Topic: snaponbob and GXPinKC get a Dyno at MC Racing today, a dual appointment!

[GXPinKC]

Ah, gang, come one and all, what I have been promising to do finally got accomplished today with Bob and Rons Appointment for a Dyno at the premier Dyno Shop in the Kansas City area, i.e., none other than MC Racing.  They take care of some of the heavy stuff at the tracks, i.e., The Kansas City International Raceway, Lakeside Speedway, Thunder Lake Speedway, and the I 70 International Speedway that we all remember from that first Meet in Kansas City, Missouri organized by the one and only, Kathy Gee.  

Well back to topic:

As you know I had the Martin Tune done at the Denver National Meet, as well as the additions of the DDMWorks Race Backbone, and Probeam, and also Carol wanted the updated Windrestrictor added with the red light to match the exterior color and also the DDMWorks brake lite (Solstice) added center of the rear.  I still have not figured out how to add the Fuse Box Cover that I got in the mail some time back.  My wife thought it came ready to attach, uh, no, you have to follow the instructions, so for the moment, it is on the backburner until I get some free time.  As we are getting ready to head to the farm for a pleisure trip it will be put on the back burner. 

Well, back to topic.  Here are my figures for the MC Racing Dynojet Research that I had done.  MC Racing did three pulls for both of us. Here are mine:
CF:STD Smoothing: 5

Run File_001.drf Max Power = 223.22    Max Torque = 302.26
Run File_003.drf Max Power = 228.51    Max Torque = 307.54
Run File_002.drf Max Power = 221.49    Max Torque = 289.27

CF:STD Smoothing: 2

Run File_001.drf Max Power = 224.34    Max Torque = 303.44
Run File_002.drf Max Power = 222.38    Max Torque = 290.03
Run File_003.drf Max Power = 231.22    Max Torque = 309.14

Bob's (snaponbob) & Ron's (GXPinKC)
CF:STD Smoothing: 5

Run File_007.drf Max Power = 262.45    Max Torque = 312.18
Run File_003.drf Max Power = 228.51    Max Torque = 307.54

I posted the above figures and Bob (snaponbob) will follow with a further post to add his comments and expertise.  We both had a great time together this morning and the next time we get together we are going to switch and he is going to drive Miss Red Eagle and I get to drive his Lynden Wester Tuned rocket.

Oh, forgot to add the Run Conditions.  Here they are:  77.51 degrees F, 29.35 in-Hg, Humidity: 32%, STD:  1:03

Well Bob, have at it...

[elff]

Out of curiosity, what were Snap-on Bob's numbers?

[bones]

Those h.p. numbers seem pretty low. The torque looks good though. What does martin have to say?

[elff]

Without seeing a comparison on the same day, it's impossible to get a baseline

[GXPinKC]

Out of curiosity, what were Snap-on Bob's numbers?

snaponbob will post his numbers after I post mine.  We discussed while at MC Racing that we would each post, and Bob suggested that I post first.  As you can see, I did post his best time and my best time.  Of course snaponbob has the Lyndon Wester Tune and he has had several updates, I don't know the details on that but he can provide that information.

Bob, has added several performance upgrades to his, mine is completely stock, performance wise.  I do have the DDMWorks Race Backbone, and the Probeam added at the Denver Meet but they are not performance mods, just suspension mods.

[elff]

Your DDM products do not effect your results in any way.
They are suspension mods

[GXPinKC]

Elff, I am aware of that, just wanted to throw in the fact that I have these non performance Mods and of course they benefit suspension, cornering, etc.  And as you conclude have nothing to do with Performance.  Now, Bob's (snaponbob) performance mods I will leave to him to acknowledge.  As everyone knows, I have the Tune from Martin and snaponbob has the Lyndon Wester Tune.  So, there you have it. Lyndon Wester and Martin one on one, on the same day with back to back Dyno's.  One with many performance mods, one with no performance mods.

[snaponbob]

Both our run sets were recorded back to back. With a large squirrel cage fan running, the operator made sure the cars were to proper operating temps, slowing moved through the first three gears, and at about 22-2400 rpm dipped into the throttle to WOT at about 27-2800 rpm in fourth gear. TCS and ESC were turned off. We bot had print out using STD correction factor and Smoothing:2. I had them do that as this is what was done on mine in March, so I could get some relative comparison. for my runs. For me it was about 14 degrees warmer today than March, somewhat higher humidity today, and exactly the same baro pressures so the altitude of 900 MSL was essentially the same. Lyndon has been tweaking on my tune since March. I was a bit off put by 8hp loss at 5200rpm and 7 ft/lbs loss at 3200rpm. I did scan, save, and send the pulls to Lyndon for review. What I DID notice that IS a benefit is that there is a bit MORE torque and HP below 3000rpm, which IS good, and is greater than the peak losses. Down side is a bit of fall of of torque above 5200 rpm, but the HP trails off a bit less. Sort of a mixed bag. Significant was 3 degrees of KR from 3-5000rpm but AFR was SPOT on at 14.6 from 3-4000 rpm and richened up above 4200. So, Lyndon has my scans and dyno charts w/afr. Since people apparently have a need to name tunes, and since "George" was rejected in favor of "SS", I have asked L.W. to name mine "Fred". Oops. forgot the numbers!! 264.14HP and 311.48TQ today vs. 272.71 and 318.11 in March. Lyndon will tend to the tables and I'll be checking clamps even though there were no signs of problems. Mods are modified stock intake box with the same K&N, SP catless DP, Magnaflow exhaust with an SP front pipe to eliminate the 2.5" MF neck at the flare.

