Topic: Water Pump FAILED, Right Motor Mount NOT BAD

[Brad Kenny]

Background:
Due to the consistent water pump failures across both platforms, I watch my coolant resevoir like a hawk. Everytime I pop the hood for cleaning, oil change, anything; I check the resevoir level.
 
About 1500 miles ago (before my Atlantic rounder to see the boys), I have an oil change done, check the fluids. Good to go...
 
Have not had the hood up since. (approximately 10 days).
 
This morning I go out and stick the key in, start the car and immediately get the low coolant light. WTF?!?
Stop the car, pop the hood and sure enough, fluid level is at the bottom of the resevoir tank, but not below the indicating range. (no air introduction).
 
Fill with DI water to the normal line (20 oz of water), drive to work. Of coarse I am now running late, so I pop into work, do the morning meetings, and at first chance pop the hood and find the level down about 1/4 of the resevoir level again. No fluid on ground, no sign of a hose or clamp failure.
 
I call the dealership, maybe we can look at it Monday or Tuesday. Grrr...
 
I wait another hour, check the fluid level, no change. I start the car and run it at idle for about 10 minutes, no visible leaks, no noted drips from the water pump or hoses. Distinct smell of DEXCOOL. Check the tail pipes, no white smoke, could tell you if there is a smell of coolant or not. Water level rises a little (due to heatup, normal) in the resevoir.
 
So hear I sit, trying to find a dealer who will take a look at it. before next week. (Have a trip to DDM for other installs in 8 days).
 
My first thought is water pump, some have had it intermittently dump fluid and then stop, others complete failure. I would be happy with either since I only have about 4 years and 57k miles (covered by powertrain/engine warranty). Other thought, water jacket or head gasket failure.
 
What should I be looking for? Obviously puddles, leaks, hose failures, coolant level etc. But what about the other (head gasket, jacket failure)?
 
Thanks for you input in advance. Hammy221, I know you have done this repair yourself, up for another one?
 
Now I am going home to remove my LV Brace and reinstall the stock air box baffle for a trip to the dealership. Will keep everyone informed of the outcome, if more occurs.

[tazz]

At first mine was leaking just intermittently and I did not notice right away but did notice low reservoir level.   Thought it was leaking from the overflow tube since I did see evidence of that happing dried drips on the fender wheel cover right below the overflow tube.  Even at the end the tech stated IIRC that it would leak a from the weep hole but only after 21lbs of pressure was  on the system. 
What is the normal pressure does our system operates?

[Critterman]

Jer, get the car in the air and look underneath along the right side bottom of the engine, trans and exhaust.  It could be hitting the exhaust and burning off.

[hammy221]

mine didnt drip to the ground it hit the frame and under carriage and dried there. when dexcol dyes it will look like a red goo almost. also if its dripping its more then likely coming from the bottom bearing failure indicator hole at the bottom of the Water Pump. you can look at it if you turn your wheel to the left and look though the wheel well from the back side while laying on the ground it takes a little working to get in just the right position but youll see it. if you locate the water pump intake line follow it to the water pump then look to the bottom of the pump. Also is your a NA with no forced induction added as i didnt see it on your mod page and if your within warranty go to the dealer if not and you decide to do it your self i have a few recommendations for you on the replacement so im me before you decide to take on the job.

[EarthNTX]

I had my pump replaced (warranty a few months ago)..it dripped a bit here and there. I thought it was the a/c until I touched the drips..   The drops were on the right side. Not alot, but enough to make the coolant level lower.

Good luck with that. 

[Brad Kenny]

I know based on past threads that this repair is covered by the 5 year 100k mile warranty. Anyone have any issues collecting on this? Are dealerships known for fixing this readily (similar to the rear diff) or are they going to fight the repair? I am sure it will be dealer based, but a good base knowledge is nice to have.

Thanks all for you input on where to look for the weepage and what to look for, now if the rain would just stop, I would be much happier.

[hammy221]

my dealer said no because of the ddm stage 2 but some will do  it anyways as they don't see how it could of caused an issue. if your stock then you will have no issues getting it warranted
 

[Brad Kenny]

As most know, my car is a stock NA with a DDM Tune. I pulled the LV Brace and the Mallet Mod to put back in the stock air "muffler". I also have a powdercoated valve cover but I can see that being a resaon to negate my warranty. We shall see.

