Topic: Tuning options-Pls help my Opel GT gain some xtra power

[Sol Asylum]

Kagem I agree the knock issue you describe would bother me too.

[Critterman]

I disagree, any engine that is lugged down (low rpm high throttle) will knock

[Kagem]

We are not saying about 1000 rpm and high throttle, the car there with 4th or 5th gear yes it may struggle. The issue here is at 2000+ rpm, there the knocking is something that would also bother me....

[Critterman]

2000 is still low, 2500 pushing it in 5th gear.  You can accelarate just not full throttle.

[Treeman]

I agree with Critter.  When I shift into 5th, my minimum is 2000 and then I only soft pedal it for acceleration.  With these engines, that is enough for easy freeway passing.  I don't get WOT until 3000.

[Kagem]

Gentlemen i agree with both of you, but what i am trying to explain in my last posts is that even if you get WOT under 3000 it may not be appropriate but still does not justify any knock issue....

[Kelu]

Kagem: put your stock tune and do logs, let us know what you will discover

[yannis-supras]

Even if it's 2000 rpm with full throttle in 5th gear does not make an excuse for a knock issue. The right and normal way is to have no knock at all, no matter how low your rpm are or what gear you are running with....

Kagem my friend, I'm afraid you're incorrect; the motor is not supposed to be pushed on 5th gear at such low rpm, and believe me 2-2.500rpm on 5th is quite low!

As Critterman correctly stated:

The load on the engine at 2k in 5th gear is enormous at WOT.  Cars just aren't made to do that, that is why automatics downshift and so should you.

Don't beat yourself up with a problem that shouldn't even be a concern to you. Either downshift or keep on a lower gear until you reach certain rpm! Our GTs might be based on an american platform car but they're no Viper 8.0lt torque monsters  !

[Kagem]

You're missing my point, all my last post go down the drain. I never said it's right to push the car there, of course you have 2 other gears there to use but in case you do push it once there souldn't be any knock at all. Many of our tuned friends happen to push their cars in such ways, none of them had any issue with knock ever, is this just luck? Tuned gt's for over 2 years now and never had any knocking problems, i repeat that i understand the motor struggling at 1000 rpm and full throttle, but in 2500 rpm for our cars with the turbo already boosting from 2000 rpm it seems wrong....

[MEGAS]

Kagem my friend, I'm afraid you're incorrect; the motor is not supposed to be pushed on 5th gear at such low rpm, and believe me 2-2.500rpm on 5th is quite low!

As Critterman correctly stated:

Don't beat yourself up with a problem that shouldn't even be a concern to you. Either downshift or keep on a lower gear until you reach certain rpm! Our GTs might be based on an american platform car but they're no Viper 8.0lt torque monsters  !

the motor is supposed to perform well and safe under all conditions of driving as it has left the plant,at least when it's stock!
2000rpms in 5th is what something like 100km/h in the tacho reader..?
yes...so who says that while cruising in 5th and 100km/h you cannot accelerate wot to overtake someone ????
Even if some knocking appears then the knock sensor will have to do it's job...that is to sense knock...send signal to ECU ...ECU then dials out some degrees of ignition.
This process cannot be felt by a driver in most of the cases.

Now,if a tuned kappa has knocking issues under the same conditions then something is wrong with the tune or maybe some other tech problem ...in which case should/must be solved.

The phrase "ok do not accelerate from so down low or you have 4th gear .." well this is all  "Greek" to me...!

just my 1000 euros

[Kelu]

All Elada is here, welcome guys. any of you guys have the curiosity to log the stock tunes in same conditions?

[Arabas]

Hey Kelu, all Ellada (Greece) is here coz we re trying to make you feel lonely in Romania

no, i haven't logged the stock tune. i am waiting for an answer from Vince as soon as he looks into my issue. if then he decides he needs datalog from my stock tune, i will do so and send hime the file to have a look into my engine.
he is the maestro in this concert, so i am waiting for his instructions.

for the moment i get a P0106 every now and then, i avoid WOT at low rpm with 5th gear and i just cleared my MAP sensor according to your DIY. now, i wait...

