Author Topic: Starting Turbo Swap Plans. Need Advice (Read 6873 times)

AdamVIP · « **on:** August 07, 2009, 03:45:09 PM »

The last of my suspension parts are en route to my home so I have now officially started saving for a turbo swap. The promise of breaking the 255kPa limit have me all sorts of excited and Id like to start planning my swap with the help of the turbo experts.

Here are my main goals.

- ~ 350 to 400 WHP
- As little lag as possible

Here are my restraints that Im being held to:

- GMPP sensors and tuning = max 27psi

Here are my questions:

1) What kind of flow would I need to achieve from a turbo to hit 350 to 400 at the wheels?
2) Whats the smallest turbo that can achieve that flow within the 28 psi constraint?
3) Are any of the already available swap kits up to this task?
4) How far off do you think we are in tuning to pull this off?
5) Is this possible while retaining my RPi high flow cat?

LatinVenom · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:51:35 PM »

Werks has the turbo upgrade system you have posted.
Although Lag is there.
They have the information on their web site.

Filipp · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:15:43 PM »

If I was in your situation Adam I would go for a Mitsu 20g turbo. From what I have seen the Mitsu 20g turbos spool up pretty fast and still have good power. I think with the 20g turbo + all the bolt on's such as intercooler, downpipe and etc you would hit 400rwhp.

Dejon offers the 16g turbo and with it he got 312rwhp 360rwtq. He now just started offering the Mitsu 20g but hasn't posted any dyno's yet. Dejon says they designed it so the turbo just bolts up basically. So I would go with that route if it was for my personal car. I would contact Dejon with your questions and ask him since he is pretty knowledgeable about turbo upgrades.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2009, 08:37:14 AM »

DDM is supposedly working on a twincharge setup. I think it's on a 2.4

Best of both worlds with twincharging.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2009, 08:42:22 AM »

Dejon has a kit for 500 HP at the crank. You'll get around 400WHP with that

They aren't too expensive either.

"Garrett GT3076 Ball Bearing, Water-Cooled Turbo Kit for S/S rated (engine)500hp with .48AR turbine housing
This is the COMPLETE kit of everything you need (same as above)"

Looks like that'll run you about 2,500 bucks once you add the BOV

Deep-GXP · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:13:13 PM »

I like your style Adam, we have the same goals! lol
I was looking into the 20g from Dejon but I havnt yet seen the Dyno/Track results from it

But the 20g definitely seems like the way to go to keep lag to the minimum and it should at the very least give you 350rwhp but 400 would be better

Imaj · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2009, 05:44:40 PM »

I too am in the market for a turbo upgrade. I was told by one vender that the 20g with a meth kit, bigger intercooler, pipes (Both front and back) and a tune will net you around 380whp.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2009, 06:59:17 PM »

How much is methanol for the water meth kit?

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:10:37 PM »

They are normally about $350.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #9 on:** August 08, 2009, 09:16:25 PM »

I meant the actual methanol you have to put into the tank

Imaj · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2009, 10:09:33 PM »

I believe you can use windshield washer fluid if that gives you an idea on cost.

elff · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2009, 11:39:48 PM »

Is that why people just use the Windshield washer bottle for the meth container?

Has anyone talked with Dejon Dave about his GMPP tune and is it in regards to swapping in a different turbo
or, is section 3b below for turbo swap or no turbo swap?

Quote from: Dejon Website

MORE PERFORMANCE - What to buy, and when for your Solstice GXP or Sky Redline

The stock fuel system, engine internals and drive train will support the factory turbo to its limits and larger turbos to about 400hp

Stage 1. Free or Low Cost - replace the factory air filter with a K&N drop in filter and shorten the waste-gate actuator rod. However the ECM will eventually return power to stock levels.

or install a Manual Boost Controller (MBC) and set boost at 18 to 20 psi. This will increase torque significantly over stock and slightly increase top end power without throwing error codes or limp mode. It is easily to remove.

Stage 2. get an ECM tune like ours or Wester's "Race" tune (note this may void your new car warranty) Get HP tuners VCM suite to install the tune yourself. This will set boost pressure and torque to about the max that the ECM will allow and increase the rev limiter. However top end power will be limited by factory turbo and intercooler. So in order of performance effectiveness, replace the Intercooler, Air Box with a low restriction Intake Pipe, Catback Exhaust and Intercooler Piping.

Stage 3a. Larger turbo. Select from the Mitsubishi 16g :375hp, Mitsu 20g: 425hp, Garrett 5457 :450hp, thru 6057:570hp or GT3076 (The stock turbo is rated at 260hp)

3b. Install the GM Performance tune and our Upgrade for it. This has been tested up to 28psi on 93 Octane gas without inducing "limp mode"

BSRL · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2009, 12:40:49 AM »

I've heard that Hahn is working on a Super 20G kit for the GXP/Redlines. Last I heard they were hung up on something with the autos and wanted to release the kit for both manuals and autos at the same time.

