Topic: Tuning options-Pls help my Opel GT gain some xtra power

[kennysabarese]

I had knock on stock GMPP if I lugged the engine in 4th or 5th

I want a little knock light on my dash Anyone know of one?

[Kelu]

I had knock on stock GMPP if I lugged the engine in 4th or 5th

This I was trying to say to Kagem, as far as I know you are not the only one, thank you for reporting in 

Dashdaq can show knock 

[kennysabarese]

My guess is every engine in the world will do this. That's why I've always been told not to lug an engine.

[Kelu]

You guys forget about clutch, we have a good one. In this situations for other cars (ie. Cobalt SS/TC) the clutch starts to slip.

[Arabas]

Thx a lot kennysabarese for your feedback!
those of us who have a custom tune, i believe we can push the tuner to have a closer look to our tuned engine and see how all knocks can resolve.
kennysabarese on the other hand, with the GMPP tune has the advantage of keeping the factory warranty, if something goes wrong (knock on wood - can t find an emoticon for this)

[Kelu]

He is "doomed" already, check his sig "Wester's Race Tune for GMPP 3bar sensors"

[kennysabarese]

Let's get this thread back on track. This knock BS is a waste of time and energy.

[Arabas]

maybe you are right kennysabarese, but i am still waiting for Vince to respond after the datalog i sent him. i repeat, with the less aggresive tune i have, i have no knock issues. what i want, is to have the aggressive tune with no knock and no P0106. if Vince tells me that the knock on the aggressive tune is BS, i will compromise and use it being safe (means no low rpm on 4th and 5th gear).
but until Vince takes a look into the datalog, i want to believe he can resolve that.

[Critterman]

Arabas - we will just have to agree to disagree about this issue.  I understand what you are saying and in a perfect world we would not only have peace and harmony with our spark and gas ignition in our engines, but world wide peace with mankind. 

[yannis-supras]

You're missing my point, all my last post go down the drain. I never said it's right to push the car there, of course you have 2 other gears there to use but in case you do push it once there souldn't be any knock at all. Many of our tuned friends happen to push their cars in such ways, none of them had any issue with knock ever, is this just luck? Tuned gt's for over 2 years now and never had any knocking problems, i repeat that i understand the motor struggling at 1000 rpm and full throttle, but in 2500 rpm for our cars with the turbo already boosting from 2000 rpm it seems wrong....

Kagem maybe it's required to make some small definition here; I was referring to the situation where having 5th gear on and running 2000rpm you decide to step the throttle all the way down for instant acceleration (as you would with 3rd on for instance), not just trying to achieve linear acceleration with 5th gear at those rpm. That's a totally different story and if I was not mistaken I thought that was the case.

the motor is supposed to perform well and safe under all conditions of driving as it has left the plant,at least when it's stock!
2000rpms in 5th is what something like 100km/h in the tacho reader..?...
yes...so who says that while cruising in 5th and 100km/h you cannot accelerate wot to overtake someone ????

Yes and no sir. The above statement is partially correct (always based on personal experience). Of course a fresh motor "should" perform flawlessly in stock form at least but even stock motors don't really like having the throttle stepped all the way down (WOT) on 5th with such low rpm or put it differently when out of their torque band.

As I just said to Kagem, linear acceleration is a totally different story but putting the throttle to the floor on 2000rpm with 5th gear will more than likely cause knocking, not just on this motor but on any motor from 1.0lt up to 3.0lt (that's my range from personal experience hence I don't extend the upper limits of motor size   ).

I believe any stock motor would behave similarly unless we're talking about big, big capacity motors with high torque available at such low rpms, cause that's what it's all about; the available torque at the certain rpm range.

Many years ago I have experienced the same issue with a n/a 6cyl 2.8lt supra. Even with that size of motor in n/a form with more evenly spread torque range knock would appear.

The phrase "ok do not accelerate from so down low or you have 4th gear .." well this is all  "Greek" to me...!

just my 1000 euros

We Greeks are taking over this forum, haven't you noticed  

In seriousness though, I believe it's all about driving habits and being aware of what to expect from your car. I have not experienced that kind of knocking for over 15 years now cause subconsciously I know there's nothing to be gained by stepping down the throttle on 5th gear with such low rpms so I never get that kind of knocking. Yes I can have linear acceleration and I will step partially on the throttle to move on but I'm not gonna expect to get an instant reaction and "speed of light" kinda acceleration.

I'm in no way, shape or form trying to demonstrate my kind of driving and my personal opinion as the ideal, most correct approach on the matter, just saying that the knocking experienced under these specific circumstances shouldn't be noticed at the first place as you'd normally would not drive the car in such manner.

Stepping in a "try to find every single hick up my car has regardless if I'd even notice when driving as I usually do" mode is a totally different ball game though...It is very easy to find flaws in every single motor on the planet if that's what you're looking for!

DAMN, and I'm not even a fan of this motor, Arabas can verify this...!!!!

