Topic: Bigger turbo, more aiflow but not more HP?!

[Sol Asylum]

I'm the tall one.  Kelu is smaller than a midget.

Damn, and he has a slow car too, it must suck to be Kelu!

GJ I hear that Pizza Boy won't race near schools, it's just not safe with all those cops hanging around there.  Now if Kelu feels safe "racing" in a 20 mph school zone that may explain how he is putting the drag in drag racing.

[elff]

Get some 275s back there.  It made a world of difference in my traction

[miller11386]

I would really recommend putting the dump tube to atmosphere if you think you are having back pressure issues. That would free up the motor to breathe a little better.

When you get some time, let me know if its a tial 38mm, 44mm or 60mm. I have been debating on which of these to get for my car, and im curious if the 44 is enough flow to keep the turbo from creeping up/ having large boost spikes

Also where are the videos of this thing on the dyno?

[Kelu]

No videos on dyno on this session I have to work

[Kelu]

I got a call from greek tuner, the new housing produced a huge lag, so no surprises about the fast spooling of this turbo.

They went back to .64 turbine housing, modified the dump of the wastegate to be atmospherically and started to do the software on the dyno 2h ago. They keep the boost low, like 1.4 bar ~ 20psi so the tuner can see it on the HPT. First numbers are more than I expected

All info came by phone so I hope is not a joke.

[Arabas]

why would that be a joke? april 1st is gone.

looking forward to your updates buddy!

what are the first numbers?

[Kelu]

Raised the boost to 25psi and stopped the tuning session because of the spark plugs.
I had LTR6IX-11 which are same as stock regapped down to 0.028" iirc
Tomorrow they will put the extra set of spark plugs which I had home (duuh) ILTR6A-8G (3787) which even they are still heat range 6, they are a step colder and seem to work great on LNF with more power.

[LatinVenom]

Good luck Kelu, I hope they can get it dial in like you want.

[SKY888]

I got a call from greek tuner, the new housing produced a huge lag, so no surprises about the fast spooling of this turbo.

They went back to .64 turbine housing, modified the dump of the wastegate to be atmospherically and started to do the software on the dyno 2h ago. They keep the boost low, like 1.4 bar ~ 20psi so the tuner can see it on the HPT. First numbers are more than I expected

All info came by phone so I hope is not a joke.

that's what I already assumed .........LAG with a bigger turbine AR.

Kelu, I thought you don't mind LAG with your set-up?  why go back with the smaller AR?


I felt the big lag when I went from .6 ar to .8 ar on my gt3582..........and I know your big turbo will suffer even more.

our 2 liter engines......makes it worst....lol


Anyways, I hope this new tuner of yours will do wonders with the comp turbo w/ the smaller AR housing..........and will give you a fast spooling turbo....with a good top end power!

keep us updated.

[SKY888]

When you get some time, let me know if its a tial 38mm, 44mm or 60mm. I have been debating on which of these to get for my car, and im curious if the 44 is enough flow to keep the turbo from creeping up/ having large boost spikes

my 38mm tial wg had no issues controlling 28psi of gt3582r.

but I'm not sure what build you are trying to do.....
I still think that 38 or 44mm wg, will be more than adequate.

60mm will be just overkill.








anyways...hope this helps (taken from wikipedia):

Wastegate sizing is inversely proportionate to the desired level of boost and is somewhat independent of the size or power of the engine. One vendor's guide for wastegate sizing is as follows:[3]

big turbo/low boost = bigger wastegate
big turbo/high boost = smaller wastegate
small turbo/low boost = bigger wastegate
small turbo/high boost = smaller wastegate

However, exhaust flow is an effect of power. So, another decision chart should look like this.

big turbo/small engine/small power = small wastegate
big turbo/big engine/ small power = medium wastegate
big turbo/small engine/big power = big wastegate
small turbo/small engine/small power = small wastegate
small turbo/big engine/any power level = big wastegate -->The reason for this is that the small turbine will easily try to overspin from excess exhaus gas volume.

[Kelu]

Kelu, I thought you don't mind LAG with your set-up?  why go back with the smaller AR?

Because full boost was happening around 5500-6000rpm  this is what they told me

Reasons:
How I'm supposed to launch at that RPM?
How I'm supposed to race with a maximum 1000rpm window? 

