Topic: Solstice Drift Build

[frictionfighter]

The fitment is fantastic.  The fact that the hardtop runs over the taillights actually caught us off guard.  After talking to Norm and looking at pics of the coupe, it makes perfect sense and looks great IMO.  I'm not a big fan of the stock taillights with the stock top on the solstice.  However, the hardtop makes them look.....ominous.  Perfect.

[frictionfighter]

Furthermore, as things come to completion this spring, I promise high quality photographs and details for any that need them.

[Gentleman Jack]

Sweet! Looking forward to it!

[Critterman]

Come on Friction, you know once the sun is out and the weather warm we are going to swarm your shop like Locust to get a first hand look.

[frictionfighter]

Come on Friction, you know once the sun is out and the weather warm we are going to swarm your shop like Locust to get a first hand look.

Not my shop, but you are welcome!

Furthermore, we are planning on making multiple manifolds and downpipes for the EFR series turbos!

[Kelu]

Now you are telling that? 

[frictionfighter]

Oh, come on now....I did tell you Augustin

[Kelu]

Yeah but no update in weeks, I couldn't wait to receive the turbo and not to have a manifold for it 

P.S. Stop calling me Augustin, only the girls are calling me that way 

[frictionfighter]

Believe me, I feel your pain.  I waited for over a month to get my turbo and now I'm waiting a lot longer than that to build a manifold.  It will all be shared with this community!  It takes time to blaze new trails though...

I tend to not post when I don't have anything important to say 

[frictionfighter]

BTW, can I call you Augie? 

[Kelu]

How about to call me Kelu? 

[SKY888]

augie....that's awesome!

[GXPinKC]

Believe me, I feel your pain.  I waited for over a month to get my turbo and now I'm waiting a lot longer than that to build a manifold.  It will all be shared with this community!  It takes time to blaze new trails though...

I tend to not post when I don't have anything important to say  

frictionfighter, it has been a blast following your build and thread.  Thanks for all the time and attention to detail and as a compliment one of the best build threads ever posted on the forum.  Extreme KUDOS, indeed!!! Look forward to your completion of the build.

[frictionfighter]

frictionfighter, it has been a blast following your build and thread.  Thanks for all the time and attention to detail and as a compliment one of the best build threads ever posted on the forum.  Extreme KUDOS, indeed!!! Look forward to your completion of the build.

Oh you are quite generous.  I don't feel like I've done a very good job lol...
I promise it will get better!

[frictionfighter]

Sky you should look at an EFR 8374 or 9180 instead of that GT4094R.  There was a test just done between a 8374 and a GT35R.  The 8374 is MUCH larger than the GT35R but it spooled faster!!

[Kelu]

Link?

[frictionfighter]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150121362917527&set=a.447340302526.239779.157954962526&theater

[Arabas]

BTW, can I call you Augie?  

or Ogre

 

i know Kelu, i deserve a good  

keep us updated of your project Friction. it seems you have a hell of a project there!!

[SKY888]

Sky you should look at an EFR 8374 or 9180 instead of that GT4094R.  There was a test just done between a 8374 and a GT35R.  The 8374 is MUCH larger than the GT35R but it spooled faster!!

yeah, I thought about using 2 EFR turbos but it stopped right away.

First, the EFR units are larger than GT turbos...which will cause more problems with fitting them inside the engine bay.  

Second, all the components offered by EFR, = bov, wg, and etc,  I already have.       Plus I really need a 60mm wg for my set-up.  The internal wg of the small efr turbo will not be enough.

Third, the quick transient response of the EFR turbos compared to gt turbos will be nullified by the compound set-up.    The gt2871 spool will be enough for me which really matters.     So even if the Big turbo of EFR spools faster than GT40, it will not really matter at all on a compound turbo set-up.

Fourth, the EFR turbos doesn offer v-band connection to the manifold, which is very important in my project.   The tial housing that I get offers full v-band application.

Lastly, They're a bit expensive for my application.  Will really be about $2k more compared to my gt turbos.    

Don't get me wrong, I TRULY believe the EFR turbos are the future of turbos.   They trump gtr or gtrx turbos!    But for my compound project, my gtr turbos will be perfect for me

[kennysabarese]

yeah, I thought about using 2 EFR turbos but it stopped right away.

First, the EFR units are larger than GT turbos...which will cause more problems with fitting them inside the engine bay.   

Second, all the components offered by EFR, = bov, wg, and etc,  I already have.       Plus I really need a 60mm wg for my set-up.  The internal wg of the small efr turbo will not be enough.

Third, the quick transient response of the EFR turbos compared to gt turbos will be nullified by the compound set-up.    The gt2871 spool will be enough for me which really matters.     So even if the Big turbo of EFR spools faster than GT40, it will not really matter at all on a compound turbo set-up.

Fourth, the EFR turbos doesn offer v-band connection to the manifold, which is very important in my project.   The tial housing that I get offers full v-band application.

Lastly, They're a bit expensive for my application.  Will really be about $2k more compared to my gt turbos.   

