Topic: Kappa Specific Sound Deadening Kits

[Rudeboy]

Here's what you would need for a complete car from the standard catalog - seems to work for both the convertible and coupe and for the Solstice and Sky.

45 CLD Tiles @ 2.25 = $101.25
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope @ 8.75 = 8.75
1 67.5 ft² roll MLV @ 150.66 = 150.53
7 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.55 = 101.85
1 Velcro Patches, adhesive 2 sides, 10-pack @ 14.65 = 14.65
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Cement @ 9.50 = 9.50

Sub Total: $386.53
Shipping will depend on your location

Wyatt (TecSolOnt) managed to get some CCF behind the MLV on the back wall. This is a good idea.

The MLV roll is 54" wide which works out very well for this project. Cut two 18" pieces for the the doors and trim the length to 37". The back wall wants a 36"X54" slice. The floor needs two 26"X54" pieces.

CLD Tile distribution is pretty simple: 5 each outer door skin. Cut 1 tile into smaller pieces for the inner door skin. The floor gets 14 (remove the stock deadener first) distributed over the resonant, unsupported areas. 4 for the back wall and 9 for the trunk.

If you want to treat less than the full car, let me know and I'll figure out what you need.

Thank you.

[Critterman]

Rudy,
What would the install run for locals at you shop?

[Rudeboy]

Rudy,
What would the install run for locals at you shop?

Sorry Critterman, this is strictly DIY. While it isn't difficult, it is time consuming. I'm working on the step-by-step right now.

[LiquidPT]

 

what's the reason for the different floor packages?

[Rudeboy]

I'll get to that in the details, but the less expensive one is meant to use if you leave the stock vibration damper in place - it has 6 CLD Tiles instead of 14 since there's not a lot of point in placing vibration damper on top of vibration damper. The stock material is not very effective but it will take a few hours to remove. If the stock stuff is in good shape, there's not a huge performance gain to be had from replacing it, but it will very likely deteriorate after a few years since it is asphalt.

[spicy3480]

That's a very nice price...about 360 for everything.  I will be getting this for the meet in October...now if only Joe will help me with the install.

[LiquidPT]

I'll get to that in the details, but the less expensive one is meant to use if you leave the stock vibration damper in place - it has 6 CLD Tiles instead of 14 since there's not a lot of point in placing vibration damper on top of vibration damper. The stock material is not very effective but it will take a few hours to remove. If the stock stuff is in good shape, there's not a huge performance gain to be had from replacing it, but it will very likely deteriorate after a few years since it is asphalt.

OK, that's kinda what I figured... My car is brand new, so it should be in good shape..

I'll eventually need to figure out the trunk on a coupe. I want to pull the carpet anyways to run some LEDs, but Joe might beat me to it.

[Rudeboy]

Doors
First you have to take them apart. Disconnect the negative battery terminal. Remove the phillips head screw on the end of the door.


Unclip this cover by moving the tab (to the left on this side) and pulling the cover out.


Remove the phillips head behind the cover.


Pop out this panel.


Remove the 2 bolt head screws.


The trim panel is now only held in place by plastic clips. Pull it straight out, starting at the bottom. A panel popper will be very helpful. When it come free lift it over the lock knob to give yourself some space and disconnect the wire harness connectors and the door handle cable.

Peel off the vapor guard and throw it away. The adhesive is a very gooey butyl compound. The best way to clean it up is to roll some up into a ball and use that to poke at the adhesive still on the door. It will pull it right off.


Remove the bolt head screw at the top of the speaker.


Pull the top of the speaker away from the door until you hit the clip. Press down on the clip from the top to release the speaker. Disconnect the wire harness.


Working through the large access hole, remove the black styrofoam block. There are 3 christmas tree clips holding it in place. Work them free with a screwdriver or panel popper and work the block out of the door. You will be putting this back after applying CLD Tiles to the exterior sheet metal. Don't Forget!