Regarding the wastegate ratings in order to be able to choose correctly a definition is required:
small/big turbo;
low/high boost;
small/big engine
 

[SKY888]

oh wow....full boost at 5500-6000rpm?   

talking about lag..huh?  lol

I guess....time for you to get supertech valve springs....so you can go around 8500rpm



if you ask me.....for our LNF engine

small turbo = ko4 

big turbo = gt35 and bigger




let's hope that your small AR turbine housing.....will let your big turbo spool fast again............and give you power that you need.

[miller11386]

Antonio you should know by now... I always go for overkill

[Kelu]

OK here the result for this session:
car remained 375hp even they reached 400hp they decided to go back a little to be safe.

The problems:
1) even if the put NGK 3787 spark plugs today, they worst than stock, I need to buy asap heat range 8 and maybe 9
2) even yesterday they put a new manifold MAP sensor, today they told me the blow it again, the previous one was from factory working for last 3 years, that sounds weird in my ears, tomorrow I will read the code and see exactly. The problem is that I'm on 2.7bar sensors and I can't interchange them so I can be sure if is broken or not.
3) Above 6500rpm and over 25psi it lacks of spark, the ECU tuner blamed the coils, this is first time when I hear about this, anyone had this issue?

Saga will continue.

[elff]

That's really interesting, another Greek car blew up the 2 bar map sensors when tuning it for the 2871.
Do you have the 2 or 3 bar sensors on the car?

[Gentleman Jack]

.........The problem is that I'm on 2.7bar sensors and I can't interchange them so I can be sure if is broken or not........

Come on Elff....

[elff]

I missed that
I have 2 spare 3 bar sensors.  If you need them let me know.  I would need to get the proper oring but that is all.

[Arabas]

That's really interesting, another Greek car blew up the 2 bar map sensors when tuning it for the 2871.
Do you have the 2 or 3 bar sensors on the car?

You know more than i do... U sure u dont live around here?
First time I hear about map sensors go kaboom...
Kelu, i hope the saga continues with better luck from now on

[elff]

I have my sources


But yes they damaged them. I think it was a tuning issue and probably 100% different than what Kelu ran into.
Just kind of weird on the correlation

[Kelu]

I can't find info about spark plugs. I'm looking for Heat Range 8 plugs and I don't know what is the NGK model, all I know is:
- Stock - ILTR5D. This is a 5 heat range plug
- LTR6AIX-11 - Stock# 6509 - Heat range 6 (this I had in first dyno session)
- ILTR6A-8G - Stock# 3787 - Still heat range 6 (this I had on the second dyno session and they told me they even worst than previous ones)
- LTR7IX-11 - Stock# 6510 - Heat range 7 - I will buy a set of these also just as spares

They asked me for a set of Heat Range 8 and 9, but I can't find what is the model of these, does anyone knows?

[elff]

I sent you a PM.

Are the AC Delco 41-108s and NGK LTR6AIX-11 the same heat range?
Are they asking for the AC Delco 41-102s which originally came with the earlier years?

[HAMMER DOWN]

Back in July,2011. I change my spark plugs, OEM plugs are the AC 41-108. After 65k they gap at .033. I went to a colder plug.  Because I'm running the GMPP tune, with max boost over 23psi. & the color of the plugs was whiter then I like. The plugs, Autolite  XP5263, equivalent to the AC 41-102. The original plug for the early 07 GXP.

The Autolite  XP5263 is not plug & play. Gap out of the box is .048. I gap then down to .035.

Kelu mite want to take a look at these Autolites.

Mike

[Kelu]

Are the AC Delco 41-108s and NGK LTR6AIX-11 the same heat range?

ACDelco 41-108 are NGK ILTR5D so they are heat range 5. They are manufactured by NGK and labeled ACDelco.

Are they asking for the AC Delco 41-102s which originally came with the earlier years?

No, they asked 3 steps colder (heat range 8 even 9) than stockers.

I had heat range 6 (6509 & 3787) they gapped them down to  0.025 but still no good, I could find heat range 7 in UK (6510) but I can't find the heat range 8 model info.


HAMMER DOWN: those sounds heat range 5, i need 8 I would stick with NGK

[LatinVenom]

Kelu if AC 41-108 are heat range 5, the AC 41-102 are much colder and those are on my car.

[Kelu]

Kelu if AC 41-108 are heat range 5, the AC 41-102 are much colder and those are on my car.

As far as I know "41-108 is replacement for the original 41-102" (quote from Small_Dealer)
I can't find any proper information on AC Delco's and being manufactured by NGK I prefer to stick with the last ones, also I'm pretty sure that none of those are heat range 8.