Topic: BC Coilover - questions about some details

[Kelu]

Hi guys,

Decide to go with full suspension kit instead of only lowering springs.

I did some research in my town and I found a tuning store which can bring me BC Racing coilovers fast and same price as those from US. But I'm unsure about some aspects.
1) They don't list products for Opel GT or for Saturn SKY, the only option is Pontiac Solstice 2006+ (doesn't say anything about the model NA/GXP). The product is listed as ZB-01, can someone confirm this is the correct one which will fit in my Opel GT?

2) There are 3 different models for this product with different prices:

• RUBBER TOP MOUNT - 1100$
• PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT ONLY FOR FRONT, RUBBER TOP MOUNT FOR REARS - 1250$
• INC PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT - 1400$

Someone knows which one I need?

3) Should I forget the local shop and buy from US?

[1KULSOL]

Hi guys,

Decide to go with full suspension kit instead of only lowering springs.

I did some research in my town and I found a tuning store which can bring me BC Racing coilovers fast and same price as those from US. But I'm unsure about some aspects.
1) They don't list products for Opel GT or for Saturn SKY, the only option is Pontiac Solstice 2006+ (doesn't say anything about the model NA/GXP). The product is listed as ZB-01, can someone confirm this is the correct one which will fit in my Opel GT?

2) There are 3 different models for this product with different prices:

• RUBBER TOP MOUNT - 1100$
• PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT ONLY FOR FRONT, RUBBER TOP MOUNT FOR REARS - 1250$
• INC PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT - 1400$

Someone knows which one I need?

3) Should I forget the local shop and buy from US?

Kelu,
take a look at this link ... it has some info that might help .... http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f138/team-solstice-official-product-review-bc-racing-coilover-system-56551/     .....

[Kelu]

Thank you 1KULSOL

The only info about my questions is:

One of the options for the system that you choose is pillow ball or rubber mounts. We opted for the pillow ball mounts. "Pillowball" is actually a spherical bearing, which replaces the soft rubber contact of the stock shock which flexes and causes friction loss during high hard driving.

Still couldn't to decide if I should go with Pillowball or rubber mounts. I will not go to AutoX or any circuit driving because is no circuit in Romania. On the streets I drive medium and I barely push it to the limits. I do drag races but suspension wasn't one of the top musts for this, actually I need very soft rear suspension for drag races if I'm not wrong.
I want this for overall improvement stability and for lowering my car. Still can't decide 

[Ben L]

Hi guys,

Decide to go with full suspension kit instead of only lowering springs.

I did some research in my town and I found a tuning store which can bring me BC Racing coilovers fast and same price as those from US. But I'm unsure about some aspects.
1) They don't list products for Opel GT or for Saturn SKY, the only option is Pontiac Solstice 2006+ (doesn't say anything about the model NA/GXP). The product is listed as ZB-01, can someone confirm this is the correct one which will fit in my Opel GT?

2) There are 3 different models for this product with different prices:

• RUBBER TOP MOUNT - 1100$
• PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT ONLY FOR FRONT, RUBBER TOP MOUNT FOR REARS - 1250$
• INC PILLOWBALL TOP MOUNT - 1400$

Someone knows which one I need?

3) Should I forget the local shop and buy from US?

(1)  Don't know.  Mine are on a 2007 GXP and the ones listed for "2006+ Solstice" fit fine.

(2)  Pillowball mounts are essentially spherical bearings rather than rubber bushings.  Their movement across the range of motion is precise (they do not compress or rebound as they load and unload) and they do not flex like rubber.  Upside:  they transfer motion more accurately and consistently, and do not bind.  Downside:  They might make some noise and may wear out faster than rubber. I got the pillowballs for the front and rear (mine came with pillowball front and rubber rear) but never changed out the rear.  I am happy with them, as installed.

(3)  The prices seem to be $100-$300 over market from US vendors, including on this site.  Mine (with pillowball fronts and an extra set of pillowball mounts for the rear) were just under $1000.  But after shipping to you in Eastern Europe, who knows?  All of the $990-999 sets I have seen from forum vendors and others here for the Solstice come with pillowball fronts, so I think its BS that they are treating that as an extra.

Most of what you are concerned with in drag racing is fore and aft damping and rebound, squat and dive, and I am not sure that spherical bearings would be an aid there, but I have driven in Europe (love it!).  If it were my car, I'd want as much precision in the suspension (particularly the front, which is the more dynamic of the two ends) as I could get, even if I was not doing any autocrossing or track driving (perish the thought).

