as roads are
so crappy.
BIG DEAL: The clutch no longer slips in 4th and 5th gear. The race Westers tune is about
350-360 ft# according to Lyndon. I guess the hot tune I was using is about 325 ft#.
The SS GM tune is stated as 315 ft# but I have shortned the wg mod some.
I think part of the reason the clutch is better is the boost hit/rise is softer with GM tune.

Would like to hear from others with GM tune as to what they see for boost in 3rd gear
at 2500, 3000 3500 and up rpms to see how it compares to my experience and the
comments from the design engineer.

[spicy3480]

Your explanation of your experience is similar to what i have heard other people say.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[lil goat]

The big difference I don't see yet is how will the the change from a 2.7 BAR MAP to a 3 BAR sensor will change the Westers tune, it would seem Lyndon is making more power even with the stock MAP sensors, I am very excited to see what he can do with the new MAP sensors and the knowledge gained from looking at what GM did. I think we will have the combination of the best of both soon. I expect Lyndon to have a few issues getting things nailed down due to him being in the frozen North but should have a smokin' hot tune sometime early spring, thanks to those early adopters making data available to Lyndon!

[DeepBlueGXP]

Addional information for those obtaining the GM Stage II Tune and have received a CEL with code P2227

DTC P2227 After Turbo Upgrade Kit Installation - (Jan 13, 2009)

Models:
2008-2009 Chevrolet HHR SS
2008-2009 Chevrolet Cobalt SS
2007-2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2007-2009 Saturn Sky Redline
With 2.0L RPO LNF


The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
A technician may comment that DTC P2227: Barometric Pressure (BARO) Sensor Performance has set after installation of the Accessory/Performance Parts Turbo Upgrade kit for the 2.0L RPO LNF Turbocharged engine.

Recommendation/Instructions:
The DTC P2227: Barometric Pressure (BARO) Sensor Performance will only set if the calibration was not completed successfully or was not installed. This is a Type-B DTC and will only set upon a second drive cycle after the diagnostic runs and fails. This calibration installation can be verified by checking the calibration/SW part numbers using the Tech2 after the new cal is flashed. Those can then be checked against what should be flashed to confirm the correct calibration was actually installed.

Note: Anytime an ECM/PCM is replaced, has DTCs cleared, an updated cal installed or is SPS programmed, the technician should drive the vehicle at least 2 drive cycles to verify the service/repair.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

[Imaj]

okay...correct me if I am wrong...But is this the current status on the GM/Westers tune...

Lyndon has the GM tune and is working on it now.

Is Lyndon's stock tune, faster at the moment than the GM tune?

Does anyone have numbers bhp/torque with his race tune?

Will Lyndon's stock race tune eliminate the learn down process?

Does one have to get the full GM tune for Lyndon new tune to work or do you just need the sensors and the Westers stock tune?

Thanks!

[DeepBlueGXP]

Lyndons current Race tune is much faster than the Stage II tune. 

Lyndon has a GM Stage II Tune from an automatic, still needs a read from a manual.

Lyndon's Base tune will take your HP260/TQ260 to 310/330

Yes the RACE tune eliminated the learn down process.  I've had it for almost a year now with constant 21/22 PSI boost.

No you don't need the Stage II upgrade for the Race tune to work, the Stage II sensor, theoretically, will allow more power out of the stock turbo once Lyndon finishes programming it.   


Werks on the SF has dyno'd the GM Stage II with only about the low 200s to the rear wheels.

Currently I have over 280 RWHP with just the race tune, Solo CAT and Magnaflow and K&N drop in.  When I get the sensors, Lyndon should be able to get another 30 HP to my engine.

[lil goat]

Hey DBG you were a little off on the HP numbers you compared BHP factory numbers to RWHP Westers numbers. I will use my numbers as an example
Factory RWHP 221 TQ 241 Westers RWHP 287 TQ 313 or in BHP Factory 260 TQ 260 Wester's  BHP 336 TQ 366, that is using a 17% loss. for the drive train. That was from my best run, but I believe with the current tune it would be about 10% higher.

Here is the advantage of the new TMAP sensors that Wester's will be taking advantage of. The current sensors on the car 2.7 BAR can only achieve 25 PSI as a max with a 4.9 V input from the ECM. The new 3.0 BAR sensors can achieve 29 PSI with a 4.9 V input. In the real world what this works out to is Lyndon should be able to make our cars hold about 25 PSI at full boost, that is a big jump.

[GXPinKC]

So, if I was to decide to get the GMPP tune for our Manual 2007 GXP, and it would be the 91 octane tune, since we can't get 93 octane in Kansas, that would be available on the Westers, what differences have you noticed between the two tunes.  By that, I am referring to 91
GMPP tune and Westers tune with the 93 octane?  Just a pre-decision question.

[DeepBlueGXP]

91 should work also

[MGar]

The following should be noted.
I'm having issues with 91 octane, and the GM tune.
I am not the only one.  So far, the only thing that seems to be in common between myself and the others that have noted the same issue, is that we both have the GMPP CAI.

However, if I run a mix of 100/91 to come out to around 93-94 octane, I have no problems.

[snaponbob]

The following should be noted.
I'm having issues with 91 octane, and the GM tune.
I am not the only one.  So far, the only thing that seems to be in common between myself and the others that have noted the same issue, is that we both have the GMPP CAI.

However, if I run a mix of 100/91 to come out to around 93-94 octane, I have no problems.

WHAT problems?

[MGar]

The car will cut out, and fall on it's face around 5-5.5K in 3rd & 4th.  It will then pick up, and go again, but it's a serious detriment to performance, and longevity, given that it is indeed a knock event as I think it is.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Perhaps, you can use octane booster with 91 gas