Topic: Front brakes swap

[Kuprito]

For all of you who need more braking power, I am writing a post about how to fit front brakes on rear.

It's very easy and it's very cheap for the performance you get (about 250$).

I am the first to make that if I am not wrong:









Sorry for the poor quality, I am waiting for Hi-res and step by step (I will post a DIY) pics...

[perris]

looks great but I might check stopping distances if I were you, sometimes bigger brakes translate into longer stopping distances due to miscalibration of abs

[Kuprito]

All I can say is:

I bought a set of Rotora 4 pot 330x30 brakes
I bought a set of Ferodo DS2500 pads
I bought a set of rotora slotted (278x12) discs on rear
I reused the front stock brakes on the back

Do you know what made the noticeable difference? Front brakes on rear (with the stock ultraweared pads and burnt discs).

[Critterman]

What did you do about the parking/emergency brake?

[Kuprito]

What did you do about the parking/emergency brake?

Nothing. I am thinking of two ways to have a parking brake... It has to be cheap and easy to fit:

Line lock
Dual caliper configuration

[Kelu]

Kuprito: I'm intrested in a solution for line lock for front brakes especially if it is european to a proper price, keep us posted and thanks for sharing.

You know we can use big brakes from Opel Vectra OPC, right? (We have a greek member around here which did that)

[Kuprito]

I know that Kelu! Thanks, I think they are 345x30 like the Audi S3/Golf R32/Leon Cupra

I think the Brembos (355mm) from the new Insignia OPC fit in the front too, I don't know what happens on rear.

I recommend this mod I did, for all the people with big brake front kits that think they are not enough for their needs. You only need 2 front knuckles to do that.

[LatinVenom]

I think we need to know the following:
Take the car to 60 MPH/KM and then apply the brakes and see how long it takes to stop.

[Kuprito]

I am 250 miles away from the car right now... I will test that when I come back.

A more accurate test would be from 120-140mph to 0. I'll do both.

[Kelu]

Will be hard to evaluate using this method. Will be compared with stock values which we all know are "perfect" measurements in "perfect" conditions.

A before and after test would be more comprehensive result.

[wspohn]

I see  so many people that are ready to shell out big bucks to completely replace stock brakes on cars (not just Solstice/Sky) when in fact all they may need is a different pad compound....

And of course the question remains - if you truly ARE exceeding the limits of stock brakes with optimal compound, WHY are you doing this on public streets....

I know that fancy drilled and slotted brakes add bling, but I doubt 1 car in 100 actually NEEDS (in terms of performance) anything more than the stock brakes, optimized.

[Kuprito]

Who said street? Is not that the racing subforum?














You are right, 99,9% has enough with the stock brakes, but not me.

[Arabas]

I see  so many people that are ready to shell out big bucks to completely replace stock brakes on cars (not just Solstice/Sky) when in fact all they may need is a different pad compound....

And of course the question remains - if you truly ARE exceeding the limits of stock brakes with optimal compound, WHY are you doing this on public streets....

I know that fancy drilled and slotted brakes add bling, but I doubt 1 car in 100 actually NEEDS (in terms of performance) anything more than the stock brakes, optimized.

wspohn, i kinda agree on the compound part, but some solutions are better than others.
and i also agree with you,  street racing can be dangerous (mostly depends on the mentality and the brains of the driver)...but racing in circuit can also be dangerous (and i do not only mean for the drivers...)
but pls accept my friendly answer and comment:
people change brakes for the same reason they tune their cars...to go faster. and i am sure that all people with a tune OR just a car with lots of power like the kappas, have exceeded the speed limits at least 100 times in their life. otherwise we could all buy a 1.3L engine Toyota Auris. a true car, but not for driving pleasure.

if you have never street raced in your life, nor exceeded the speed limits, nor pushed the limits of your car a bit further on public road, nor have ever modified a car, nor ever bought a powerfull car because it has poweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer u can use, i apologise and i will shut my big mouth for 2 weeks...

[wspohn]

Most of my racing is done on the track, but I suspect anyone that says he's never exceeded the speed limit on the roads is a liar!

No, the issue is more whether or not bigger brakes are needed or whether they are just decroation for bragging purposes.  We see this all the time on the MG side where people buy totally unecessary big brakes, claiming that they peform better or are safer.  They conveniently ignore the fact that the same cars that race in SCCA can't run the big brakes and yet somehow have completely adequate brake performance based on stock components with suitable pad materials, even under brake use that far exceeds ANY street or slalom use.

I've run an MG race car for more than 35 years and have never been able to fade my brakes even stopping from 130 MPH once and 100+ a couple of times per lap.  I used Ferodo DS11 material for many years (developed back in the 60s for Formula 1 use) and after asbestos pads were phased out, switched to a Porterfield compund that is easily as good.  You can get the brakes hot enough to show a glow in th dark, and the pads don't fade.