Grab hold of the stock butyl/foil vibration damper and pull it out. We'll be replacing it with something much more effective. Pick out any butyl that separates from the foil.


Here's what the block looks like out of the car


Now you're ready to install the materials in the door kit.

[Rudeboy]

Door Kit - Part 2

Time to install the CLD Tiles to the exterior door skin. You will be installing 3 tiles above the crash intrusion protection structure and a 4th - cut in half along its length. Wipe down the surface with denatured alcohol to remove dirt and any greasy residue. No matter how clean your car is, the insides of your doors are probably dirty.

The best way to install the tiles is to peel back an inch or so of the release paper, press the tile in place and start peeling and pressing until you have the paper completely off. You don't want any air bubbles between the tile and the sheet metal. Go over the tile with a roller.


Put the styrofoam block back in

To seal or not to seal?
I always seal the access holes in the doors I work on. The advantages are that it reduces noise transmission, makes the door more rigid and less resonant and turns your door into something closer to a proper speaker enclosure. The down side is that the edges of the holes aren't all in one plane so you can't just cut a piece of aluminum stock and screw it in place unless you are pretty good at shaping sheet metal. You can do this with a variety of materials but you want the covers to be as rigid as possible, waterproof, non-corroding and removable.

I made fiberglass covers for Bobby's doors. This is a good way to go but it is very time consuming. I'm not going to show the details of how I built them because I really don't want to encourage anybody to do this unless they have experience working with the stuff.


John and I did his doors using a double layer of aluminum flashing you can buy in the roofing department at Home Depot with a layer of butyl between the to layers of aluminum. This isn't as rigid as fiberglass, but you can cut the flashing with heavy scissors. The sandwich is flexible enough to be pushed into the contours and the butyl layer makes it very non-resonant. This image also shows how you should cut up and apply a CLD Tile to the interior door skin.


Here's how to make the flashing "sandwich". Cut your 2 matching pieces of flashing for each hole. Partially cover one side with Extruded Butyl Rope. Press the 2 sides together with the butyl at the center. Put the sandwich on some aluminum foil and put it in a 250°F oven for 30 minutes. Take it out and go over it with a roller. This flattens the butyl and spreads it over the entire surface.


Whatever you make the covers out of, run a bead of Exruded Butyl Rope around the mounting surface before pressing them in place. This will improve the seal and will add more vibration damping to the door. Hold in place with self tapping screws or a fastener of your choice. Remember that doors are exposed to water. If you drill pilot holes for your fasteners, priming and painting them is a good idea. I use a good coating of Loctite too.

Next up - applying the mass loaded vinyl and closed cell foam.

[Rudeboy]

Door Kit - Part 3

Now we're ready to fit the mass loaded vinyl (MLV) to the interior door skin. The goal is to cover as much of the door as we can and still get the trim panel back on. Any holes we make in the MLV to fit wires and for the door open cable to pass through should be as small as possible. If we make a mistake, it can be repaired using HH-66 Vinyl Cement.

First hang the MLV using Velcro patches. The patches are large enough and strong enough that you should cut them in half for easier positioning. Peel the release film off of one side of the Velcro and press it onto the door along the top edge where you will be mounting the MLV. Repeat so that you have two mounting points. Peel the release film off of the the 2 Velcro pieces mounted to the door. Align the MLV and press into place. To assure that the Velcro adhesive is firmly affixed, Peel the MLV off the door, separating the hook and loop sides of the Velcro. Press down the sides mounted to the door and the sides mounted on the MLV.


This shows the positions of the Velcro patches after the door is complete. At this point just put 2 along the top and the one at the top right doesn't need to be a whole strip.


Trim the MLV to allow clearance for the clips.


Pull the egg crate looking plastic piece off - it's just hot glued in place. Throw it away.


Take note of the bracket and screw slots.


Here you can see the cutout for the bracket and the hole I'll have to come back and fix.


