Topic: Fuel additives

[Arabas]

my father was a captain of tankers (retired now), travelling around the world and carrying gas, oil, lpg etc.
so i know a lot of stories of how the fuel we get in the gas station may not be 100% pure.

furthermore, there are still gas stations that mess with their gas in order to deceive people and make extra money.
so, i was thinking, just to be sure every time, that i have a fuel additive to add in my tank every time i fill it so as to be sure my fuel is of good quality.

do you have any suggestions (brand etc)?
are they any good, or are these BS for ignorant people like me?

[Carbon Sky]

my father was a captain of tankers (retired now), travelling around the world and carrying gas, oil, lpg etc.
so i know a lot of stories of how the fuel we get in the gas station may not be 100% pure.

furthermore, there are still gas stations that mess with their gas in order to deceive people and make extra money.
so, i was thinking, just to be sure every time, that i have a fuel additive to add in my tank every time i fill it so as to be sure my fuel is of good quality.

do you have any suggestions (brand etc)?
are they any good, or are these BS for ignorant people like me?

I'm sorry but I don't see how an additive is going to help with contaminated fuel unless you now the specific contaminant you are trying to counteract, and even then, that's assuming there is an additive that can be added to counteract the contaminant.

Your best bet is to find a reliable gas station that's convenient for you, or that you pass regularly (at least once a week).  Find one a newer station that does not use the older iron/steel tanks.  They tend to rust, and create a fine powdery sediment that's mostly rust particles, which are quite abrasive.  Also, when a new fuel delivery comes along, and the tanks are filled, it stirs up the sediment.  So visiting these older stations after a fill up is a bad idea.  The newer tanks are fiberglass glass based.  They don't have this fine sediment, and if anything does come loose, like a strip of fiber, it is easily filtered, unlike the fine particles which are not.

Then after that, it's up to you to look into whom actually supplies each brand of gas in your area.  There are only so many refineries.  For example in Toronto, there is a very large Shell refinery/distribution point, and they supply many other non-Shell gas stations.  After that, each brand will specify which particular additives they want added, and to be totally honest, they are all relatively similar.

A bigger issue, especially if you live in regions with cold is that the amount of ethanol added varies with the season.  I run a tune for winter gas, and another for summer gas because the formulations are quite different.

If you are a stickler for adding additives to your gas.  AMSOIL PI is a very good fuel system maintenance additive.  They recommend on the first usage, to add a certain amount on high concentration, then after that, the upkeep is just a tiny amount per tank.  I do this roughly once a year, and not the preventative/maintenance way mostly because I don't know how it will affect the tunes I run on it, based on the fact that they are likely volatile solvents with varying flash points and oxidizers, etc, I don't think it will be a good idea.

[Brad Kenny]

I am VERY interested in seeing where this thread goes. I have always heard the additives were BS but someone may definitely know something we all can learn.

[1LILNDN]

My big Fear was that If there was No 93 octane did they just put what was  on hand in the Tanks and still sold it as 93 Oct. Then later you get a Ping and think it is your motor needs a Tune-up.We as the Public Never know what in under ground in the tanks ????? . another thing these little  Mom and Pop stations that never had a Known brand Title Never know for sure what type of fuel they use. kind of Makes you wonder.When I had my 1947 Pontiac I used Outlaw Brand Additive or put 5 Gal. of Cam 2 race fuel in the tank Every Fill-up.

[Graywolf]

Fuel injector cleaner is a worth while additive that works and should be used every 3,000 plus miles. Additives that remove moisture from gas are also useful especially in cold climates. Be carefull about octane boosters and make sure it is for unleaded gas. Torqueco is excellent booster but costed $22.00 a can to treat 10 gallons.

[Brad Kenny]

See now I always thought fuel injector cleaner was bad for modern cars with the high pressure fuel delivery systems and could actually cause damage to the fuel system.

Good thread. Any other inputs from our technical end of the house. Will the ECOTEC engine have any problems with octane boosters or injector cleaners?

[1LILNDN]

 When they Put the GMPP tune on my Car I went to Sunoco and put in their Purple Pump Gas. Says At Least 104 Oct. to 112 at 8.+ a Gal I put 4 gal in .just to try it out . It seemed to come alive but not sure. Could have been just wanting it to be.

[tazz]

If your using a top grade fuel from a respected station you shouldnt even need fuel injector since they already contain cleaning additives.  If your not using a top grade fuel then it's probably a good idea use injector cleaner then switch to a top grade fuel.  With our direct injection setup not much can be done about carbon buildup on the valves since our injectors spray fuel into the combustion chamber and running the car leaner as in DI engines probably helps in this area.  While other car companies have had problems with this in the past it might be due to the engines not running as lean as the LNF does but could be wrong.  Just kind of thinking out loud since one of the tables viewed in HPT has the car running at 14.7 OR 14AFR for 92% of the table with the last four cell values on that table at a commanded AFR OF 13.7 12.9 and 12.8AFR above 6K. 

