Topic: Agggh! How much coolant in an LNF??

[TomatoSoup]

Although my car has less than 16000 miles, it is just about 6 years old, so I figured I'd better be changing the coolant.  So this morning I jacked it up, unscrewed the radiator cock and drained her.  It was taking quite a while, so I rigged up a pressurizing device using a rubber door protector-stop and pressurized the fill tank via the filler neck (holding my finger over the overflow tube) and blew out the coolant until just air was coming out the drain. I did this several times, and stopped between to let all the coolant settle back and drain out.

OK, so the problem is, the manual says the engine takes 9.5 quarts, but I only got just over a gallon out of it, maybe 4.5 quarts total.  Strike one.  So I refilled with distilled water to flush out remaining coolant, and got about the same amount back in -  this included pushing the fluid in with my pressure device, as well as a solid burping with my Harbor Freight hand pump, vacuuming from the return tube.

I ran the car up to temp to see if the overflow level went down.  It didn't.  Plus I couldn't get the temp above 195 degrees, even revving it over 2500 rpm for long periods  So pretty sure there's no air there.

So what gives?  Is it 4.5 quarts of coolant in there, or 9.5?  If the latter, where's it held up?  Anyone who's drained their coolant for whatever reason, how much did you need to refill?

I don't want to just change half the coolant, I want it all done!  Help!

[DaveOC]

Heater core?

[Gentleman Jack]

I'd check the trunk.


9.5 liters?

[1LILNDN]

TS  maybe they wrote the manual while still looking at a V6 or V8 .LOL  I don't know haven't done mine yet so it will be nice to know . I think Sly Bob has done his .

[SolNut]

There is more coolant in there!  Did you R&R the water pump drain?  I have read that more drains there. 

I did mine just like you have done and had the exact same results  , Next time I will try the WP drain bolt and see if it changes the amount.

I am contemplating, just R&R a gallon every 6 months to keep fresh stuff in there.

Steve

[TomatoSoup]

No, I didn't do the WP drain bolt.  I had figured there could only be an extra pint or so there at most.  But I'm going out now to drain the car again.  Guess I'll do the pump as well and see.

I'd check the trunk.


9.5 liters?

From the Capacities table in the User Manual:

Cooling System
2.0L Engine Automatic 9.2 qt 8.7 L
2.0L Engine Manual 9.5 qt 9.0 L

[SolNut]

Torque on the WP bolt is 16 lb ft 

[TomatoSoup]

Torque on the WP bolt is 16 lb ft 

Yeah, thanks.  Just tell me how the heck I get a torque wrench on that sucker?  I can't even get in there to feel or find the effing SIZE of the head!

(I'm in doing a search on that right now.)

[SolNut]

When in doubt, try 10mm 

Or use the correct one 13 MM! 

[TomatoSoup]

OK, well, for those playing at home, the water pump drain plug is a 13mm head bolt.  It's on the bottom of the water pump and points directly down toward the ground (unlike the diagram in the manual, which shows it pointing backward on the rear of the WP).  It's reachable with a socket and long extension from under the car, but you need a wobble or universal joint (because it's a kappa, and so nothing is easy).

When you removed it, sure enough, another HUGE spray of fluid comes out.  All in your eyes and teeth and everywhere under the car, since there's no direct path, it sprays all over the rails and suspension and it's just a MESS. 
Lay down plenty of paper     

Difficult to tell how much more fluid there is since most is all over the floor of my garage, but I'm guessing by the mess that it's the missing gallon.  Now I have to go try and get the plug back in and fill 'er up agin.  Sigh.

Here's a photo of the plug (arrowed).  Don't be fooled that it looks so easy to get at, this was taken by sheer luck, with my cellphone shove blindly up over the frame rail:

[attach=1]

[elff]

Wow

What a Pita

At least you know you know have got it done correctly.
Good job sticking with it. 

[SolNut]

Thanks, I added a note on Pg 9-567 on my book to show the correct socket size!!

I can't find it, but I seem to remember that that bolt needs some sealant on it upon replacement!  Mr. Plumber to the rescue????

[LatinVenom]

Great Job TS, but that is why I had it done using a professional flush machine.

[TomatoSoup]

Thanks, I added a note on Pg 9-567 on my book to show the correct socket size!!

I can't find it, but I seem to remember that that bolt needs some sealant on it upon replacement!  Mr. Plumber to the rescue????

Yeah, I forgot to say it had some white rubber-like sealant on it.  I smeared on some plumber's pipe seal (teflon-loaded) before I put it back in.

[Gentleman Jack]

Nice job TS.  I might buy your car one of these days.  You take really good care of it.

[2kwk4u]

Seems maybe that drained not only the water pump, but perhaps all of the coolant from the water jackets in the engine block.  I remember on my Grand Prix(s - I had two) that to thoroughly drain the system for a flush, I had to remove the knock sensors from each cylinder bank.  Seems like I collected almost as much fluid from the block as I did from the radiator on those cars, too.

[Gentleman Jack]

TS-

Just start drilling holes in the block. Stuff will come out. 

[SolNut]

How much on the refill this time? 

[TomatoSoup]

Almost 8 quarts.  Not sure if I got all the air out though.  Last night I had overheating issues (got up to 215 on the test drive before I shut her off).  So today I've tried the heater core refill idea posted by Dave.  There was definitely air in the heater core when I took the hose off.  This time I got to 206 on the drive.  Still high, but I used to get that before too, so maybe just my particular car.  We'll see how it goes.

[Gadget]

Sorry I didn't see this earlier TS as I just replaced my water pump and also took a shower from the drain bolt removal. I had drained my coolant (radiator) before removing the WP drain and was surprised by the amount of fluid (about the same as the radiator) that came out out.

I too had overheating after refilling/burping/hand jobbing the damn thing.
I tried all the recommended tricks, including jackining up the drivers side, filling the radiator through its own hose, etc.

I finally parked her nose down on a slope and was able to get the last of the bubbles out and temps returned to normal....

Never had a car that was so difficult to change the coolany on before...

[cbr6]

has anyone tried removing the water pump bolt while the cap is on the expansion tank? think finger on straw in a glass of water. Wondering if that would make it more controllable to drain with less mess???

[1LILNDN]

sounds about right ,if nothing is opened you have a vacuum and have a chance to put a container there before you get your Bath .

[TomatoSoup]

has anyone tried removing the water pump bolt while the cap is on the expansion tank? think finger on straw in a glass of water. Wondering if that would make it more controllable to drain with less mess???

You should try it and let us know!  (Remember to not have the radiator drain open either )

[The Carrier]

Wow, nice work TS.  Now I know to take mine to a shop to have the coolant changed!  Either that, or send the wife away with the kids for three days while I curse my lungs out...