Topic: help me understand different tune options and results..

[1cerberus4u]

Cars 07/08 GXP 2.0's

I "think' the motors are stock in the current set up and I am interested in seeing what I can get for a bump in hp/tq to run these cars as track day cars. At this point, I am not looking to tear down motors as we are hoping to be reasonable in our quest for more power, so the question is what can we do to the outside (tune/pipes etc) and what can we expect for output.

I see several different tunes from DDM and Performance Auto Works, but for someone who is old school like me, there seems to be a lot of different options which all look to be the same, so I am hoping I can get some advice....

So overall,

So I see;

DDM has a kit with a cold air intake, charge tube and trifecta tune and it suggests 70-80hp at the wheel for jsut over a grand...

Then I see a "race" exhaust promising an additional 27hp....for an additional 650 smackeros (or the stree race exhaust same price and performance promise.

Of course this raises the question should there also be a hi flo cat, or remove the cat entirely? What happens to above?

Then do I need a stage 1, 2 or 3 Map sensor and what really is the difference?

performance Autoworks

Then of course PAW has the same charge tube and intake and cat (btw does any of this stuff really make more power as demonstrated on a real dyno and not a "seat of the pants" dyno?

Then there is the "Stage 2" (is there a 1 or 3?0 tune from PAW... is it different than DDM?

So globally, if I believe the ads, I can get about 100hp from these tunes if I run 91 or 93 octane.. bolt on and go?

Love to hear your thoughts on what works and does not.

I do continue to read that best case, these motors and trannys are only good to about 400hp at the wheel before engine strengthening is required... I don't want to go there yet.

So if these cars have 260hp stock what is the path to get to 375-400whp

Thanks!

[Gentleman Jack]

WOW!  This is going to be a fun read.  There are many options in addition to what you have listed.  Westers Tune (a site sponsor and a discount available thru the site), Trifecta and others.  I think you have explained your needs clearly (stock internals, stock turbo).  What gas do you have available?  And how many supporting mods do you want to entertain? (How much cash do you want to spend to get to where you want). 

I'll pop back in and add more, but I gotta go pee.

[Sol Asylum]

That's been a long pee, might want to see a doctor!

[1LILNDN]

When I was at our Show in Flagstaff,AZ I had   Dave Gilbert of "  Performance Auto Works " do a Tune on my 2008 GXP . He told me to have it retuned when I got back to Maryland . I is running so good I haven't done it YET . I have a solo Hi flow Cat , Magna flow 3 " exhaust a K& N Air  intake ,&  sensors . I pull 25PSI and hold it . everything inside the Motor  is Stock .








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[1cerberus4u]

Yes, I also posted on Solstice Forum as these cars are new to me, so I am not even sure which forum is best for what I am looking for....

That said, overall, not as much about money as time and effort (I have several cars and not as much time as I would like)

We plan to run these cars primarily for track day events and some cars and coffee.

So if I understand, IC pipe, high flow cat (or no cat at all???), solo exhaust (the race or the street race??), K&N intake, plus a good tune (Trifecta or Westers), if we do all this, what is a real expectation   220 stock to 330?  350?

I do have access to at least 91 octane and some times 93 - its a pump gas car and I don't want to have to lug around race fuel....

[Steelmesh]

For advanced engine specific topics (you have the LNF 2.0), Cobaltss.net is quite active. Cobalt tuners love modifying the ecotecs 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 engines.

This was posted on another forum by the user Rosscoe, so with the high flow cat and exhaust and a tune they made 276 whp / 316 wtq which is about 324 bhp (15% drivetrain loss).  I hear 400 bhp is the max limit for the stock 2.0 engine a lot, so that is about 340 whp:

Rosscoe says:
...I was looking to increase performance without breaking the bank. The first mod I did was the HFC and cat back exhaust from solo performance which was a big step up for sound and gave a small HP increase until the computer recalibrated itself . I was told GMPP tunes which I was unable to acquire through my GM dealer. I looked around and DDM seamed they had a nice tune with the power pack. I heard a lot of good things about Trifecta and was not disappointed. Fortunately I found a shop in my area that was able to accommodate. The carb connection in Kirkland was the only shop in the Seattle area that would deal with Pontiac. All the other tune shops were into mazda and foreign cars. I could not be happier with the end result and the great customer service I received there. Its even more fun to drive now. Its pulling 22 pounds of boost and additional 100ft pounds of torque.274 HP to the wheels. Its truly amazing what these cars will do. This car is definitely my mistress now...