Don't get me wrong, I TRULY believe the EFR turbos are the future of turbos.   They trump gtr or gtrx turbos!    But for my compound project, my gtr turbos will be perfect for me

[frictionfighter]

Thanks for you comments.  As my best friend designs Garrett turbos at Honeywell for the aftermarket, I have a few thoughts.  He was actually the one whole suggested EFR when we were at SEMA.  Simply stated, Garrett is not sinking money into the aftermarket.  With 8 million turbos sold annually outside of the aftermarket world, they don't need to.  They were, however, disappointed at how inexpensive the EFR series is...
Comments inline:

yeah, I thought about using 2 EFR turbos but it stopped right away.

 I don't really like when people say things like "stopped right away."  You are implying negativity towards Borg Warner and it sounds too much like the IPhone vs Android argument.  

First, the EFR units are larger than GT turbos...which will cause more problems with fitting them inside the engine bay.

 
They are longer due to the EFR vband connections.  Furthermore, of course they are larger, they are all INTERNALLY GATED.    Therefore, you're overall package would be much smaller due to no external gate on the manifold.  

Second, all the components offered by EFR, = bov, wg, and etc,  I already have.

     
That's valid with the exception of boost control and wheel speed sensing.

Plus I really need a 60mm wg for my set-up.  The internal wg of the small efr turbo will not be enough.

That's simply not true.  The new porting technology in the turbine housing has proven effective at all boost levels.  The k20 test is proof of this as the k20 is known to have major creep issues.

Third, the quick transient response of the EFR turbos compared to gt turbos will be nullified by the compound set-up.    The gt2871 spool will be enough for me which really matters.     So even if the Big turbo of EFR spools faster than GT40, it will not really matter at all on a compound turbo set-up.

There is a reason people don't do compound turbo setups.  But I'm seriously all for blazing new trails!  

Fourth, the EFR turbos doesn offer v-band connection to the manifold, which is very important in my project.   The tial housing that I get offers full v-band application.

When you say Tial housing, you mean the external wg?  Not needed on the EFR turbo.

Lastly, They're a bit expensive for my application.  Will really be about $2k more compared to my gt turbos.

When you have already purchased the other components, this is true.  However, don't be fooled.  The EFR series is quite inexpensive due to the packaging.  Garrett expected it to be at least $2.5k+    

Don't get me wrong, I TRULY believe the EFR turbos are the future of turbos.   They trump gtr or gtrx turbos!    But for my compound project, my gtr turbos will be perfect for me

I agree (obviously) haha.  It will be interesting to see how the GTX turbos turn out.

I would say the internal gating/porting of the EFR series turbo combined with the fact that the turbine wheel weighs 1/2 as much as the standard wheel of old and not to mention the packaging, will make it a force to be reckoned with in the turbocharging world.  I'm really happy to see companies like Borg Warner invest in the aftermarket in this way and hope that Garrett decides to bring something to the table.  Lesser companies like Turbonetics are already making progress...

Thanks guys!

[SKY888]

yeah, I diddn't mean to say any negative thing about EFR turbos! 
The fact of a matter is, I always recommend EFR turbos to other forum members asking me for help.    For a single turbo set-up, I highly recommend EFR turbo due to its features.     
Like what I said on my closing statement, they are the future of turbos hands down.   I really don't care about the GTX-R turbos.   If I'll build a single kit turbo, EFR is the way to go.

About v-bands, EFR is not full v-band application though.   They don't mate to a manifold using v-band.      Tial housing that I mentioned is a the turbine housing.   I don't use garrett turbine housing, I use the smaller and lighter Tial turbine housing.....which is a full-v-band.   It mates to a manifold using v-band.

check this out:   http://www.tialsport.com/prod%20ss%20turbo.html#sgt2528

I already have a boost controller, 2 wgs, BOV.     I need my turbos to be really small to fit into my project.     BTF turbos are fabricated in a way that WGs are not on the manifold but is attached to the turbine housing instead

The internal wg of a small EFR turbo will not be enough on my application.  That is TRUE.     If you research more about compound turbo set-up, sometime even a 60mm wg is not enough, which is a VERY big wg.   Yes, the internal WG of EFR turbo can accomodate lots of high boost pressure......but they're talking about a single turbo kit....not a compound turbo set-up.      The back pressure produced in a compound turbo set-up is way different compared to a single turbo.    Even two 44mm wg is sometimes not enough.

GTX-R turbos in my opinion is very expensive....and no technology except having billet compressor wheels.     EFR turbos on the other hand, is expensive if you look at it, but in the long run, its not...since it already have all the features such as wg, bov, speed sensor, gamma ti wheels, etc.      I said, it will be expensive on my project, since I already have the parts I need (WG, EBC, BOV, etc).
But for a guy who wanted to build a kit, EFR is not expensive since its an all in one package!

[Kelu]

Simply stated, Garrett is not sinking money into the aftermarket.  

Garret????

[SKY888]

about the small EFR Wg   versus 60mm WG....im not worried about boost creep on high pressure.    I am worried about releasing the massive gas flow that needs to go to the big turbo on a compound turbo.

We want the biggest WG possible to push all the excess gasses towards the big turbo without any restrictions.

The internal wg of a small EFR turbo will not be able to do what I want to accomplish on my project.

Actually if I had more space in the hood, I'll probably have a pair of 60mm wg to divert all the gases towards the big turbo, once the small turbo reach the desired boost for my set-up.

[frictionfighter]

That makes sense Sky. I'll be interested to see how it turns out.  What kind of power and by when are you trying to make?