Filipp · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:16:06 AM »

Well Dejon already has a 20g kit on there site unless it doesn't work on auto's or somethin.

shabby · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:36:49 AM »

20g's were fine in the 90's, this is the 21st century now... its time to move on to ball bearing garrett's.
Dejon has plenty of ball bearing units, the gt3076r has tons of potential in the 25-30psi range but its somewhat laggy. The gt2871r is probably better suited for the 350-400rwhp range.

oldskool · « **Reply #15 on:** August 27, 2009, 09:04:04 AM »

Methanol at my local track is 3$/gallon. A gallon of 75:25 lasts me about 2-3 tanks of gas, so its really cheap IMO.

I would check out BTF's kits. Call him and see if he would estimate cost on a custom GT2871r kit (probably in the 2500-3000 range). This would put you right where you want to be - very little lag and enough flow for 350-400whp. Plus you could probably do it within the stock rev limits to avoid major fueling issues. Keep in mind though that meth injection provides a passive extra fuel source, which is great for us!

Kelu · « **Reply #16 on:** August 27, 2009, 11:10:11 AM »

Any real numbers on this kit including methanol kit? Like dyno/drag slips?
To me 350 - 400 whp looks like too wide, I wouldn't do it for 340-350 whp but definitely I will be convinced for 380-400 whp.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2009, 12:03:40 PM »

Lag all depends on the type of performance you are looking for. Driving around town lag is a problem, but on a racetrack where you are in the high RPMs most of the time it shouldn't matter as much right?

Also if you are the highway and wanna get from 60-120

Please someone correct my assumptions if I am wrong

elff · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2009, 12:27:17 PM »

They are correct
To add to it though
90-95% of peoples drive time is on the street where Lag would an issue.

Deep-GXP · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2009, 02:04:17 PM »

Quote from: elff on August 27, 2009, 12:27:17 PM

They are correct
To add to it though
90-95% of peoples drive time is on the street where Lag would an issue.

Correct. Street Driving and Canyon Driving when we go on meets and cruise

Even on the highway going from 60-120, im sure 350-400rwhp is plenty enough to accelerate quickly even with the smaller turbo.
Hell, I love how fast my car currently goes from 60-120, I cant imagine another 130-150hp on top of that (currently at 240).

kwtoxman · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2009, 04:56:17 PM »

Quote from: AdamVIP on August 07, 2009, 03:45:09 PM

Here are my main goals.

- ~ 350 to 400 WHP
- As little lag as possible

Here are my restraints that Im being held to:

- GMPP sensors and tuning = max 27psi

Here are my questions:

1) What kind of flow would I need to achieve from a turbo to hit 350 to 400 at the wheels?
2) Whats the smallest turbo that can achieve that flow within the 28 psi constraint?
3) Are any of the already available swap kits up to this task?
4) How far off do you think we are in tuning to pull this off?
5) Is this possible while retaining my RPi high flow cat?

I have been wanting the same thing for a while and carefully watching all the related boards.

Shabby is right. Go with a newer generation ball bearing turbo. It is worth it for the faster spool.

Based on my research the GT2871R is definitely in the range of where you want to be. Synapse turbo uses it on the cobalt lnf to the tune of 377 rwhp before the additional HP tuner beta removing overboost codes. You can read more on the net.

SF has some threads where posters think the disco potato (GT2860RS) should come into 350 rwhp range. But no one has really tried it on the LNF yet. This turbo will have less lag than the 2871R.

From what I've read both above should work as kits with the car in the 350 rwhp range. The 400 rwhp range and fueling becomes an issue because the ECM isn't fully cracked. The net really hasn't given much new information since HP tuners released the beta with the overboost code removed. So I can't tell how successful bigger turbos will work. The big wheel K04 turbos have scant information as well. The dyno #'s haven't really impressed me so I don't know what to think.

In my reading the following turbos are stepwise upgrades (but no 16/20G comparisons as I wan't interested in this older technology).

Big wheel (upgraded K04)
GT2860RS
GT2871R
GT3076R (this is larger, rated for 450+ rwhp, more laggy and AFAIK the ECM isn't cracked enough to fully utilize it)

HP tuners needs an update to get more of the ECM cracked. Are we close. It appears so, but things have progressed slowly so what does that mean? Following the HP tuners website helps. And the Cobalt SS forums have a wealth of info on this topic.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2009, 08:00:33 PM »

If I am at 60-80 and drop it to 4th I don't get as much umph as I would like

when I got the backbone my car got boring to drive because it is too stable

LatinVenom · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2009, 08:31:08 PM »

The problem that I have with those numbers are that they come from a Dyno Jet or similar, while on a true Eddy current Dyno setup with 0 compensation, the numbers will be far less than advertise.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2009, 09:32:04 PM »

Here is a Sky for sale with a bigger turbo. You can see what he has.
http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f30/big-turbo-sky-redline-sale-58979/

elff · « **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:53:15 AM »

For just under $24k. That's a great deal.
Kenny, did you happen to talk to him about the kit?

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Author Topic: Starting Turbo Swap Plans. Need Advice (Read 6873 times)