My bet is that most of the people 'upgrading' the Solstice brakes haven't fully explored the limits of the stock system, they just bolt on stuff because it is easy to do and looks nice.  Now I haven't raced a Solstice, so if I am wrong and you tell me you tried the best compunds available and still faded the brakes, fine, I'll believe you, but I had to ask the question.

[Arabas]

no wspohn i haven t exceed the limits of the stock brakes, upgraded though to Vectra OPC brakes and would have loved to upgrade with 4 piston Galfer calipers. (let me say that u race more yrs than i have actually been living)
actually i have only somewhat reached close to the limits of the car in terms of grip and from turn to turn acceleration and stopping power (in public mountain road  ) and to be honest i would really like to have a kappa that i won t have to pay if i damage, go to the track and explore each and every limit of the car...

BUT (there s always a but my friend) when racing, i strongly suppose that at a racing car, you change pads in almost every race and u change the rotors maybe the fluids and even the tires. which is easily explained by the fact that in the track u need maximum performance from stock parts, without having to care about how long the consumable parts will last..this is the nature of racing. furthermore, race drivers know how to get the most out of stock parts, while normal drivers like myself need a better braking system to perform under my inexperienced foot the same way the stock brake performs under the foot of an experienced race driver.
last thing, long term performance under pressure with is always a questions for normal drivers who need to change brake parts every 12-15K miles, while race drivers just have to make it through the race. i bet a worn set of big diameter rotors and 4 piston calipers is worse than a brand new set of OEM brake kit...


i tottaly agree with you that a lot of people upgrade their brakes just for the looks of it, the way a lot of people tune their cars just to race a straight line or just brag about their HP...

[wspohn]

Actually, you only need to change pads once or twice a season (you don't let them get down past about half original thickness).  Yoy also bleed out the fluid in the calipers (but not a whole system replacement) every race, and you need a maintenance schedule for such things as brake lines (we run Teflon lined Aeroquip hydraulic lines).

Rotor wear isn't as bad as you might think - the rotors often last several seasons.

Now I used to vintage race with 1950s Corvettes who had to use ceramic button brake shoes on their drums to manage to brake, and they replaced drums ever weekend....

[Arabas]

Respect! i stop disagree right now.
i changed the front brake system because it felt kind of inaffective after 3-4 strong brakings (publc road again).
then i saw that brake dimension and materials were bigger/better in other cars with similar  HP-torque and same weight. also i was preparing the car to handle increased power of a tune.
i had thought to do what Kuprito do (swap the front to the rear) but due to e-brake and all the fuss about it, i didn t do it and i won t do it.

anyway, this post  is a very good DIY for kappa owners..

[Kuprito]

Any cheap ideas for the e-brake?

PS: Arabas, have you met Nasos or Spiros?

[wspohn]

Any cheap ideas for the e-brake?

Just drill a hole in the top of the transmission tunnel and then through the driveshaft.  Parking brake = drop a long carriage bolt all the way through.   

I actually saw a guy in university do that with his Triumph.  Worked alright until he'd had enough beer one night to forget about the 'parking brake' and he took off without remembering to remove the bolt.....

The Fiero guys are always doing a Grand Am rotor swap on the brakes which leaves them without a workable emergency brake.  A very bad idea if you are ever in an accident that could even possibly have involved brakes as an element.  Don't give the lawyers any excuse to add another argument against you!

[Arabas]

Any cheap ideas for the e-brake?

PS: Arabas, have you met Nasos or Spiros?

no ideas from my side.
sorry.
Nasos yes, i imagine for whom we are talking about. Spiros?? i only know one Spiro with GT, aka Beballer. is he the one u r talking about?

[Critterman]

I have the 4 piston fronts from DDM with HP pads and HP+ on the back with stock caliper.  I also switched to slotted and drilled rotors about six months after I changed the brake pads.  Brakes were very loud under soft braking.  Haven't had a squeek since the change.

Kennysabarese wore through a set of stock pads in one track day, I don't know how many miles he had on them when he started, but he was complaining of massive fade.

[wspohn]

Kennysabarese wore through a set of stock pads in one track day, I don't know how many miles he had on them when he started, but he was complaining of massive fade.

That's not at all surprising. Stock pads aren't meant for that sort of use.

Anyone getting into serious use should look at Porterfields - they offer several different compounds to suit several levels of competition and fade resistance.

[Uranium-238]

EBC yellowstuff is what I'm planning on running next season. Rotors are expendable.

[perris]

That's not at all surprising. Stock pads aren't meant for that sort of use.

Anyone getting into serious use should look at Porterfields - they offer several different compounds to suit several levels of competition and fade resistance.

been told the stock opel brakes are far better then those stateside, hardly any fade and good stick, just a little more squeelin

[Arabas]

been told the stock opel brakes are far better then those stateside, hardly any fade and good stick, just a little more squeelin

i am pretty sure, brakes for Redline, GXP and GT are the same