Ron's car is BONE stock except for the GMR tune. (We have already   the purchase, so let's not revisit it.) Except for a couple of "foops" out of the tailpipe during ONLY the first run up, his car ran clean. I watched the monitor and saw the typical GMR lean condition almost all the way to 5Krpm where it went to about 14.5-1 AFR. The traces were typical of the LNF engines with some evidence of a step at about 3100 +/- a few rpm.

Surprisingly, Ron's car with stock cat and exhaust is producing nearly as much torque as I am, but I have him covered by about 40HP with equal CF settings. Certainly, some of the difference is the tuning, but I am sure that the catless DP and MF exhaust is making a difference. What does all this prove? Not much except to reinforce what is already known about our cars. Hopefully, Lyndon will find some answers in the tune and I might find a loose clamp somewhere!!!!

A couple other subjective observations. I like the red lighting on Pontiac panels (but not enough to tear apart my dashboard!) and Sols look like electric razors, even strapped down to a dyno.  (Couldn't help myself.  So  )

[elff]

If you look back to the Dyno Day that Kenny, myself, Ken and Tammy did, we have very similar results.
We were also on a DynoJet.
What's really interesting is that the lone GMR tune on our day, produced almost exactly the same results as GXPinKC's
Tammy had 220-ish hp and similar torque to the rest of us

So I think the atmospheric conditions are making the results vary by a very small amount, but other than that, I think we are seeing consistent results.
Kenny had 264.8hp and 318tq
I had 262.8hp and 306tq
Ken had 266hp but I can't find his results at the moment.

It would be interesting to see your graphs just so we can note how the power is delivered

[snaponbob]

Here are the charts from August--



and March



Enjoy ----- for what it's worth.

[Uranium-238]

Looks like Lyndon worked out that dip at 3k.

[snaponbob]

Looks like Lyndon worked out that dip at 3k.

Seems to have resolved some of that. We'll see what has cost the peak power. Smoothing the powerband may have a price.

[tazz]

I do have one ?  Just really something I noticed when compared to a Dyno graph of one of my other vehicles. 
Does every Sol GXP Dyno graph look so turbulent?  Is this just the way 4cyl turbos look or is it because of 2 instaed of 3 smoothing?
The reason I ask is that I have a V8 supercharged truck and the Dyno graph with 3 smoothing and it way smoother than those graphs.  BTW Ive did my trucks dyno @ MC racing back in 04 & 05.

[snaponbob]

I do have one ?  Just really something I noticed when compared to a Dyno graph of one of my other vehicles. 
Does every Sol GXP Dyno graph look so turbulent? 

Pretty much. But they FEEL soooo SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeepBlueGXP]

a STD Smoothing of 5 takes all the bumps out.  That one shows a smoothing of 2 and there still appears to be a dip at 3k, just not as pronounced as before.

[LatinVenom]

On and Eddy Current type Dyno at 0 compensation the the numbers would be  240.36 RWHP, 283.45 torque assuming a 9 compensation for the DynoJet.
Now if we use a 5 compensation for the DynoJet the numbers are as follows: 250.93 RWHP and 295.90 torque.

Those are for Snaponbob:

Now for Ron's numbers on an Eddy Current Dyno:
207.94 RWHP (9 compensation on the DynoJet)
279.86 torque  
217.08 RWHP  (5 compensation on a DynoJet)
292.16 torque

The above are closer to the REAL numbers  and if you do not believe me ask Lyndon what the TRUE numbers would be using his Dyno.



 

[snaponbob]

Lyndon admits that his dyno is VERY conservative. In discussing results on my car, I can't give a hoot HOW much the output is, rather what the CHANGE is. That has been  . Since I was on that same dyno (that is well maintained) in very similar weather, so since it was done using STD smoothing 2, I requested a print out with the same factors. L.W. has not yet responded but most likely will have another tweak (I have decided to name a tune and mine is "Fred"), so we'll see what the scan on Fred looks like after a few drive cycles. If the boost is more stable and the KR is eliminated then I am probably not going to waste time and money on another dyno session.

[Critterman]

I hope fred works for you but if you do have to tweak it, you will have to call it freddie

[snaponbob]

I hope fred works for you but if you do have to tweak it, you will have to call it freddie

What part of Fred do YOU want tweaked?!?!?!?! 

[Critterman]

Which ever part needs it    By the way thanks for all the advise, had a blast today, driver still needs a lot of work, but I think the car is good to go.

[2kwk4u]

...  and Sols look like electric razors, even strapped down to a dyno.  (Couldn't help myself.  So  )

Really?

[LatinVenom]

I fully understand that what you are looking for is the difference in numbers from the tune on the same Dyno.
However a lot of folks as you well know like to put the DYNOJET numbers and post about 300 RWHP and above for nothing more than bragging rights.
The above is prevalent on both the BB and SKY board.

[snaponbob]

I fully understand that what you are looking for is the difference in numbers from the tune on the same Dyno.
However a lot of folks as you well know like to put the DYNOJET numbers and post about 300 RWHP and above for nothing more than bragging rights.
The above is prevalent on both the BB and SKY board.

Tru dat. But my previous question still stands about WHICH dyno is actually accurate. Maybe next week I'll make some calls and listen to some lies.

[snaponbob]

Really?

(Image removed from quote.)

HA !!!!!!!!!!!!! NEITHER picture looks like an electric shaver, but that is a good looking Sky, and a very nice MANUAL shaving device.

[elff]

What type of Dyno do the car manufacturers use for their posted specs?