Topic: 2014 NASSM Discussion Thread

[DeepBlueGXP]

Ihawk, I only mentioned that number because people kept mentioning there is 415 people discussing this on FB when that isn't correct. 

I can run bots to make it look like there are many users viewing my forum each day but that doesn't add to the value of the information.  It's a number and I don't play those games with number.

 I'm glad that there is discussion on FB and the other forums on what/how/location for future meets, that means people still have an interest in our cars and the bond it has in our community.  Without that, the Kappa family would cease to exist.

I for one appreciate DaveOC cross posting this on here and the other forums.

[Critterman]

I think this conversation has come to the point where one side has one opinion and the other side has a different opinion.  The two sides will never agree and this thread is not going to change anyone's mind.  Admin can some lock this thread.

Thank you,

Crit

[Gentleman Jack]

GJ, Just don't say anything.....

[DaveOC]

Well, this certainly isn't the discussion I was hoping for when I made the first post.   

1.  I agree with elff when he states that FB is not the correct tool for having this sort of discussion. This is the type of thing that forums were made and designed for having.   Unfortunately, all the users are migrating to Facebook, regardless of the privacy issues of that platform.  That is a fact of life, and people need to deal with it, one way or another.

2.  Thanks, DBG, for your brief words of support.

3.  Do I feel beat up, ihawk? A bit, but it's something that happens on forums from time to time. I've been on forums, BBSs, and similar since they were invented, so the shell has thickened a bit. 

4.  While I keep an eye on Facebook and even participate there, I still read/visit 5 or 6 forums daily.  I can say for certain that there is a lot less forum participation than there was 3-4 years ago.  My Solstice will be celebrating its 7th birthday in another 3 months.

5.  I am one of those "people who actually know technology."  I've been making a living in the computer biz since the late 70s.
 
6.  Thanks for putting up with me here in the forum of mods and modding.  My 1st 1K Solstice is still stock, except for a probeam and backbone.

7. Continue with your discussion, or not, as you see fit.  I did my duty, as I see it, by making the announcement I did in the first post.

 

[Sly Bob]

Let's try to get this back on track and talk about what we are looking for in 2014.

Who is expressing interest in putting a national meet together?

[ihawk95]

Missouri/Arkansas, Michigan has been mentioned, but I'm nit sure Rich has posted this time around, and all over the NE...PA, NY, MA, NJ, VT, CT, Maine.  I heard some mentions of San Diego, but it was only a suggestion. It wasn't from a group stepping up and saying they would be interested.

[elff]

For PA, in 2013 NASCAR's Pocono race is scheduled for June 13. 
That is the only thing we would want to make sure would not conflict.  All of the Hotels get booked as soon as the race is announced.

It looks like it's normally not on the Summer Solstice, but figured I would mention it as they have not announced the tentative 2014 schedule.

I head that San Diego thing too, but oddly enough, it was only scribbled in POO.  So weird. 

[Gentleman Jack]

Scribbled in POO on Elff's Facebook page!

iHawk, thanks for the help creating the new FB page.  I never new there were so many gnome pictures to pic from for his main photo.

On a more serious note, San Diego really would be a great place to host the event except for the fact that it's San Diego.  It isn't convenient for anyone to get to, including the people in Southern California.  It's almost like we are in Mexico for peets sake.  It's also not a cheap place to visit, although in this economy it's cheaper than it used to be.

Flagstaff is just close enough to temp me next year, but my attendance all hinges on Elff's attendance.  Elff, can you swing by and pick me up on the way?

[solli]

Hello everyone, my apologies for being remiss in posting over here.

I've just sorta skimmed through the posts here but I'll mention this - there are roughly 419 members listed for the 2014 Planning Page Group. Where they all came from beats me, at any give time we have four or five peeps posting their opinions or suggestions to the page.

