Topic: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder

[wspohn]

Ryan - a very sensible motivation (the only valid reason to want a different set of ratios - the 6th speed just happens to come along with it).

I wonder if there are any other alternatives? 

[ryansalazan]

I'm not sure. I think if the ddm kit could bolt up a lets say tr6060 or a maybe more common t56 then it would be fine. However maybe the transmission housing not wanting to cooperate may be one of the issues.

[wspohn]

BTW, most people seem to want wide ratio transmission ratios - I am about the only one that wants close ratio gears.

This page makes interesting reading.

http://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

[elff]

I'm not sure. I think if the ddm kit could bolt up a lets say tr6060 or a maybe more common t56 then it would be fine. However maybe the transmission housing not wanting to cooperate may be one of the issues.

From what I understand the TR6060 has an attached bell housing which makes adapting it to a different engine difficult.  On the T56, the bell housing can be removed and one manufactured that will still fit the T56, but bolts up properly to the LNF.

BTW, most people seem to want wide ratio transmission ratios - I am about the only one that wants close ratio gears.

This page makes interesting reading.

http://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

Interesting read. 

It's funny, I hated the 6 speed in the Mini Coopers.  It seems like you have to shift all the time.  It was probably setup that way to aid with the lower HP.  Meanwhile the 6 speed in the Gen Coupe is dead on.  I actually like 2-4 in the Kappa although stretching them out a little bit would help those who do 1/4 mile runs.  You have to shift right around 100mph.

[ryansalazan]

BTW, most people seem to want wide ratio transmission ratios - I am about the only one that wants close ratio gears.

This page makes interesting reading.

http://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

Definitely a good article! Ya I use to have a cobalt ss turbo and LOVED the gears in those cars! Minus the fact that they would break with alot of power, but 3rd gear at a 7000rpm redline would get you right around 112mph ish? I loved that! In the sky It barely will get 93 ish. I 1st through 3rd was lengthened slightly it would be perfect as I honestly prefer 5 speed over 6 anyways. But with some slightly longer gears down low it would be awesome. I know it wouldnt work very well though if you had a stock car. I would probably slow it down more, which is why I understand the short gearing for stock power.

[ryansalazan]

From what I understand the TR6060 has an attached bell housing which makes adapting it to a different engine difficult.  On the T56, the bell housing can be removed and one manufactured that will still fit the T56, but bolts up properly to the LNF.

Interesting read. 

It's funny, I hated the 6 speed in the Mini Coopers.  It seems like you have to shift all the time.  It was probably setup that way to aid with the lower HP.  Meanwhile the 6 speed in the Gen Coupe is dead on.  I actually like 2-4 in the Kappa although stretching them out a little bit would help those who do 1/4 mile runs.  You have to shift right around 100mph.

Hmm Maybe a possible fix for a kit would be to manufacture a tail housing?

[wspohn]

Definitely a good article! Ya I use to have a cobalt ss turbo and LOVED the gears in those cars! Minus the fact that they would break with alot of power, but 3rd gear at a 7000rpm redline would get you right around 112mph ish? I loved that! In the sky It barely will get 93 ish. I 1st through 3rd was lengthened slightly it would be perfect as I honestly prefer 5 speed over 6 anyways.

Depends on what sort of driving or competition you do.

I road race (on a track, not the actual road). My super close ratio gearbox gives me ratios of

0.8   1.00   1.267   1.619   2.448   

1st is a non synchro gear, so a throw away - a starting gear only, but the splits between the other gears result in 1200-1500 differences - a lot of fun and makes it easy to keep my engine between 5,000 and 7800 where it produces the most power.

For comparison, the Aisin ratios are:

0.073   1.00  1.51   2.26  3.75

[ryansalazan]

Depends on what sort of driving or competition you do.

I road race (on a track, not the actual road). My super close ratio gearbox gives me ratios of

0.8   1.00   1.267   1.619   2.448   

1st is a non synchro gear, so a throw away - a starting gear only, but the splits between the other gears result in 1200-1500 differences - a lot of fun and makes it easy to keep my engine between 5,000 and 7800 where it produces the most power.

For comparison, the Aisin ratios are:

0.073   1.00  1.51   2.26  3.75

If you dont mind me asking, how did you change your gears?

[elff]

I believe that is not in a kappa

[wspohn]

This is in an old MG and in that case the manufacturer had the foresight to offer a special gear set - they even made straight cut sets only for competition.

There are a couple of other sets available for the AR5 but neither is better as they both from trucks.

I wonder if the Getrag 233 used in the last generation Toyota Supras would fit.  Their ratios were:

First gear: 3.827:1
Second gear: 2.360:1
Third gear: 1.685:1
Fourth gear: 1.312:1
Fifth gear: 1:1
Sixth gear: 0.793:1

They took the step of making 5th gear 1:1 instead of 4th gear so they could move the lower gears closer together, and added the 6th as a pure OD ratio.  They are V series. The W series trans used earlier had the same bolt pattern as the AR5 - not sure about the later V series, but you might want to look at it.

[ryansalazan]

Ya we have the best ones made. I have seen a kit to beef up the ar5 transmission. like billet forks better synchros and what not and not a bad price either. But it doesnt change the gearing at all.

[cbr6]

 I have always felt my GXP could use a taller 1st gear, really don't have a lot of complaints about the rest of the box.

[elff]

I agree, but having the ability to hold 3rd until 110mph would also be nice

[Gentleman Jack]

I agree, but having the ability to hold 3rd until 110mph would also be nice

Why not 111?

[elff]

Too many 1s in a row.  Bad things can occur if you are still in third.

[wspohn]

I agree, but having the ability to hold 3rd until 110mph would also be nice

Yeah I can see how handy that would be in every day driving.   

[elff]

It would be extremely handy whenever I pass a mustang and corvette

But once again, just because you dont use it all the time, does not mean it wouldnt be nice to have for those times you can

If we followed your philosophy, there is no point in having vehicles that can go over 80mph

[Critterman]

WAIT!  Our cars can go over 80?

[Gentleman Jack]

WAIT!  Our cars can go over 80?

Sideways!

[Gentleman Jack]

WAIT!  Our cars can go over 80?

Sideways!

[Sol Asylum]

Do you ever have that feeling of deja vu?

[wspohn]

Exactly what speed you have to shift at is usually academic - as long as the 'splits' are suitable for maintaining constant acceleration, you are good.

There are some cases in racing, though, where you'd really like a gear to go a little higher to avoid a shift between corners.

In drag racing (correct me if I am wrong) I think it is sufficient to be topping out top gear at the end of the 1/4 mile - not that you'd want to use those sorts of diff ratio on the street.

[Sol Asylum]

In drag racing (correct me if I am wrong) I think it is sufficient to be topping out top gear at the end of the 1/4 mile - not that you'd want to use those sorts of diff ratio on the street.

The problem being when you top out and still have 200 ft to go.  And by most accounts with the Kappa your topping out 4 th so the time to shift to 5 th is almost equal to the time you loose staying in 4th which is why most want the taller gear.

One could also argue shorter gears would get you to 5th sooner and be able to use it more then you currently do.

[Gentleman Jack]

Shifting by hand is so 1920's.

[ryansalazan]

I agree, but having the ability to hold 3rd until 110mph would also be nice

THIS^^^^^ The cobalt SS did that and trust me man it was awesome! Huge advantage at the track too because you dont have to hit 4th unless your really making some power