The strangest thing is my level is now constant. Hasn't changed in over 24 hours and I even went out of my way to put close to 200 miles on my car to try and get it to leak. Strange.

I have talked with several people here. And all I can do now is watch and wait. I will get my car up on a lift Monday afternoon to do a more detailed inspection for the water pump areas mentioned above.

What are the chances of an internal leak. Failed cylinder, or head gasket? Again I have 57500 miles and this would seem a likey falure. I have watched for white smoke and coolant smell and as of yet, nothing.

[efbrodiesr]

Check your dipstick for oil level.  If you have an internal leak and you are not burning off antifreeze, It could be leaking into your crankcase which would increase the oil level on the dipstick.  I remember only one post where this has happened.  He got a new motor out of it.

[EarthNTX]

I know based on past threads that this repair is covered by the 5 year 100k mile warranty. Anyone have any issues collecting on this? Are dealerships known for fixing this readily (similar to the rear diff) or are they going to fight the repair? I am sure it will be dealer based, but a good base knowledge is nice to have.

Thanks all for you input on where to look for the weepage and what to look for, now if the rain would just stop, I would be much happier.

I had mine repaired under warranty. It took 10 days, but it was done last May, when I first got the car! I just wondered if they used that special tool. I'm getting kinda paranoid now. Wonder why.

[J_Bond]

I'm wondering if there is some other bizarre facet to this problem that we just haven't picked up on yet.  I mean it's AWFUL STRANGE that suddenly you have no leak after re-filling...  I had my coolant drop a little bit awhile back, re-filled and no problem since.  There's gotta be something else going on with the LE5

[Brad Kenny]

I agree with checking the oil level. Level has been constant with no foaming. Water has a property when mixed with oil and passed across temperature and churning to turn oil a light tan almost milky tan color. Oil is a nice clear and bright oil color. Still keeping my eyes peeled for any other abnormalities. Still no change wiith level. Hrumph...

I am definitely frustrated. Next step will be to drain the oil keeping the last quart in a jar to look for oil/water separation. Still cannot find a leak anywhere. Has it ever been known for a hose to have an intermittent leak? Possibly weepage at a clamp or somewhere else?

[Brad Kenny]

So in my constant watching of the resevoir level I have come up with the following observations:

From a 50 degree morning cold start level to an 85 degree engine nicely warmed up the level changed by almost 1.5 inches in the tank.

When I had my "low level" situation it was 45 degrees out after a very warm day the day before and when my oil was changed it was 85ish and before a very hard and hot run to VA and back.

Since I have had no change in level other than thermodynamic contraction and expansion due to ambient changes and running the engine, I have come to the following conclusion:

The level was originally lower than I thought in the tank when I had the oil change (7500 miles and 4 months between oil changes) and no fluid was added.

I drove the car hard to VA and back including seeing several times at 214 while sitting in stop and go and 105-150 IAT.

With cooldown of the engine, coolant and associated systems, and not raising the hood, I did not see the gradual lowering level in the tank over a week of abnormally cold temps.

I have searched the entire cooling system, to no avail. Unless I am having a bi-metallic failure at only cold temps, I will probably never know the true cause of the loss of coolant.

The only other option I can consider is I had a "summer" steam and water void in the radiator and the cooler weather caused condensate subcooling and finally collapsed "the bubble" thereby needing the contents of the resevoir for refilling.

I will continue to monitor level frequently, including the water pump but as of now, there is no smoking gun.

[idkfa]

Glad to hear that it's not a failure.  I think I'm in the same boat where all my changes to the coolant routing system have just altered some of its behavior.  I too saw a good inch drop in coolant at one point but nothing has changed since; I probably didn't get all the air out or something.

[Brad Kenny]

I find it absolutely amazing what you can and cannot find on our cars while on a "real" shop lift (4 point).

Today I finally convinced my friends at M&M Motoring (who are from Romania) to lift my car for the Water Pump Failure inspection. Results, some very old residue on the crossmember frame near the steering linkage right side. (Thanks Critter and Bill Hahn Jr) I think the pump leaked at some point but to what extent will never be known. I monitor the level now and will keep doing so until it trends again.