Remove the MLV from the door and lay it inside the trim panel for fine tuning. There's a lot of information in this photo.
1) I cut the MLV to allow the bracket in the last photo to just fit through. I then covered the hole with a scrap of 1/4" CCF using HH-66 Vinyl Cement. This way, when you screw the trim panel back down you will still have a tight seal and the CCF will eliminate any possibility of rattling.

2) This was a mistake I made and repaired with a scrap of MLV using HH-66. When I had the MLV mounted to the door I cut the MLV to match the hole behind the handle. Not necessary - plenty of clearance without cutting the MLV. HH-66 creates a bond that is stronger than the vinyl itself. No harm no foul.

3) The MLV overlaps the black styrofoam inside the trim panel. This will make the trim panel impossible to get back on. You'll need to cut the styrofoam down 1/8". I used a sanding drum on a Dremel - zip zip, done.

Finally, notice the little extension pieces of MLV on the left side and the bottom. Again. MLV scraps and HH-66. May as well fill that panel as much as possible. Also notice the amount of clearance around the clips and alignment rods.


Getting ready to wrap this up. Here ou can see the error I made (and repaired)  and the extra holes for the lock knob, handle cable, etc. Make sure that the hole you cut for the lock knob rob has enough clearance for both locked and unlocked positions. I cut the MLV so that it exactly fit the speaker opening so that the speaker goes back on top of the MLV. I've also added 1/4" CCF to the surface of the MLV using HH-66. You want to add as much as will fit.


Reassemble door. Done.

[Rudeboy]

Floor Kit
First things first. If you are going to do the Floor Kit you really ought to do the back wall kit too and at the same time. You need to remove the back wall to do the floor and the two areas sort of run together.

Remove the negative battery terminal.

Slide the seat forward and move the seat back forward to give yourself some space. Remove the nuts holding the seat down. Unscrew the black plastic carpet hold down. It has an allen wrench fitting but you can unscrew it by hand. (Battery not required )


Slide the seat back and remove the front nuts. Tip the seat back and disconnect the wire harness connector(s). Lift the seat out of the car. Remove the other seat. Pop the door sills off.

Remove the back wall side trim pieces. That's Bobby, but it's my pink panel popper so you can't hold that against him ) Remove the speaker connector.


Pop of the center console/hump trim . Pop off the back wall trim.




Remove the dead pedal and remove the carpet from both sides.

You should be looking at this.


Next - to scrape or not ...

[Rudeboy]

Floor Kit - Part 2
Here we are. Notice the box bolted to the passenger side floor. Remove the nuts that hold it down and remember its orientation. We're going to cut the CCF and MLV so that it still makes contact with the floor when we put it back.


This where you decide which Floor Kit you will be buying based on whether or not you want to scrape out the factory vibration damping on the floor. It looks OK in this picture but it had lifted up from the floor in a few places and had never been bonded to the floor in others. Air space between a vibration damper and the substrate renders the vibration damper completely worthless.

I was pretty disappointed to run into this stuff in this car. It's asphalt with some sort of metallic/metalized coating on top. Right next to it there is a very high quality material used on the center hump. For whatever reason they cheaped out big time on the floor. I won't go into all of the reasons why asphalt is a very poor vibration damper and why it shouldn't be considered a permanent material for use in motor vehicles.

The fact is, if yours is in reasonable shape, there will only be a small improvement in noise reduction if you talk it out. We're going to go over this surface with CCF and MLV anyway and that will account for most of the noise attenuation. Whether you leave it or take it out is going to be ore a function of the kind of person you are. If trading 2 hours of your life seems absolutely worth it to know that you have done everything possible or if you want to know that the vibration damper on the floor won't be causing any problems in 20 years, take it out. You know who you are If you are going to leave it in there, go ahead and skip to the next section.

Now that the slackers are gone we can get down to business The good news for those of you who will be removing the asphalt is that asphalt melts at 180°F. That's bad for durability but means you can scrape most of it out with a heat gun and a putty knife. Being careful not cut into the e-coat, warm an edge of the asphalt, slip the putty knife under it and work you way across.