[Kelu]

That is MAF sensor 
I have one qeustion, when you do logs can you see the values or only Vince can read them?

[Arabas]

MAP, MAF, MAX, MAT, MAR, it's all the same to me, as long as i have cleaned the right one 
Only Vince can read them. of course i don't know if there is a way that i can read them too..

[Kelu]

none of you have HPTuner?

[Arabas]

no one that i know of....
so, when are you coming to Greece? (get your HPTuners with you)

[Kelu]

I don't need travel to Greece to use my HPT 

[Arabas]

seriously now Kelu, people tend to support the choice they once made (when buying something) and therefore most people never mention the problems or small disappointments they encounter after making their choice.
we, the 12-13 (don't remember the exact number) of Greeks who bought Trifecta, discuss openly all the issues we encounter, coz this is the only way to get the best out of our car and exchange info.
what we are lacking, is the feedback from other tunes. what i mean in simple english: anyone with Westers (who is a great tuner), if accelerates at WOT with 5th gear from 2000 rpm, does his car have some small knock issues??
do you get CEL thrown once in a while (like P0106 or P0300-301-302-303-304) ?

i.e. Critterman has spoken sincerely about his tune and i appreciate this

[Kelu]

If I go WOT in 4th (might be in 3rd too, I need to check that) from 1500rpm, I see knock in low rpm, Lyndon saw that too and commented "data is a little 'lean' on short term fueling, but overall I don't think I'd make any changes.".
That happens because running a little bit lean in that point around 1 lambda IIRC, there is a split until "WOT mode" starts to kick in and AFR goes richer and above that no more knock. If I go 1-2-3-4th gears with WOT no knock. You didn't hear me saying that until now because Saturday was the first time when I saw that knock (I did logs in January and about a month ago), lost all logs because hdd crashed, could be on the gas since my tune wasn't changed since Augustin 2009 and didn't saw knocks previously.

Please don't ask me to do WOTs in 5th because is nearly impossible for me.

Will be great to make a post where everybody can share logs, but you guys don't have those things.  

No CELs except if I push it when is cold in the winter i was seeing a flashing cel and managed to make it to stay (continuing to push it), I generally don't move the car until is not dropping the rpm at 850rpm. I already posted about this, nothing else.

Regarding with the other things, I agree with you, we are here to communicate and share experience. Petty I don't have anyone locally to share experience and info, all I do is here.

[Arabas]

Now, you're talking Kelu! thx a lot for sharing the info!!
at 1-2-3-4 gears WOT, i don't have knock either, but as said, i do get a P0106 once in a while.
i suppose u will get knock issues at 5th gear and 2000rpm, since u have them at 4th and 1500rpm, but this is just an ASSUMPTION i make.

as far as the first part of your post (technical one), i will kindly ask Megas and Yannis-Supra to explain that in plain Greek over to the greek forum, coz i suck on technical terms...

Once again, thx Kelu!
If anyone else would like to share, it would be great!!

[Kelu]

I hate hpt is pegged to 255kPa when is about pressure (translated in 22.5psi of boost), even I see 25psi on my DIC, that's why I installed the external boost gauge.
On Saturday logs I noticed the pressure is not kept up until 5000-5500rpm, mine starts to drop far earlier (based on HPT logs) around 3700-4000rpm. It could be because of full moon  , I need to redo the logs to be sure, I will try with a different gas too to be sure about knock also. Ooooppss, started to be offtopic  

[Arabas]

Va rog, unul de

[Kelu]

Va rog, unul de

Hahahhah, translator FAILED, first part is ok means "Please", second part means "one of" what are you trying to say my friend?

[Arabas]

Scuzat’i-mã
i was trying to say, pls, keep talking (posting)

[MEGAS]

briefly ,waht Kelu described is the open/closed loop of the ECU .
Closed loop is the state when the ECU relies on the O2 sensor to correct fuel trim and adjust the injector pulsewidth...this also happens when the car is cold and when cruising with less than 1/3 throttle.

Open loop is the state when at wot the ECU relies on map/maf tables or generally maps that exist in the ECU and therefore according to these tables/maps a/f is being regulated ..