While searching for the allusive coolant and based on a recommendation from Dave at DDMWorks about an entirely separate issue of a vibration in the rear end between 50-60 mph, my good friend notes some "goo" in an area under the Catalytic converter. He follows it back to the source and sure enough it is leaking out of the pillowball for the right side motor mount. FAILED!

We talk replacement he tells me to call the dealer. I give him some money for his time and lift, he refuses, so I pay his brother at the counter and promise to continue to send work his way. BTW, a black SOL GXP was in the lot awaiting new brakes, I did not have a KAPPAPERFORMANCE.COM card or I would have definititely left one.

I call My dealership, they tell me that it is a 3 year/36k mile warranty part but have never heard of one failing and to bring it in next week for inspection and replacement. FREE. I thank them generously and promise to have the car to them as soon as I get back from a 2000 mile trip to SC and back for a new clutch. He says fine and wishes me luck and says "no problem". That means Lindsey will have 60k miles on her when the dealer looks at her for a plugged rear differential vent and a failed right side motor mount. Needless, I really like my dealership and they have been on the "list" for a very long time.

So Monday, off to DDM for a stage 3 clutch, center console, steel brake lines and a new throw-out bearing. Anyone wanna go? I will be traveling the I-95 corridor from CT to SC and then across 20 to 26 to Greenville.

Thank you again for the infinite wisdom of this forum. Without you, and this community, these cars just wouldn't be the same.

[GXPinKC]

CT Solstice, certainly glad that your plugged rear differential vent and the failed right side motor mount were covered under warranty and that you will soon be good to go after the warranty work.  Just glad that there was nothing else found.

[Brad Kenny]

Thanks GXPinKC! JUST HOPING I will be able to make it to DDM and back in one piece. I have confidence this is the same problem I reported to the dealership at 35k miles and was told it was the rear diff was low on fluid. (I checked the fluid level today, sat) That is why IMHO they are fixing it for free. Same issue, not a rear diff problem, leaking motor mount, sure we'll take care of it for you for free. I again cannot stress that they are a great service department and most of the CT Kappas go there for this reason alone. They will even work on cars with aftermarket parts including WERKS and DDM mods. As long as you haven't modified the the stock turbo or the engine. They don't even mind the Solo CAT.

[Helios]

So Monday, off to DDM...

While you're there, you no touchy my car. ok? goot! It might give you too many ideas.

[Brad Kenny]

No worries, would you like more pics? I could text you video of walk around of the car?
 
BTW, got the joke, just didn't think it was funny seeing how you haven't even driven Gwyneth yet. I am sure she will be beautiful!

[Helios]

No worries, would you like more pics? I could text you video of walk around of the car?
 
BTW, got the joke, just didn't think it was funny seeing how you haven't even driven Gwyneth yet. I am sure she will be beautiful!

It's like one of those prearranged marriage things except this one's already had an owner.

[DickW]

CT I had the same thing happen on my GXP. had to add Dexcool twice over about a 3 day period.. That was about 6 weeks ago. No problems since.

[spicy3480]

Out of curiosity, what did the noise sound like.  I have a noise that sounds like its coming from the front right of the car.  It happens when I go over road abnormalities.  It sounds just compressing the springs on an old mattress.  I have had the car on my dads lift 3 times already and they have pulled on the suspension really hard and all over and the sound happens when three of them pull on the front sway bar.  The sway bar is tight and they checked everything around it.  Could that be the motor mount as well?

[TomatoSoup]

Spiky, that sounds like the sway bar bushing squeak.  Try greasing them?

[spicy3480]

Spiky, that sounds like the sway bar bushing squeak.  Try greasing them?

Already did....definitely not the sway bar.

[Arabas]

steve, although i am off topic, it could be the LVFB squeaking in some occassions.
for what is worth, when rigth side of the car's front end is on my parking ramp and the left part is still on the road, i hear a squeak that i didn't have before. it could be the body wanting to flex and the LVFB not letting it do that. so pressure is on the LFVB and it squeaks, since it has no rubber where it holds the frame.
just a thought.  (p.s. i really like my LFVB for it offers better handling on the road)