A few years ago, I mentioned the possibility of our group (MASSC) hosting the National in the Catskills region of upper NY state around Cooperstown/Cobleskill. I posted it to the forums and was beat up a bit over it but also supported somewhat. That being said, this time around, I posted a query regarding the PA/Harrisburg/Hershey/Carlisle area in addition to a query about the NY location.

We are now discussing the Poconos due to the traffic congestion surrounding Rt 81 Harrisburg, the lack of spirited driving roads, and the perceived need for proximity to the event location. This doesn't rule out NY State - support has been expressed for that venue also.

I've received messages of support regarding financial seed money, road mapping, and boots on the ground help from forum members
in MA, CT, MD and other states. Joe offered the use of this site for web support, and I appreciate his offer. GM Roadster is putting together a website for the  2013 National and beyond but it doesn't mean I'd like to use it. Too darn independent at this point...

elff, I looked into the Pocono's Track Day schedule for 2012  it appears there is a limited window for the "Drive your own car" program and it seems fairly expensive too. We'll be contacting them for info on their 2014 race schedule.

Anyway, I'll keep everyone posted as to the progress, I just don't relish the thought of spending time on the forums to debate with people who have no intention of going to a National or those who just want to rain on the parade.  I don't have time for that anymore.

So having said this I'll TTYL!
Michele 
aka solli4me - owner of a 2006 Cool Solstice named Amelia
and a 2010 Mini Cooper S
(you can email me at mylyte@gmail.com)

The time is actually 12:22am!

[Sol Asylum]

Scribbled in POO on Elff's Facebook page!

iHawk, thanks for the help creating the new FB page.  I never new there were so many gnome pictures to pic from for his main photo.

Here are two more that you can choose from

[miller11386]

Just FYI because it has already been misrepresented

Being a "member" of a FB "group" does not mean that you joined the group. It means someone added you to the group, and you have not removed yourself yet.

IE i was in the 2014 planning group until i removed myself today. This is just because someone added all the kappa friends they could find to make it look like a huge number.

So basically I could start a group called "GJ's magical donkey show attendees" add 600 people, and the group would have 600 members until they removed themselves from it

[ihawk95]

And I understand that. There are thousands of forum members and not all of them are active.

I've already said this repeatedly here.  My point was it's exposure. I didn't join the FB group either...I was added, but there's a hell of a lot more activity by more people on it there than the forums combined. You at least saw the group, right? 

I like numbers...here's what I'm seeing:
FB - 39 people discussing or liking the last 7 topics with over 120 replies to those topics.  I'm not number spinning.  That's a fact.  One topic has 53 replies.  One has 39, 1 with 1 reply, another with 16, another with 13, another with 1 and another with 3.  And that is just the first 7 topics that come up when you go to the page.  I'm not counting the topic that has 92 comments.  That one is #9.  I also didn't count the topic about the Pool, so as not to inflate anything.  Last reply was 4 hrs ago.

Solstice Forum - 17 replies total.  9 people participated.  Last reply 6/28
Sky Roadster - 8 replies total.  5 people participated.  Last reply 6/28.
KP - 88 replies.  About 22 people participating.  This was a quick count so forgive me if I'm a couple people off.  The forums are easy to count who has participated.

FB is most active with more people
KP is next, however most of the discussion is about FB.  If the thread gets trimmed it will look different.  How much, I'm not sure.
Then SF
Then SR.

The numbers above are not exaggerated or skewed.  I took the forum info straight off the replies info that shows who posted and how many times the person posted.  KP only shows number of replies.  I had to count who posted.  I did the same for FB.  If I miscounted, it's only by 1 or 2 people, not 10's.  You can argue the number of legitimate members of the FB group.  You can refute how they joined.  You can't argue the fact that the majority of discussion is happening there vs here.  If you deny it as a legitimate communication tool and its CURRENT validity in discussions about current and future events, you are being extremely short sighted.

