Topic: Multiple Tune control

[roxer]

I have went through many different posts concerning managing multiple tunes and saw some interesting ways folks controlled or switched between tunes. Everything from a simple toggle switch to using pre-existing controls on the car (like cruse control button).

I bought DDM's tune during the sale and wondered in this case if the same can be done? I will be installing the AEM Methanol Injection kit during the same time he performs the tune. My concern with meth is when it runs dry in the tank, so a switch to a "no meth" tune would be best practice here.

I was considering having the tune controlled by the ETC button.  Or can I buy a controller to turn it on an off from the cockpit?  What are my options considering I will be using DDMWork's tune?

[Jim]

I use HP Tuners and keep a small laptop in the car in case I need to switch my tune for some reason. I've been running meth for about a year now and have never let it run dry. I use the windshield reservoir for my tank so it's easy enough to check and I typically top it off about every 2 weeks. I keep a 55 gallon drum of methanol next to my 55 gallon drum of ethanol E85. Keep an eye on the meth when you start using it so you'll know how much you typically consume.

I don't know of any tune that is switchable except for the Trifecta tune which I would recommend against but it's easy enough to switch tunes with the laptop (takes about a minute) and it's not like you'd wand to switch them on the fly anyways.

[elff]

And,
If you wire the Failsafe properly, if the meth fails, it will prevent the car from boosting and make the car run as if it is a naturally aspirated 2Liter.
That will prevent you from putting the engine into a danger zone. 

Trifecta is the only tuner that can flip tunes, but the problem with that is you have zero visibility to some of the stuff he does.
I personally do not like that.

[roxer]

I use HP Tuners and keep a small laptop in the car in case I need to switch my tune for some reason. I've been running meth for about a year now and have never let it run dry. I use the windshield reservoir for my tank so it's easy enough to check and I typically top it off about every 2 weeks. I keep a 55 gallon drum of methanol next to my 55 gallon drum of ethanol E85. Keep an eye on the meth when you start using it so you'll know how much you typically consume.

I'm more concerned about a trip to the mountains and such - not much room for wife, luggage and a jug or two of methanol. Dave says he tunes for the -20 stuff (~30% methanol), but of course they don't sell that when its 90 degrees outside. Living in an apartment doesn't allow me to have a drum of methanol in the garage - sometime in the future, but not now. How long can I keep premixed methanol before it degrades?

So I can switch between my GMPP tune and Dave's tune?  Does that require me to buy the full HPTuners suite (~$600)?

And, If you wire the Failsafe properly, if the meth fails, it will prevent the car from boosting and make the car run as if it is a naturally aspirated 2Liter. That will prevent you from putting the engine into a danger zone. 

Trifecta is the only tuner that can flip tunes, but the problem with that is you have zero visibility to some of the stuff he does.
I personally do not like that.

Is the failsafe part of the AEM kit or do I have to buy something else to get that functionality? I'm wondering if I could just buy the WR-3 kit and the cost ends up being the same.

If you have the AEM kit - where did you mount the controller?

[Jim]

I'm using methanol that is a couple years old and will be a couple years older before I use it all up. The farthest I typically take the car is 75 miles away to the mountains. 150 miles round trip plus around 50 while we're there leaves plenty of fuel in the tank and I doubt that I end up using more than a cup of methanol. If I was racing in the mountains that would be a different story.

I'm running the WR3 kit on e47 at 28psi and 24* timing with the meth starting to spray at 15psi. Needless to say it really screams at WOT....

To change tunes you'll need a laptop and HP Tuners. I can make you a great deal on the HP Tuners hardware if you're  interested.

[elff]

Most meth kits have a failsafe.  AEM has an empty warning on the bottle in the base kit and you can add a Flow meter or an AFR meter that can help protect you.
My controller is mounted under the hood in an area that can't be hit by water. 

[roxer]

Most meth kits have a failsafe.  AEM has an empty warning on the bottle in the base kit and you can add a Flow meter or an AFR meter that can help protect you.
My controller is mounted under the hood in an area that can't be hit by water.

Had a conversation with Dave from DDM yesterday (email) and his suggestion was to go with the AEM kit and the AEM failsafe device. He said the failsafe device can be programmed to drop turbo output to 5-6 psi and keep the engine safe until fluid is restored. Either that or use HP Tuners to go back and forth with a different tune. Either way, this is becoming an expensive mod. This will require:

AEM 30-3300, 30-3302 or 30-3352 Injection kit
AEM 30-3020 Failsafe Device
DDM A-Pillar Pod (to hold the gauge)
LOTS of Dave's time (he should love that one  )

And might as well install:
AEM 30-5132 Boost Gauge
AEM decal somewhere on the car... 

Elff, is this what you did?  Or did he do some type of wiring mod on your car?  I do see the kit controller comes with a failsafe ground wire to put it in limp mode.

