Topic: BSS-brake warp again! Are you F'n kidding me?

[BlackSunShine]

I'm out of ideas. At 30k, I had total brake warp of the RF (passenger side) rotor. I replaced them with aftermarket rotors and pad. I’m at 66k now and I'm getting the same damn issue on the same rotor. These rotors were supposed to be guaranteed NOT to warp. Now when driving home, I'm getting that wobble when braking from high speed again.

So here is some history. I have snow tires that I put on in December every year and typically run through February. They are one size down from stock. Last year I didn't know to have them aligned after I swapped tires, so I thought that may have caused the stock rotor to warp. This year I had them aligned the day I changed them. However, I feel it again. Now, since this is my daily driver, I can't just wait for it to snow and then swap them out and go driving. I'm curious if driving with my snow tires on with this warmer weather has caused the issue? Could there be other issues that I'm not thinking of? Maybe some alignment part is out of balance or bent or something?

I'm starting to think I'm too stupid to own a sports car.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Do you have after market calipers?

Did you bed in the new rotors?  Really important!!!

If you have stock calipers and bed them in properly, you may have a sticking caliper.  It will need to be replaced.  That will lead to warped rotors.

[JimmyBaja]

What he said ^

[Treeman]

Agree.  Not your tires.  I have winter tires, a size down, did not realign, no problems.  Look at the brake components.

[Carbon Sky]

I have run a 16" winter wheel package for 3 straight years now, and no problems with my brakes.  My guess is improper bedding, or seized caliper, as others have mentioned.

Do you have access to a "laser/infrared" thermometer?  You can use that to look for a difference in temperature between the driver and passenger side.  That will help diagnose a dragging/seized caliper.

[NormSky]

Winter moisture/rust sometimes require a rebedding like Joe mentioned.

[elff]

I actually ran into that for the first time just the other day.
I came home after it was raining and parked the sky for the night. 
The next morning it was cold and when I went to reverse it out of the garage, the brakes popped off the rotors

[numbbers]

Improper bedding will not warp a rotor.  Wet brakes will not warp a rotor.  The only thing that will warp a rotor is excessive heat buildup.  Commen occurrence here in Colorado, due to our mountain driving.  Most likely you have a brake pad that is rubbing due to a caliper problem, causing the heat buildup.  It could be a sticking piston, or a caliper slide that needs lube.  If you need a new caliper, I have a full set, that you can have for cheap.

[Sol Asylum]

Another way to warp a rotor is uneven cool down say having hot brakes and spraying the rotor with water from a puddle.

Improperly torqued lug nuts can cause issues too.

[Carbon Sky]

Another way to warp a rotor is uneven cool down say having hot brakes and spraying the rotor with water from a puddle.

Improperly torqued lug nuts can cause issues too.

When it comes to uneven cooling that's typically caused when someone comes to a dead stop, say at a red light, after a hard stop or two.  Particularly if you have to hold the brake at the red light.

[POS VETT]

Do you sit on the brake pedal when stopped ?

[Sol Asylum]

I guess it depends on what's in the wheel cleaner.

The comment on the pad crumbling has me wondering whats going on there though.

[tazz]

Got way too hot from the calipers sticking?

[Gentleman Jack]

Pictures?

Do you hear, feel or smell dragging brakes?

If the rotors really are wrapped again, I'd be looking at the wheel hub or the wheels themselves, Lug nuts, studs etc. something is putting force that shouldn't be.

[Dave@DDMworks]

With the weather being what it is, I swapped out the winter tires back to my summer ones this weekend. When I checked the pads, they seem to be crumbling where the pad meets the rotor.... I'm researching Hawk Street pads as replacements.

Go with the Hawk HPS pads, they will work very well for the driving you do. I personally do not like the Hawk ceramic pads and the HP plus are very noisy on the Solstice/Sky.

[Carbon Sky]

Go with the Hawk HPS pads, they will work very well for the driving you do. I personally do not like the Hawk ceramic pads and the HP plus are very noisy on the Solstice/Sky.

I've tried the HP+ and the HPS, but never the ceramics yet.  What didn't you like about them?

I too found thee HP+ CRAZY noisy.  I don't know why they don't address that as otherwise it's a good pad.

I found the HPS were REALLY hard on rotors, a lot of brake dust, and didn't have very good pedal feel, and I've seen some people with issues where the friction material was kinda crumbly.  But that was a few years ago.

I've tried the PBR ULT ceramic, on a previous car, and they were amazing compared to the HPS and HP+.  Dusted less, quiet, gentle on rotors, but still great cold bite, and didn't let up even after a few hard stops.  It never saw track time, but I'm pretty hard on the car on the street, and cracked rotors from heat on the stock rotors with HPS pads.  I switched the rotors with stock sized Brembos, blank, no holes/slots, and PBR ULT ceramic pads, and damn, as good braking as the HPS when hot, better than HPS when cold, was gentler on rotors, and dusted way less than the HPS.

Definitely going to go with something ceramic when these stockers start to wear a little more.  3+ years in on a daily driver, and there's still TONNES of pad and rotor left.

[Dave@DDMworks]

I've tried the HP+ and the HPS, but never the ceramics yet.  What didn't you like about them?

I too found thee HP+ CRAZY noisy.  I don't know why they don't address that as otherwise it's a good pad.

