Topic: Question on Spec Stage 3 Clutch

[MattM]

So I just got my Spec Stage 3 six puck clutch installed on a brand new stock dual mass flywheel on my 2007 Saturn Sky Redline.  I've put a little over 250 miles on the clutch and want to make sure everything was doing what it should so I took it on the highway and put it in fourth gear around 2500 rpms and floored it....  It was strange as for a second the rpms jumped up by about 500 rpms then the clutch caught and I started putting the power down. 

This question is for anyone who has a Spec clutch (preferably stage 3).  Did your clutch initially do this or does it still do this, and what is it?  I can tell you that the pedal engages the clutch very close to the beginning of the throw (exactly the opposite from the firewall).  I was always told that this clutch in this car would engage closer to the firewall.  Anyway, I guess my question is whether or not my clutch is already shot or does it just need more time to seat, or is it just a normal occurrence? 

Any help would be appreciated!

[Steelmesh]

I am running a Spec Stage 3 in my 2.4 LE5 Solstice.  I am running a spacer behind the slave cylinder because the recommendation is to run a spacer with an aftermarket clutch; however engagement does not occur until the end of clutch pedal travel.  http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/product_info.php/werksracing-kappa-clutch-slave-cylinder-spacer-p-1882

I assume the spacer is true regardless of the engine, I think it is related to the Aisin AR5.

See this post for my review of the clutch: http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f64/spec-stage-3-installed-2-4-le5-ar5-aluminum-flywheel-131369/

For the break in period I didn't beat on it.  At the time of the installation, I had a legit 330 wheel torque.  The clutch is rated for 495 ftlbs.  If your redline is stock, then you only have 260 ftlbs...so sounds like there is a problem with the installation.

[MattM]

Thanks for your reply.  I have the Trifecta tune so it's getting around 320 ft. lbs. of torque.

[Gentleman Jack]

hmmm.  There are a few folks here with spec3 clutch.  If they don't reply soon I'll see if I can track them down for you.

[Kelu]

I had Spec 3 Clutch with their flywheel on a mildly modified 2.0T engine, I didn't noticed a delay in catching through the gears, my engaging point was low, close to the floor/firewall.
I had some irritating engaging small aspects but only when driving from a stand still, on a bumper to bumper driving with a lot of start/stop then the clutch was a little bit annoying, similar to the sport/race clutches, it was throwing out the car a little bit in front on the initial bite.

[MattM]

I'm just hoping that the delay I was seeing is something that will go away as I continue to break it in.  I didn't even think a semi metallic 6 puck clutch like this could even slip to be honest.... 

I also adjusted the adjustable master cylinder I bought from Performance Autowerks and it did move the engagement down a little towards the firewall.  I think the mechanic just put the through all the way out for some reason.

[Steelmesh]

It was strange as for a second the rpms jumped up by about 500 rpms then the clutch caught and I started putting the power down.

Thinking outside the clutch box, was thinking about wheel spin...however in 4th gear 2,500 rpms seems hard to do unless you're running crap or worn stock width tires on an imperfect road surface and putting down your 320 wtrq.  Where is your peak torque on the LNF tune?

[elff]

I never had that with either aftermarket clutch I had.
My Spec3 engaged really low but other than that, always engaged instantly.

[MattM]

Thinking outside the clutch box, was thinking about wheel spin...however in 4th gear 2,500 rpms seems hard to do unless you're running crap or worn stock width tires on an imperfect road surface and putting down your 320 wtrq.  Where is your peak torque on the LNF tune?

It's around the 2200 rpm area or so....

[MattM]

Ok so...an update.  I know this is going to sound weird, but after driving in stop and go traffic for another 100 miles I feel like the clutch is starting to come around because I'm starting to get that hardcore familiar chatter when I take off from a dead stop..  I say that because I used to have a 6 puck semi metallic clutch in the past.  Before it wouldn't chatter per usual because I think it might have been slightly slipping.  It's possible that the flywheel or clutch had some grease on it or something and maybe now it's burning off or something, so I'm hoping that is the case.  I'll keep crossing my fingers!

[elff]

There is a break in period for clutches which accomplishes just about the same thing as when you bed in a new set of brake pads.
The recommendation is to drive in stop and go traffic for about 500 miles so that is probably why it is feeling better after you put that last 100 miles on.
Keep driving it the way you are for another couple hundred miles and that finish the break in.

[MattM]

I get it out once a day in stop and go traffic. 

I now have a check engine light for the clutch pedal position switch!  I must have screwed something up when I went to adjust the master cylinder.  It's a huge pain in the ass to even try to work up under the dash.  It's a 2007 the one thing I noticed was that it was a tad loose.  Does anyone have any experience on them?  Could it being a little loose be what's causeing the check engine light?  I check all connections and they seem to be pretty tight...

[Gentleman Jack]

What code is it giving?

[MattM]

Its the code for the clutch pedal position switch (B Circuit) I can't remember the actual code atm, but that's what it reads out to.

[Sol Asylum]

I think he wanted the actual number because that's how you research it and find what to look at and trouble shoot the problem.

[MattM]

Found it.  The code is p0833.

[MattM]

Is there something stupid causing this that would be easy to fix?

[Sol Asylum]

Sorry there are quite a few miles between me and the manuals I have to look this up at the moment.  Maybe someone else can help you out?

[MattM]

Anyone else have any information?

[Sol Asylum]

Picture is worth 1000 words so this should save me a lot of typing

[MattM]

Thank you so much for the help on this!  I have the code cleared and need to double check the code to see if it is still cleared.  If it isn't cleared could I possibly see 17-435 on replacing the clutch pedal position switch? 

[MattM]

Ok...so...update...

 I've been driving the car in stop and go traffic for another 200 miles or so. Up until yesterday I was still getting a bit of a chatter/judder when I put it in third or fourth at low rpms and floored it (i.e. revs would go up a little before catching). Well yesterday I put the car in third gear and brake boosted at 40mph (got it up to about 5psi or so) then floored it. It must have burnt whatever was left on the mating surfaces that was causing the chatter/jutter off because I got the familiar smell then after that the clutch caught every time! So I think I'm good with that. I also cleared the clutch position pedal switch error.

 On to my new issue. When I'm at WOT in higher rpms and I got to shift it's acting like I'm getting clutch drag. I'm going to do the test tonight to be sure but if it is in fact clutch drag should I readjust the master cylinder to come out a little more (giving it more throw) and then rebleed it? If that doesn't take care of it what else could be causing the clutch drag?

[Kelu]

Not sure what clutch drag means but I remember while I was doing drag races it would go very hard from 3rd to 4th if I was at wot and trying to shift fast. Also when down shifting from 5th to 4th would not allow easily to get in the gear. Not sure if my setup with also Spec flywheel would cause a different behavior.

[MattM]

Did you try to bleed the system more, and did that fix it?  Just wondering whay I can do.

[Kelu]

I tried several time to re-bleed the system, including using vacuum pumps or connecting the hose from intake manifold to create vacuum.
Almost unnoticeable improvement.