[Jim]

Don't know what you're paying for all of the AEM goodies and failsafes and gauges but it sounds like it is getting expensive. AEM is definitely a nice product though.

My Devils Own kit cost ~$250 without a tank. Using the windshield washer reservoir as a tank seemed like the most practical solution to me. When I was tuning the car, I would check the reservoir every day to see how much juice it was consuming. I originally had the system set to start spraying at 10psi and finally tuned it to 15psi after roughly 50 different pulls throughout 2 to 3 weeks time of logging and adjusting tunes.

At 15psi, I was able to log 4 pulls from 40-115 (average of 7.5 seconds) every day of the work week and on Friday afternoon, I would refill the reservoir. 20 long pulls at WOT was using just about 1/2 gallon of juice and now that I have the car dialed in, I can go for weeks without filling. I'm using a 7gph nozzle.

I've been running meth/alki/water injection kits on my cars for around 15 years so checking the reservoir has become second nature to me which is why I decided against the added expense of the failsafe setups.

[elff]

The only problem with that, is you will not know if you have a pump failure. 
This is why I like the Flow Monitoring.

I have a hybrid setup with AEM and Devils Own. 
I prefer the nozzles and check valves of Devils Own especially since they are separate. 

[Jim]

Good point elff. After I had everything tuned well on 91 ocatane plus meth, I gradually made the switch to e47. I started with e20 and moved my way up over a few months period.

On 91 octane fuel, the methanol kit let me add ~2psi of boost and 2 degrees of timing. As I made my way up the "e" ladder, I noticed that the methanol doesn't really add as much benefit as it did when I was running 91 fuel - most likely because the e-blended fuel burns much cooler.

I have run a number of logs with the methanol kit disabled and still saw no KR on the logs with the same boost pressure and timing as I had with it enabled so for me the value of the kit comes from keeping the valves cleaner than they would be without it. Since I've run a kit on every turbo car that I've owned for the past 15 years, it only makes sense for me to keep it on this one. Plus I like the smell of the exhaust after a hard run....

I could do a bit more tuning and gain a few hp with the kit disabled but it runs so well now that I don't see a need to even think about messing with it as it outruns just about everything on the road as it is. (all roads are in Mexico of course)

[Jim]

elff,

Are you running the AEM 30-3020 failsafe setup? Looks like a nice setup.

[roxer]

elff,

Are you running the AEM 30-3020 failsafe setup? Looks like a nice setup.

That's a good question! I wasn't aware you could mix/match the two. Also, what nozzle are you using Elff?  Jim says he is on a 7gph.

[elff]

Yes, that is the Failsafe I am running.

The answer for my nozzle is not cut and dry as I am using the AEM pump.  Jim is using a Devils Own Pump.  As such, I am using a slightly smaller nozzle than Jim.
If I switched over to the Devils Own Pump I might bump up. 
I exchanged numerous emails with a Devils Own Tech and after he got the specs on my AEM pump he suggest a D04/
The size of the nozzle can vary a little as long as you tune the car properly for it.  It's all about maximizing the performance while avoiding Knock

[roxer]

Is the Devils own pump a stronger output? I'm not sure one is better than the other quality wise. I haven't bought the kit yet and if the failsafe will work with either, then I can change my purchase decision.

[elff]

both are quality pumps.
I was able to get a used AEM kit with the Failsafe for a killer price.  If not, for that, I would have gone with the Devil's own kit.

[roxer]

I'm using methanol that is a couple years old and will be a couple years older before I use it all up. The farthest I typically take the car is 75 miles away to the mountains. 150 miles round trip plus around 50 while we're there leaves plenty of fuel in the tank and I doubt that I end up using more than a cup of methanol. If I was racing in the mountains that would be a different story.

I'm running the WR3 kit on e47 at 28psi and 24* timing with the meth starting to spray at 15psi. Needless to say it really screams at WOT....

To change tunes you'll need a laptop and HP Tuners. I can make you a great deal on the HP Tuners hardware if you're  interested.

PM me with the details of the HP tuner deal you have.

[Jim]

I jumped the gun and put it on ebay....

[POS VETT]

Roxer - is E85 non-existent or difficult to find in your area?

[roxer]

Roxer - is E85 non-existent or difficult to find in your area?

Non-existent to say the least. I found only one speed shop that sells methanol in 5gal and 55gal that's anywhere close to me by 30+ miles. Building muscle and speed racer cars is not the norm here like it is back home in Tenn. Mostly upper crust folks who like their bmws and mercedes.

[roxer]

So I have to buy the meth system and I found a deal on the devilsown that $30 cheaper than the AEM kit - neither have the container.

Question is, will the AEM fail safe work with the devilsown kit?

I'll pay the $30 if the two integrate better. If there's no difference, I'd rather use the money elsewhere.