I found the HPS were REALLY hard on rotors, a lot of brake dust, and didn't have very good pedal feel, and I've seen some people with issues where the friction material was kinda crumbly.  But that was a few years ago.

I've tried the PBR ULT ceramic, on a previous car, and they were amazing compared to the HPS and HP+.  Dusted less, quiet, gentle on rotors, but still great cold bite, and didn't let up even after a few hard stops.  It never saw track time, but I'm pretty hard on the car on the street, and cracked rotors from heat on the stock rotors with HPS pads.  I switched the rotors with stock sized Brembos, blank, no holes/slots, and PBR ULT ceramic pads, and damn, as good braking as the HPS when hot, better than HPS when cold, was gentler on rotors, and dusted way less than the HPS.

Definitely going to go with something ceramic when these stockers start to wear a little more.  3+ years in on a daily driver, and there's still TONNES of pad and rotor left.

The ceramics that we have tried here, just always left something to be desired. The braking was always less with the ceramics we have tried then with the HPS.

Kinda interested in the cracked rotors you talk about. Were those stock rotors or aftermarket? Also if the HPS causes your rotors to crack it would be because they were able to put more heat into the rotors and if you were not able to crack the rotors with the ceramics, it would be because they could not put as much heat into the rotors. Heat is generated by the amount of force the pads can exert on the rotors, and so all things being equal (which I am not sure they were), would mean that the HPS pads exerted more force then the ceramics.

As for the HP plus pads, it is really weird that they are so noisy on the Solstice/Sky as we have used them on other applications (Miata, MINI) and they are almost always dead quiet.

Also, have you tried the Portefield pads, particularily the R4S? Those are another favorite street pad of ours.

Let me know about the cracked rotors, interested in that one.

Thanks!
Dave

[TomatoSoup]

Dave (Randy?) - what pads does Randy use on the 'guinea pig' Solstice?

[Carbon Sky]

The ceramics that we have tried here, just always left something to be desired. The braking was always less with the ceramics we have tried then with the HPS.

Kinda interested in the cracked rotors you talk about. Were those stock rotors or aftermarket? Also if the HPS causes your rotors to crack it would be because they were able to put more heat into the rotors and if you were not able to crack the rotors with the ceramics, it would be because they could not put as much heat into the rotors. Heat is generated by the amount of force the pads can exert on the rotors, and so all things being equal (which I am not sure they were), would mean that the HPS pads exerted more force then the ceramics.

As for the HP plus pads, it is really weird that they are so noisy on the Solstice/Sky as we have used them on other applications (Miata, MINI) and they are almost always dead quiet.

Also, have you tried the Portefield pads, particularily the R4S? Those are another favorite street pad of ours.

Let me know about the cracked rotors, interested in that one.

Thanks!
Dave

The cracks were found in the stock rotors (Nissan).  They were not severe cracks, but across much of the contacted area, there were many small cracks that were radial to the rotor.  There were also patches of discolouration, as though the pads did not leave an even transfer film on the rotors, which caused some areas to heat more than others.

I performed the same type of driving, in the same type of conditions (both on road and track), and the Brembos with the PBR ULT Ceramics held up way better than the stock rotors with Hawk HPS.  And like I said, if anything, at high temperatures, the ceramics felt great!  And didn't leave the same uneven transfer film or friction area on the disc.

I think it was more a matter of the HPS not generating friction evenly over the entire surface.

The porterfield R4S are not bad.  Just a little dusty compared to others.  Felt a lot like the HPS to me.

[Dave@DDMworks]

Dave (Randy?) - what pads does Randy use on the 'guinea pig' Solstice?

When?  He has had a lot of different pads on that car.

We have ran Stock, HPS, HP plus, Ceramics, Portefields, Willwood and Ferodo pads in his car at different times and caliper combinations. I still prefer the Portefields for the best overall pad and believe that is what is still on his car. We have a couple other options that I am getting in to test though and should have some feedback on those soon.

[miller11386]

Feel free to test the pads and rotors on the gray one dave

[Critterman]

Miller you will need new rotors and pads after he is done testing, probably tires as well.

[Critterman]

I'm running Porterfields

[Carbon Sky]

If you drive very aggressively on the street the Porterfield R4Ss are pretty good.  My problem was, I wasn't hard enough on them often enough.  And that caused problems with a consistent transfer film patch over the friction area of the rotor.  That ended up causing uneven levels of grip across the friction area.  Which caused uneven heating of the friction area.  Which led to heat stress, tiny radial cracks.  I got similar problems with the Hawk HPS.  But if you get on them hard enough, often enough, it's not a problem.

Oh, and it's only a theory, but I think that problem could also have been related to some crumbliness of the friction material I mentioned.  Mine was very minor compared to what I've seen with others.

I don't have this problem when I'm on my summer tires.  But in the winter, on winter tires, I don't get the brakes hot enough often enough, and I think I would have problems.  And I'm not willing to swap brake pads like winter/summer wheel and tires.  So I think I will end up going with something ceramic (seems to be the best of both worlds in terms of cold and hot performance).  But either the R4S and HPS are pretty good brake pad upgrades.  You just have to live with lower coefficient of friction at the same pedal pressure, and until they get a little heat into them.  But you get a bunch more hot performance in return.

[miller11386]

Miller you will need new rotors and pads after he is done testing, probably tires as well.

I'm ok with that... something tells me dave would hook me up with a good deal on new ones.