Here is a 2nd example:  T2TR event discussion

Threads and group were started on Friday.
Main FB topic about the event has 98 comments.  24 participants in that discussion alone.  Actually, there were 25, but I was asked to remove a post, but they will repost again later.  For reference only...there are 100 members...most of whom were invited, some have asked to join.  There are at least another 7 commenting in the group.
SF - 12 replies, 8 participating
SR - 1 post, 1 participating
KP - I don't even think it's been posted here yet.

I'd love to have skewed the above, but I did not.  I would love to have misrepresented the above.  Please tell me how I have?  What spin could I possibly have put on the above 2 examples?  That is active discussion, not membership (although I included T2TR membership for reference purposes.)  The forum info can be verified.  FB users can verify the FB information to make certain I reported it correctly.  All the discussion used to be on the forums.  The T2TR threads used to be some of the most active on the Solstice forum with over 1000 replies.  Over 1400 in 2008, over 1300 in 2009.  Not anymore.  That thread will be lucky to hit 100 on the Sol Side.  The only thing I didn't do, and this might be interesting actually, is to go back and determine if the participants are the same on each site. There is definitely carryover from one site to the next. But that could get difficult since some have migrated mainly to FB.

I hope my point is now clear.  When I posted the 415 number on FB, I didn't mean there were 415 active participants in the group.  I meant there were already 415 FB users exposed to that group in a matter of a few days.  I know that is better exposure than the forums even though there are thousands of forum members.  Unless a thread is active, most members don't see it.  I know I don't unless it's on the list of recent topics,  especially when I'm not on the forums for days or weeks at a time.  I could go back and count up all the participants on FB, but given what I counted in 7 topics, I'd estimate there are at least 50 active participants out of what is now 429 members of the group.  My guess is 50 is low.  And we already have 2 of you who are bowing out of the group, but you've seen it and been exposed 2 it.  Which is what the 400+ number gives you on FB.  You saw the group existed whereas you could completely miss that there even was discussion on SF or SR, especially when the threads haven't been active in 4 days.  I hope that makes sense in trying to point out that 400 is a significant number of exposure.
 
Now... let me try again to move on since this isn't about FB and apparently people can't get past that...

So as Solli mentioned... PA...Hershey/harrisburg area has been discussed but lack of roads and construction around the area may be an issue.  The Poconos is really taking off.  A lot of people volunteering to help out there.  The MASSC group is talking about looking into hotels that may be able to support the event. Contacting the visitor's bureaus in the areas of interest and contacting local racetracks to see about track time has been discussed.

*edit* - in this thread there are 37 posts that having something to due with future National Meets and aren't focused on FB.
There are 23 participants in this thread.  I made a list of who for cross referencing the other forums.  There will be some carryover.  How much, I'm not sure.
SF - Out of 9 participants, 3 have also participated here.  2 of the 3 have participated on FB.  3 additional SF participants also participated on FB
SR - Out of 5 participants, 3 have also participated here.  Same 3 as on the SF also.  1 participated on SF and SR only.

FB will take more time to analyze.
72 participating on FB.

[ihawk95]

Could we start a separate discussion regarding FB and it's activity vs the forums please?  Maybe clean this thread up?

Merely a suggestion.  If there is no value to that, no problem.

[SHiNY]

Selfishly, I love the idea of the Poconos. I was wondering what happened to the other groups that were considering 2014? Have any of them stepped up yet? There seems to be a push for MASSC doing 2014, either that or MASSC is the most vocal, but I know others were discussing hosting also.

[ihawk95]

No idea. MKC has been quiet other than a post from one of their members saying they would like to see the NE.

The other one that has come up is Arkansas/Missouri. They've been quiet too.  Other than that, I've only seen suggestions.

[solli]

Diana, thanks for correcting the numbers - I winged it. Anyway, everyone has their reasons for wanting a particular locale - it might be free lodging and close proximity for you, Shiny, it's great twisties and beautiful countryside for others, or it's the fun attractions for the kids they plan on being and bringing. Nobody has mentioned food. Isn't that odd? It's what I thought about at Asheville.  Tupelo Honey was great. 

