Author Topic: Intercooler (Read 41553 times)

snaponbob · « **Reply #50 on:** July 12, 2012, 03:32:52 PM »

Fine. Whatever you like. But --

13.1 AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS
If a modification is not specifically authorized in this or previous sections of these Rules, it is not allowed.

I can provide more, but some just don't care. And it's a free country, isn't it?

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #51 on:** July 12, 2012, 03:40:27 PM »

Elff it was VonBushing that always had to get the last word in wasn't it?

elff · « **Reply #52 on:** July 12, 2012, 03:47:42 PM »

It would seem so.

13.1 Rules out 100% of the cars in Solo
I guess AutoX is officially over.

tazz · « **Reply #53 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:21:02 PM »

Ellf
Why are you

on this?
I'm not sure how long Bob has been racing in SCCA but I would think he would know what he is talking about in this situation since he competes in the Solo SCCA.
I decided to run by the Topeka SCCA office and I had a chance to talk with Brian Harmer about the rule in question and he stated just as Bob has stated that "No modifications are Allowed to the shroud whatsoever"NONE" if it doest fit you cannot alter any part,piece, panel, bumper, cover or anything else even with a heat gun to make it fit PERIOD end of discussion NOT ALLOWED.
Brain did however mention that rules can differ from Region to Region and I think he mentioned there are 115 Regions total but I could be wrong on that Number and it was possible that rules from one Region might allow modification of the shroud by heat gun. He said that once in the Nationals they use one set of rules and that everyone must abide by those rules and the rules the way they are written only state what can be done. If the rule does not state specifically that it CAN BE DONE then YOU CANNOT DO IT PERIOD IT THE RULES ARE NOT UP FOR INTERPRETATION.
I also asked the question what would happen if a racer was caught not abiding by the rules and if they could be disqualified for that race or for a Number of races even the Season and his reply was YES. Though that was up to the board on how many races which also depends what rule or rules were broken as to what actions they would take against the racer.
I think I got everything right in the short time I had to talk with Brian.

snaponbob · « **Reply #54 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:45:13 PM »

Tazz has it right. ALL SCCA Regions have the right, option, and authority to adjust the rule set as they wish EXCEPT for safety issues as well as NO variations for Junior Carts. At Divisionals, Tours, Pro Solos, and Nats, the rule book is the rule book. And now, someone will happily suggest I stuff the rule book up an orifice.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #55 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:53:37 PM »

Tazz.

Quote

No modifications are Allowed to the shroud whatsoever"NONE" if it doest fit you cannot alter any part,piece, panel, bumper, cover or anything else even with a heat gun to make it fit PERIOD end of discussion NOT ALLOWED.

The rule as Bob posted does not support the above statement.
A structural piece and that is on the rule as posted by Bob, is not what the foam piece represents. So if your statement above is what they(SCCA) actually means, then the rule should be change to include that wording, otherwise legaly as Bob says, cannot be enforce based on the wording of the rule as posted.

elff · « **Reply #56 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:10:46 PM »

Tazz

No where does it say shroud.
I have raced plenty in solo scca as well and as such I agree with LV 100%

tazz · « **Reply #57 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:41:03 PM »

You guys are missing the point.
Omission of a part does not mean you can it actually means the opposite that you cannot.
It does not matter if it doesn't say shroud that's the point just because it does not say you can't doesn't mean you can.
I'm not hear to say that I believe the rules make sense because I don't think they do I'm just relaying the message giving to me by the SCCA office and back up what BOB has been saying all along if you want to discuss with them in depth then be my guest 1-785-357-7222 or 1-800-770-2055 or here http://www.scca.com/contact/ page down to Rally/Solo and email Howard or Brian to discuss.

tazz · « **Reply #58 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:44:49 PM »

Ellf & LV
I CHALLANGE EACH OF YOU to give them a call and ask them for youself so that you can understand what BOB is trying to get across.
Report back on Friday after you talk with either of them I'll be waiting to see a post on your conversations.

elff · « **Reply #59 on:** July 12, 2012, 07:41:07 PM »

We already addressed that

Quote from: elff on July 11, 2012, 10:44:44 PM

Why run it by them?

The way it is written allows it. Let it become an issue if it becomes any issue and then you have a great argument to make it written in a way to favor you

Quote from: elff on July 11, 2012, 11:10:07 PM

They floated like rocks because the SCCA had not thought about making it illegal until you put that thought in their head.

Your jumping in late in the game and putting this into more of a loop than it is already in.

"Hey, I think this isn't Legal what do you think?"
"O hey, we had not thought about that before, and now that you put it that way, we are going to make it Illegal."

Also, if I called I would ask the question as such.

"I want to install an aftermarket intercooler. I am not going to cut or alter any Body
panels, fascias, or structural members."
Is there any issues with this?"