I think that the damping, ride height and spring rate adjustment capabilities inherent in BC-style coilovers would be a benefit in drag race driving, so I think they have an advantage over the stockers for that reason.  But which mounts are best for going staight, I do not have an opinion.  

[Kelu]

Thank Ben for such an informative reply, really did helped.

The actual prices are:
a) Rubber mounts - 1310$
b) Front Pillowball and Rear rubber - 1450$
c) Front and Rear Pillowball - 1750$
But I'm using a good friend's premium customer discounts  and think those prices are considered good in this damn country.

Shipping to Eastern Europe shouldn't be more than 120$-190$ (I had my IC shipped for $115 which is same size but less weight) all that counts is if the vendor is offering "special features" to allow me not to pay full local taxes which in this case would be $250-$350.

I tried to find these from supporting vendors but those which are selling BC either don't ship using USPS or they don't have the "special features". I have emailed DDM because they said they have "special features" for europe orders but they don't list BC on their site and Mike@DDM said he will ask if they might sell it to me among other items which I want from them (ProBeam, CAI). I'm praying that I will be able to buy from them. 

As far as the mounts types 

[LatinVenom]

Kelu:
In case Dave\Randy cannot supply the BC coilovers, then buy them from one of the other supporting vendors and ask them to ship them to DDM.
This way you can get the "special features" DDM uses for shipping and the other items you are buying from them can all be boxed together.

[Kelu]

Thanks for the idea Alvaro, also I must ask DDM IF they are willing to do it.

I think I might use the "magic solution" and use a buddy from the forum on this and buy one from US and get rid of romanian high prices and headaches.

So ... going to Front and Rear pillowballs? 

[LatinVenom]

Kelu:
I really think that Randy \Dave will probably come thru with getting you the BC coilovers.
I also think they would not turn you down if you would have to have them accept the BC coilovers from another vendor.
If for some reason that is not the case (but I really do not think so) then one of us here could help you.

[wspohn]

Take a look at http://www.circuitmotorsports.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=90&zenid=58ab61c3e201dba5fd395d1a5c19e42d

Same thing for $999 plus shipping.  They UPS shipped mine directly from China at no extra cost as they didn't have them in stock when I ordered.

I would not get pillowball mounts - you don't need them and they will wear more quickly.

[Kelu]

wspohn: thank you for the mounts opinion 
On CircuitMotorsport site says "Free shipping"  I don't think those apply to european orders or 
UPS means full local taxes  ($250-$350)

[wspohn]

wspohn: thank you for the mounts opinion 
On CircuitMotorsport site says "Free shipping"  I don't think those apply to european orders or 
UPS means full local taxes  ($250-$350)

No, I used UPS but other methods can be arranged.  And if they ship straight from the factory in Taiwan, the shippers seem to have a flexible view of values for customs.......

[Sol Asylum]

No, I used UPS but other methods can be arranged.  And if they ship straight from the factory in Taiwan, the shippers seem to have a flexible view of values for customs.......

That may be but UPS likes to charge brokerage fees even when there is not a customs fee its just one more way that they can get some cash.

[wspohn]

Yes, I know - they'll hit you with a $30 charge for clearing customs even when there was no duty paid.  But in my case, there is apparently something about ovreseas air shipment that meant that I paid only $30 or so all in to get the package, and as I recall that was just local taxes on declared value.

I think I just got lucky.  I'd have been really lucky if the factory hadn't ignored my request for nonstock spring rates....

[Kelu]

If I would go with rubber mounts the local price is pretty good but in this case I'm not sure about the product code.
On my local store in BC offer the product says: ZB-01 listed for Pontiac Solstice 2006+, I presume will fit in all Kappas no matter the engine?
On CircuitMotorsport website says: Model: S-18
I emailed CircuitMotorsport asking about Free Shipping 

[wspohn]

Good luck - maybe Circuit can get them shipped direct. I dealt with Tristan, who was very helpful.

I am not sure why you would want the hard top mounts unless you were competing - they will wear out sooner and frankly won't really improve your handling experience on the road.  Save some money and get the regular struts.   Believe me, they feel firm enough with no apparent 'give' in the system!