[Sly Bob]

Great restaurants can be found in most places but not great roads. 2013 is too far from home but if 2014 is closer to home I'm so going that year. There are some great roads in the north east around the mountains that run through there.

[Treeman]

Great restaurants can be found in most places but not great roads. 2013 is too far from home but if 2014 is closer to home I'm so going that year. There are some great roads in the north east around the mountains that run through there.

SB, I am not sure which suggestion you are referring to about not having great roads.....

[Sly Bob]

That wasn't my intention Bob as I don't know the areas all that well. I do know though that the areas around the mountains in the NE have great roads. I suppose there has to be other activities to do in the areas though. Those local to those areas would have a better idea what those would be.

[Critterman]

as much as anyone of you might like to think you can,  you are not going to change anyone's mind, especially about this subject, please understand you are only 

You want to be productive?  Instead of saying 14 people talked about this and 72 people about that do something like this:

The following discussion  'yada-yada-yada' is taking place, if you have any input please post it and I will forward it on.  Otherwis we will continue to see  in these conversation.


Just saying.........your milage may vary.

[solli]

Great restaurants can be found in most places but not great roads. 2013 is too far from home but if 2014 is closer to home I'm so going that year. There are some great roads in the north east around the mountains that run through there.

We are looking at all of them. If we host it, which seems probable, I'm glad you'll attend.  Treeman, if this is THE Treeman who led the cavalry up the French Cruise Twisties, (I'm a noob at KP) you mentioned that the roads around Harrisburg weren't spirited enough. It's why we changed locations!! 

[solli]

Just FYI because it has already been misrepresented

IE i was in the 2014 planning group until i removed myself today. This is just because someone added all the kappa friends they could find to make it look like a huge number.

So basically I could start a group called "GJ's magical donkey show attendees" add 600 people, and the group would have 600 members until they removed themselves from it

That's true, but I don't believe that someone added their friends to make it appear that there is a large amount of support for the planning or  input.

Adding people to the group gives the added member the opportunity to read the posts and make a comment. They can ignore it or remove themselves from the page as you chose to do. It's no biggie. Just a head's up that something is going on.

[SHiNY]

Anyway, everyone has their reasons for wanting a particular locale - it might be free lodging and close proximity for you, Shiny, it's great twisties and beautiful countryside for others, or it's the fun attractions for the kids they plan on being and bringing.

Actually that's exactly what I was thinking about. I'd like to give as much assistance as I can and by holding it in the Poconos it would allow me and a handful of other MASSC members (that would make great road captains/sweeps) the opportunity to run the roads at our convenience, hopefully giving us the opportunity to find the best roads/routes possible. Holding it further away limits that availability, although I know there are several non-MASSC people that are willing to step up and help.

[Sly Bob]

Certainly looks like there would be lots to do in the Poconos.

http://www.800poconos.com/

[solli]

I get it Shiny. The thing about a National is that ya have to look at all the best roads and attractions everywhere. Our first National was in Missouri and the only thing going for it was the I-70 raceway and the fact that it was the first time any of us ever met each other!

The next one was in Nashville - again, people (like me) flew in, rented a car and did leg work. Aspenrose made many trips there from WI to scout roads and she also drove in to CO to handle the Rocky Mountain Peak2Peak for John & Carol in 2009. Ripple flew into Austin from Florida for the 2011. Can't remember what went on for 2010 but a National is about a larger group experience rather than focusing on a smaller group who share mutual interests.  Regionals are good for that, and makes for a lot of fun. I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters now so I should probably stop.

There are groups who have expressed interest in the NY region. I would hope that you, Diane, Jason, and Spag would assist in any way possible if the vote went there. It's not as convenient as PA but the roads are tried and true fabulous, routed by the New England Motorcycle Riders Club. It also offers a different type of attraction.

As far as scouting roads in PA for the Poconos goes, I hope you realize that I'll be checking them out also. It's why I asked for your contact number and email addy.