Once you've gotten everything up you can by heating and scraping, use a shop vac to get up all of the brown grit you couldn't pick up by hand.


Now it's time to add some mineral spirits. You'll also need some rags or paper towels. Pour an ounce or so of mineral spirits onto an area with residue remaining. Spread it out with your putty knife and let it set for a minute or so. Use the putty knife to gently scrape the residue away. Use a rag to wipe up the glop. When you're done, Put some mineral spirits on a rag and wipe the surface down. Finish up with a denatured alcohol wipe down to get rid of any oily residue. Now you have a nice clean floor. You get points for dedication. If you want points for being a hard-ass, use an acetylene torch like Bobby did on his side.


Next - applying CLD Tiles to the floor.

[Rudeboy]

Floor Kit - part 3 We start installing stuff!

If you left the stock vibration damper in place, your best bet is to apply the 6 CLD Tiles in your kit to the untreated portions of the floor. There isn't much to be gained by applying them on top of the existing material.


If you took your floor down to the e-coat, something like this is the way to go. The brown stuff you see isn't rust. It's asphalt dust that stuck to the joint caulk because we didn't have a shop vac to suck it up. Won't hurt anything.


Everybody's the same from here on out. Lay one of the CCF sheets on the floor and trim it to just cover the horizontal surface. Here you can see the cut-out for the block that bolts to the floor.


Lay the MLV on the floor. You want it to run up the door sill a litle bit, up the firewall/foot well as far as it will reach and as far up the center hump as it will reach. Press down on the MLV above the threaded studs and they will break through. Make sure to get them all. You will have to cut slits to get around the corners. Do it in a way that the resulting flaps overlap.



 You could put everything back together now, but since we've already agreed that you will do the floor and the back wall at the same time, I'll move on to the back wall next.

[G8TR]

Rudy,
When will you be posting the back wall install?

[Rudeboy]

Rudy,
When will you be posting the back wall install?

I'll be finishing up this week.

[KWhale]

Rudy, these instructions are amazing!  Even for people who are not doing the sound deadening, the how-to-take-things-apart value is off the charts.  Thanks for taking the time to take all the pictures and posting them here.

[Rudeboy]

Rudy, these instructions are amazing!  Even for people who are not doing the sound deadening, the how-to-take-things-apart value is off the charts.  Thanks for taking the time to take all the pictures and posting them here.

Happy to do it. These cars are actually very nice to work on - the parts fit together very well and are designed to maintain their fit after repeated disassembly/assembly.

[bluemangxp]

Very nicely done how-to. Thanks for all the hard work and sharing with the members

[Treeman]

Wow - great how-to!  Thanks! 

Adding up the weight, it comes to 75 lbs.  In an earlier thread, you mentioned CLD tiles only would help and they would be about 6 lbs.  Can you talk a bit more about this choice - how much would the CLD tiles help in comparison to the full kit and also what would be the pricing for that?

[BeachParty]

Rudy, these instructions are amazing!  Even for people who are not doing the sound deadening, the how-to-take-things-apart value is off the charts.  Thanks for taking the time to take all the pictures and posting them here.

Totally agree!! I love your attention to detail. Thank you!!

[Rudeboy]

Appreciate it folks - now I'll have to finish

[Sly Bob]

Was this thread finished somewhere else Don? I'm anxious to see how it ends.

[Rudeboy]

Was this thread finished somewhere else Don? I'm anxious to see how it ends.

Only in my head so far. It turns out that I don't have many good photographs of the back wall or the trunk - sort of the inevitable result of leaving them for last on hot days. It may have to wait until after the eet.

[lil goat]

I volunteer to be the model at the meet, I will wear my sexy shorts, oh wait you want pictures of the car, I can still wear my sexy shorts.

[Sly Bob]

If sexy shorts are involved, I don't want to know how it ends!