[Arabas]

interesting input guys!

here's one more story of a friend.
when we made our group buy of tunes from Vince, a guy asked for a very aggressive tune.
we went out to try it together. hic car had major hick ups, idling was not good at all and he got into limp mode, misfires and fuel pressure too low. it seemed that the car wouldn't work with such an agressive tune.
the guy used normal fuel (NOT premium) from the well respected and top brand gas station a lot of us get gas from.
that was a year ago. one month ago, he flashed his ecm with the exact same tune and put a racing fuel additive (something like 30 ml for a full tank, 30 ml cost something like $15 !!!).
his car not only works fine now with the same tune and the additive, but is also very powerfull compared to other GTs.

i know for sure (that's why i mentioned my father being a captain of tankers carrying fuel) that the quality of the fuel does not depend only on the station, but also to the procedures followed during the so many transportations of the fuel. and be sure we don't always get the fuel we think we get.

so we have

fuel injector cleaners additives
Additives that remove moisture
octane boosters

[rich71]

the additive to remove moisture will work for anyone that doesn't have fuel w ethanol....the "dry gas" that u put in the tank is alcohol based and we(in the states anyway) have 10% ethanol in the gas already. If anything,in the US we should stop making dry gas as it is now snake oil. If u need to use anything, its "stabil" or another type of stabilizer. I use it w every tank as sometimes my car sits around as it rains alot where I am and if I cant drive w the top down, i don't take her out.........phase separation is a horrible thing to deal with....E10 is a watersponge....stabil works for my needs.

[Arabas]

@moderators, administrators
is it OK, if i post a link to the web page of a well known brand of additives to take it as a base to discuss on the various products listed there ?

[GXPinKC]

Go for it Arabas.

[Arabas]

thx Ron!

so, this is a company known for additives.
besides the listed ones, there are a few more on the side bar, like "all season water remover" etc.

http://www.stp.com/products/fuel-additives/fuel-additives-comparison/

which ones would you use / suggest and why? (either this brand or similar products from other brands)

[Brad Kenny]

WOW, this topic just about dropped off the map. I do not use any octane boosters and such, but waiting to see what those that do use as a possible addition...

[Jebsmith]

Get water/meth injection.  Super safe.

[Brad Kenny]

 Major drawbacks, are there any? Cost per tank of gas? Tunability on a S/C or an NA? Losts of questions. No easy answers yet. I would use STP products if I knew they were safe for our fuel systems.

[Arabas]

Get water/meth injection.  Super safe.

Jeb, you might be 100% rightm but it's not actually a plug n play solution and needs some modifications.
in this topic, i was wondering if we could get some answers if these fuel additive products are any good or not.
i would really like it if you started a new thread about water/meth, what it is, how it helps and installation procedures

[G8TR]

I didn't know that ethanol soaked up all the water. Thanks

[rich71]

I didn't know that ethanol soaked up all the water. Thanks

Thats the big complaint with fuel sitting and especially in the marine community - Phase separation where the ethanol absorbs too much water and separates from the gasoline - messes things up... lawn mower can be tipped on its side to drain it out - kappa, not so much.

[rich71]

as far as additives, injector cleaners are ok..... as far as other additives, my understanding(no proof at all, just "hearsay") is that additives can make low quality/grade/octane/ gas better but they don't do much making "good" gas "great"......    It may be cheaper to buy a high grade gas w additives already in it then to purchase commercial additives on top of it from the automart...it may be all snake oil at some point

[Arabas]

ethanol soaking up all the water (moisture that is mixed in the fuel i suppose):
is that good? i mean we do want this right?
so methanol is a good ingredient in an additive?

[rich71]

the e10 blend is too good at water absorption. If you don't let the car sit for extended periods(winter sleeping for me) - its a non issue for the most part. if it sits around in damp weather for weeks, you are taking a chance. I don't know the ins and ous of methanol, but meth injection(blue washer fluid) is a different animal than pure methanol. I assume a couple ounces in a full tank has the same effect as a bottle of "drygas" but the effect isn't the same as meth injection...

[Graywolf]

I don't buy cheap gas . But I do have a aggresive tune which requires higher octane 105. This high octane gas is not available in a lot of places. I usually run Shell 93 octane with a can of Torque unleaded for every 10 gallons. High octane will not make your car run faster. Its to prevent engine knock from having the advance set higher than normal which does increase power when properly done. Your knock sensors will detect this and decrease your engine power if your octane is to low

[1LILNDN]

 I've used Sunoco The  Purple Pump Thats at least 105 or more .They can't advertise anything over 100 but test s have showed it higher. I have also used Airplane Fuel but it s Leaded .<----Only a couple times in the Solstice and alot in my 47 Pontiac.      

[old goat]

A few simple facts, we would be better off without ethanol, yes it absorbs water, it also will seperate after sitting a while and it leaves a "varnish" yep just like you put on furniture or a boat, that's where they get it, on the injectors. I is a good idea to use injector cleaner at least every 6 months even with good gas, some just add a couple of ounces of marine 2 cyl oil, it will clean the varnish and it's super cheap. For the most part 93 and 87 are the same gas with additives to boost octane in the 93, there is more energy in 87 than 93 but you can't run as much timing. Lots of things will boost octane, not all of them are good for your car, moth balls work, (Naptha) but it really pisses off the moth's, Xylene works (paint thinner), MEKP works it is already in gas just add more, MEK works (more paint thinner), Acetone works. I do not advocate any of them, B12 Chemtool works and it is cheap and won't hurt your car (contains MEKP), Chevron injector cleaner works well it's not cheap (it has Naptha in it by the way)