[yannis-supras]

My guess is every engine in the world will do this. That's why I've always been told not to lug an engine.

You should never lug a motor, either stock or even worse a tuned one!

[Kelu]

Zupra racer always rulz  

Yannis   and    look at my experiences, I don't care of the knock at 2000rpm at WOT even in 3rd because I will never be there, even stock there is plenty of knock in this situation.

[Kagem]

Knock Knock, who's there? Open the door and let me in! One question gentlemen, why does my car not have any knock issues from even 1000rpm at wot? From when it was stock until today that is tuned? And i do put the throttle to the floor on 2000rpm every now and then, answer here needed....

[Arabas]

Let's see what Vince practically answered. i have an updated tune, and i am expecting the same power levels with no knock at all. i trust the guy, i know he can make this happen !

and then, an ambitious project, if Vince is not restricted by the ecu or smth else on the car:
run 3 tunes on the car (aggressive, mild and stock)  and select one of them on the fly by the cruise button and one more button...
if he is able to do that, then it will be a blast!

[Kelu]

Kagem: your car is unique   never heard of an white Opel GT   that explains?  
Seriously, any car is different from other.

Arabas: Cool, Vince is a great tuner.
Why you need for 3 tunes??? Just use your foot to go stock and mild tune  

[MEGAS]

In arab's case we have 2 sides...one side with less pressure and no knock and other side with more boost and knock in the same range of 2000rpms in 5th.

Clearly there is something wrong with the "agressive" tune,it's as simple as that !!!
It has nothing to do with lugging the engine or driving habbits!

So the tuner must address the issue!

again just my 2000 euros

[perris]

Knock Knock, who's there? Open the door and let me in! One question gentlemen, why does my car not have any knock issues from even 1000rpm at wot? From when it was stock until today that is tuned? And i do put the throttle to the floor on 2000rpm every now and then, answer here needed....

what are you using to see knock?

[Kagem]

My ears dear perris....

[yannis-supras]

Knock Knock, who's there? Open the door and let me in!

   Tony, buddy you rule!!!!!

Your car is unique in so many ways!

[Kagem]

Thanks John, your's seems to be heading at a higher state than mine....

[Arabas]

just an update: two weeks ago i received an updated tune from Vince. i flashed the ecm and at first i was sceptical.
i only saw 1.55-1.6 bar and sometimes 1.65 boost. i left it as it is, drove around 250 miles with it and the power seemed very good and applied evenly on wide rpm range.
but i wasn't quite sure that the power was at the level of my previous tune (the one with +1.75bar and some knock issues at 5th gear and very low rpm). i pushed it hard to check for knocks, nothing there (so far) and no CEL.

so two nights ago, i raced a trifecta tuned GT (cai, tune and solo cat) and we were exactly the same. it was only in high 4th gear that i started gaining veeery little by little.

then i raced Kagem (aggressive Trifecta tune), no other mods. 2nd gear rolling and he gained a car distance. by 4th gear the distance started diminishing but i wasn't able to come side by side, as we had to slum on the brakes. i m not sure what would have happened shifting to 5th gear.
then with Kagem, we raced rolling 3rd. Kagem made half a car distance and at high rpm's 4th gera i was only half a hood behind gaining distance little by little.

finally i raced at the same time a VX performance and an EDS 325hp. rolling 2nd we were exactly the same, only on 4th i managed to make less than half a hood difference. GT with VX started earlier, so no comparison here.
then we tried rolling 3rd and on fourth gear i had made something less than a car distance. VX and EDS were almost the same, but i can't be 100% sure about it, only repeating what these 2 friends told me.

so, i have almost the same power (maybe a little less) that Kagem has, but applied in a different, no big-bang, just smoother and at higher speed.

pretty satisfied so far!
hope everything continues this way!

[Gentleman Jack]

how do you have a rolling 3rd gear race?  3rd gear?  You've got to be approaching 100 mph when you start the race?  You must have really big roads.  Does Greece have stop lights?  Video please....

Also, why not have a race from 0-200 KPH?  Is there a reason you do rolling starts?  Are you focusing on mid range rpm?

GJ

[Arabas]

how do you have a rolling 3rd gear race?  3rd gear?  You've got to be approaching 100 mph when you start the race?  You must have really big roads.  Does Greece have stop lights?  Video please....

Also, why not have a race from 0-200 KPH?  Is there a reason you do rolling starts?  Are you focusing on mid range rpm?

GJ

we race rolling 3rd or 2nd gear with low rpms (around 2000 rpms). so we have something like 40MPH IIRC.
it s not a race actually, just some GT geeks (we became friends through our GTs) that test their cars and tunes.
we have found some roads long enough to do this, and late at night traffic is minimum. stop lights? hahaha, yes we have those, you confuse Greece with Egypt (they don t use traffic lights there).
we don't do a 0-200 coz a lot depends on the driver at the starting line, and we don't want to test that, just compare our tunes, and help each other improve our tunes

[Kelu]

Yeah, rolling races are to test the car, you subtract driver from the equation.