And use the current wording to my advantage and I would be true to my word and IMHO not be cheating due to the fact that

I would not cut or alter any Body panels, fascias, or structural members.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #60 on:** July 12, 2012, 08:23:43 PM »

It's the don't rat yourself out strategy.

tazz · « **Reply #61 on:** July 12, 2012, 08:26:13 PM »

Well there you have it then why even argue about it? My thinking is just to argue?
You know it's not legal under the rules but in your mind you still think it is legal?
All I'm stating is that if you want to distort the rules so that they fit what you think they should be fine but that's on you but are you really going to give advice to a person that's it fine to do so when you don't have to face the ramifications of those actions? Now if you were racing in the Solo SCCA in this Region and you believe you are right then go ahead and if and when you get caught is it really worth possibly giving up all the races for that season and ruining your name if you were any good? I guess if you were a shitty racer you would not care if they disqualified you for cheating. For the Honest people that are good racers it is a big deal there names and reputations follow them so it keeps them working within the rules or if they feel strongly enough about it then they fight to change the rules.
While most of us probably disagree with the wording of rule 15.10.C.3 "I know I do" but it's not up to ME You or any of us so why waste time and energy saying it should be when we can't change the outcome?
That's all I'm going to say on this topic.

elff · « **Reply #62 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:15:15 PM »

Um no.
We believe it is legal. We would not be changing any of the 3 items stated in the rule. You and BOb are the ones who are arguing the other way and because we disagree, you are attempting the label it as cheating which is b.s.
It's not distorting the rules, it's taking them for how they are written.
That's not distortion.

As far as ruining your name, that is also on the ridiculous side.

There are 2 underlying things.
1. The 3 items stated in the rule are 100% being followed
2. The slight clearance, that is ending up being a moot point due to a slightly different install method,
PROVIDES NO COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE to someone running a different intercooler with a slightly different mounting method.
And won't be the make or break of a win or loss which is the whole purpose of these rules

Critterman · « **Reply #63 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:43:28 PM »

Quote from: snaponbob on July 12, 2012, 05:45:13 PM

Tazz has it right. ALL SCCA Regions have the right, option, and authority to adjust the rule set as they wish EXCEPT for safety issues as well as NO variations for Junior Carts. At Divisionals, Tours, Pro Solos, and Nats, the rule book is the rule book. And now, someone will happily suggest I stuff the rule book up an orifice.

As requested Bob stuff the rule book up and orifice!

now back to your regularly scheduled argument.

snaponbob · « **Reply #64 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:49:13 PM »

Hey Tazz. Told ya.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #65 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:05:58 PM »

Hey Critter even when SOB gets what he ask for he's upset!

You just can't please some people.

snaponbob · « **Reply #66 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:12:24 PM »

Cute.

elff · « **Reply #67 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:45:03 PM »

miller11386 · « **Reply #68 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:17:52 PM »

cdflint · « **Reply #69 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:17:38 AM »

Alrighty then,

Bill please pm me your instructions. I'm pretty sure I'm not stock.

Bill Hahn Jr · « **Reply #70 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:17:27 AM »

Quote from: cdflint on July 13, 2012, 12:17:38 AM

Alrighty then,

Bill please pm me your instructions. I'm pretty sure I'm not stock.

You bet. PM sent, and thanks!

Critterman · « **Reply #71 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:36:12 AM »

Some of the comments here got me thinking which is always dangerous. WHAT IF:

Racer A races under group Z - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q
Racer B races under group X - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q
Racer C races under group Q - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q

Group Q rules does not address the differences that are legal in Z and X, so are racer A and B hosed? Do they have to change their cars?

Hope that makes sense.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #72 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:02:11 AM »

Could we ask RacerX or is he in a different group?

Bill Hahn Jr · « **Reply #73 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:06:25 PM »

Quote from: Sol Asylum on July 13, 2012, 11:02:11 AM

Could we ask RacerX or is he in a different group?

He's a tad secretive, but it's a little known fact that he pours out his soul to Spritle. Gain the kid's confidence and you're IN!

elff · « **Reply #74 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:27:45 PM »

Quote from: Critterman on July 13, 2012, 10:36:12 AM

Some of the comments here got me thinking which is always dangerous. WHAT IF:

Racer A races under group Z - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q
Racer B races under group X - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q
Racer C races under group Q - he is fully legal under their regulations, does well and goes to nationals in group Q

Group Q rules does not address the differences that are legal in Z and X, so are racer A and B hosed? Do they have to change their cars?

Hope that makes sense.

Since SOLO is so screwed up, and have section 13.1 which effective Rules out 100% of the cars in Solo at the discretion of whoever has the power that day,
That is a distinct possibility.

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Author Topic: Intercooler (Read 41553 times)