[Kelu]

wspohn I'm building my opinion based on drivers who dealt with these, Ben's opinion was pretty positive about pillowballs, yours were completely negative about those, now I'm on tie and judging based on the prices.

[wspohn]

This reminds me of the guys that convert to rod ends in their suspension on the street, just because it is 'racy'.  They often pay no attention to maintenance (and many race cars including mine have no dust shields on the ends) so they end up wearing them out and wondering why, while getting absolutely no useful difference out of the exercise in terms of handling.

There are reasons why we use compliant parts in street suspension and why we opt for other choices in competition set ups. Unless you will be competing regularly (which if I understand correctly is not the case), you will just be adding cost to these shocks and my bet is that you wouldn't be able to tell which you had in there by driving it.

When people tell you how great certain mods are, don't forget the wishful thinking syndrome. Anyone that spends money on something they think should do something, will somehow detect that the part in question IS doing exactly what they thought it would, because otherwise they'd have wasted their money, and that's unthinkable to them.

If you added up all the claimed power increases of all the various add-ons available for these cars, and really thought that the claims were true, you'd be like the credulous fools I see on other forums - Fiero guys that say that part A is supposed to add so much power etc., etc., so they now have 300 BHP because that's what it all adds up to.

If you listen to anyone about car set up, listen to the guys that actually race or slalom or use their car in whatever way is relevant to your planned use, especially if they are the types who feel free to say that they tried something and it didn't work - clearly they don't suffer from the wishful thinking syndrome.

I do not know for a fact that the ends you are talking about WILL wear faster - that is an educated guess.  I also do not know if the difference is anything that will be important to you in the use you have for your car. I am deducing from similar situations I have been involved in that this would be the case.  I suggest that you solicit opinions from people with first hand experience with this (including Circuit, as they sell lots of this sort  of thing) and see what you get back.

If going for the pillow ball ends is going to cost you a lot more, I'd forget it. FWIW, based on feedback from others whose opinions seemed most balanced to me, including Circuit, I opted to stick with the normal ends when I ordered my BC struts.

Either way, you'll probably have the fastest Kappa in Romania....;-)

BTW, the part number on the home (Taiwan factory) page is ZB-01

The English parts seems to have been done by someone that actually does speak English (much better than many Chinese sites) so you might want to take a look  http://www.bcec.com.tw

Finally, if you are an inveterate fiddler and will want to keep playing with the shock settings, Tristan advised that you can get an add on extender for the rear shock adjusters that allow you to adjust through a small hole you cut in the floor above the rear shocks.  About $40 for the pair, as I recall.

[Kelu]

I was checking a different BC site, thanks for the link. Looks like the question about the product code has been answered.

Now I'm waiting best offer when is about the price and go for it, thanks guys.  

Either way, you'll probably have the fastest Kappa in Romania....;-)

That's for sure, is not a probability.

[Ben L]

I will try to not take personally anything in the prior post that might be read to suggest that I favor pillowballs mounts just because I think they are cool and racy, or that my happiness with my set up is a self delusion because I cannot admit I wasted money on a mod. 

Really, you don't know me.  Because if you did you would know how much money I waste on trying something, not being happy, and then replacing it with something that does the job. As I have said in other posts, that comes with the territory in performance modification, despite the best due dligence.

So when I responded to Kelu's post, I gave it to him straight up as I see it.  I think I accurately described the upsides and downs of spherical bearings, and that the choice depended on what he was after.  Also, when I didn't know something, I said so.  

But I totally disagree that that solid bearings on the front coilovers are of absolutely no benefit in driving on the street, if you expect to push the car to its potential in that application.

I would note that the standard BC package Circuit MS and the other vendors of these units offers come with pillowball fronts (but not rears). Most other makes of high end coilover packages for sports cars and sedans also offer them with solid front mounts.  I'm guessing there is a reason why.

It is true that I was actively campaigning the Sol autoxing when I got the Ultraleggeras, the Dunlops, the Pro Beam, the Backbone, etc., and I am not anymore.  We installed the BCs just as my dedicated competition car was completed, so I could have not gone through with the coilover swap.  But I did.

Some folks, myself included, make a perfectly conscious and deliberate decision to modify suspensions on sports cars that are driven primarily on the street, to be more precise and responsive, and less compliant and mooshy, not because they want everyone to think they are cool.

In addition to pillowball fronts on the BCs, I also have different spring rates biased to the front, and nearly double the stock rates.  They will rattle your teeth going over railroad tracks, but I love them.