[DeepBlueGXP]

I have a Westers tune, high flow cat and Solo Performance Mach exhaust.  (become a supporting member here to get the discount to buy the tune)

The CAI doesn't help much and the upgraded intercooler pipes are a visual add only, don't wast the money there.

My rear wheel HP went from 219 (stock) to 286 (reverse calc to about 340 at engine). 

[1cerberus4u]

OK, here are some pics of the 2 engine compartments and I do see a couple of sensors that have been spliced into the harness... any idea what these are?

OK, how do I post pics on this forum?  I press insert image and I get 

[Steelmesh]

OK, here are some pics of the 2 engine compartments and I do see a couple of sensors that have been spliced into the harness... any idea what these are?

OK, how do I post pics on this forum?  I press insert image and I get 

Free Image Hosting: catbox.moe, imgur.com, imgoat.com

[Kelu]

My experience on track days with this car: change the car or stay around 320-330 bhp (not whp)  

My problem: on a track with some power (about 360-400 hp at the flywheel) on a stock motor, I ran out of cooling of the pistons (mostly piston #1) and they shrank because of the heat.

Some said it was the tune, I would say no because before the 2 track days I did over 50 passes on a strip with no issues but because it had time to cool down after each run, if it was the tune it would rip the pistons while doing runs with 400 bhp tune and signs of detonation or lean mixture would be visible at the piston dome, spark plugs or valves.

If you need more info about my problem: http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,10609.0.html

[1cerberus4u]

Thanks for the input everyone.  I'll try to upload the pics this weekend...

Globally however, it seems as if the only way to make 400hp with reliability is to have a long block built....?

[1cerberus4u]

OK, I hope I'm uploading this correctly, but If I do, here are the pics of the engine and the sensors, which clearly do not look stock
https://imgur.com/P7xoSZx
https://imgur.com/edg8pO0
https://imgur.com/Bllf1Kz
https://imgur.com/oX93xni

[TomatoSoup]

Those are the GMPP tune 3-bar T/MAP sensors, replacing the stock 2.7bar ones.  Pretty ugly splice job, whoever did it.

So you have the GMPP tune at least.

[1cerberus4u]

Great, thanks!  So, what is the GMPP tune really all about and what are the next steps up for power?

[wspohn]

Great, thanks!  So, what is the GMPP tune really all about and what are the next steps up for power?

It was the only authorized GM package.  Fine as far as it went but not worth keeping after warranty ran out - there are several safe tunes available that offer quite a bit more.

[1cerberus4u]

Can you be more specific on the "other tunes" and why they are better than the GMPP one?

[DaveOC]

It was the only authorized GM package.  Fine as far as it went but not worth keeping after warranty ran out - there are several safe tunes available that offer quite a bit more.

As wspohn points out, the GMPP tune was the only one that had a GM warranty and also the only tune that didn't void the GM warranty on the car. Even if it was installed after the warranty on the car expired, if installed by a GM dealership, it had a 12 month warranty. All the other tunes make more power than the GMPP tune, but voided the warranty. That was why many chose it, even though it was more expensive that the competition, and didn't make as much power.



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[1cerberus4u]

OK, thanks, so roughly how much of a bump in HP and TQ did the GMPP tune give and then if one goes with a new tune and (highflow or cat-less down pipe) what will the numbers be?

[LatinVenom]

The GMPP tune is rated at 290 BHP and 340 torque. For your second question you need to talk to the different tuners, such as Trifecta, Werks, DDM and Westers (spelling) from Canada.