These choices have produced more than just wishful thinking.  I got the results I expect and I am happy with them.  I want to maximize performance and handling on my suspension, even on my street car.  

My view is this:  If you are going to have a classic roadster with a double wishbone coilover suspension making nearly 300 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels, its a friggin sports car, not a platform for "ride comfort."  The car's true potential lies in the other direction. It should be stiff, crisp, and able to handle high lateral Gs with minimal deflection introduced by squishy suspension parts. I run into plenty of ocassions to use those fine qualities in my daily driving, so its a personal choice.

Bottom line:  I do not campaign the Sol anymore, I have the pillowball fronts, and I am glad I do.  The car handles precisely with no deflection in quick and hard turns, without being twitchy.  They are a good match for the polyurethane bushings that came on the lower shock mounts.  They do not make any detectable noise.  

I check them every time the car is off the suspension, and they are wearing fine after about 5,000 miles. If the Daytona is down, I have a backup car I can autocross that if not equal, is a more than credible performer.  If a friend needs a car to run, I can offer the Sol.

There is a price to pay --

First, many people (those used to Detroit's idea of what a suspension should be) would hate how firm and "harsh" my ride is, especially on rough roads and long trips.  I do not find it bad at all.  The tradeoff is well worth it to me.

Second, as I said before, you have to watch the wear on rod end and spherical bearings.  So what?  But maintenance is part of the joy of owning a sports car.  The voyage of discovery as to how things work is part of what makes ownign a car like this fun.  

Finally, see the thread we posted; you do not need the extended length rears to access the adjusters on the rear through holes in the trunk floor, and no weather gets in the holes either; look at the pictures.

[wspohn]

FWIW, I certainly wasn't aiming the 'racy' comment at you, it was more generally intended.

You are obviously among the minority of owners that really do maintain your car and given that you did solo, youru choice probably made sense for you.

I wonder how much harsher/noisier the pillows ball mounts made the front end?  I guess as you never had anything else, you won't have a basis for comparison, but maybe someone does.

Interesting to know that the holes you cut to get at the rear adjusters don't let water in.  I figured that feeding the extenders through a close fitting grommet might prevent that, but if it doesn't happen anyway, so much the better.

Having just fitted BC struts and springs and ZOK bars to my Solstice, I think you'd find me in complete agreement with most of your philosophy!

[Ben L]

I appreciate your kind remarks. 

Indeed, I do have a sound basis of comparison.  I daily drove my GXP for several thousand miles on the stock Bilsteins before switching to the BCs, as you could discern were you to read the detailed "before and after review" I posted on this forum.

The mounts, I think, did not significantly contribute to the harshness factor, certainly not as much as the greatly increased spring rates.  Most of the cockpit noise I hear is the lower edge of the airdam flap contacting the road due to the lowered ride height.  Consumable plastic item.

But lest anyone get the wrong idea, the firmess is NOT unbearable. Nor is daily driving performance compromised.  I still get no wheel hop or lateral skip even on the roughest or bumpiest surfaces.

I think the locations of the holes are protected from road debris and water by the gas tank shroud.  Again, I refer you to the pictures of our install posted on this forum.  I am still trying to find grommets, though, for a cleaner look.

[Kelu]

DDM replied on my request, they can sell me BC coilovers  

I'm gonna buy BC Coilovers (no matter the mounts) from DDM also going to buy ProBeam and Performarce Intake from DDM because they offer "special features" for european orders, their customer service and because are supporting vendors here.

Thanks for helping me to decide.  

[1KULSOL]

DDM replied on my request, they can sell me BC coilovers 

I'm gonna buy BC Coilovers (no matter the mounts) from DDM also going to buy ProBeam and Performarce Intake from DDM because they offer "special features" for european orders, their customer service and because are supporting vendors here.

Thanks for helping me to decide. 

you definitely can't go wrong with DDM .... and adding the Probeam will definitely improve the handling .... enjoy

[Dave@DDMworks]

DDM replied on my request, they can sell me BC coilovers 

I'm gonna buy BC Coilovers (no matter the mounts) from DDM also going to buy ProBeam and Performarce Intake from DDM because they offer "special features" for european orders, their customer service and because are supporting vendors here.

Thanks for helping me to decide. 

Glad we could help you out and look forward to getting everything over to you! Enjoy!