Topic: Oil Catch can

[kgschlosser]

I have been having issues getting my car through emissions. It keeps on failing. LOL
The car's ECM doesn't want to run it's internal I/M tests. NO DTC are set or even pending it just doesn't want  to run the tests. I am pretty sure this is because  I am at 8500 foot elevation. I brought a copy of the section of the shop manual that states the barometric pressure needs to be above 10.6 PSI in order for the tests to run and I brought the paperwork from the National Weather Service that shows what the barometric pressure is at 8500 foot elevation. It's riding that 10.6 PSI limit, then once you factor in humidity it would put me below the 10.6 PSI. I asked them if they could take the measurements instead of reading the cars ECM, they agreed.

First time through I had an extremely high CO level and that is what it failed for. I had discovered that my bypass valve vacuum line had come disconnected and I fixed that problem. a few weeks later I went back in for another run and this tie it failed for high CO levels and also one of the other tests was now above the limit. The CO levels being high are most likley high due to the engine burning oil because of the incorrectly engineered PCV system. and the second time around is probably due to the gasoline being stale, it has been in the tank for 4-5 months now.

So I have to dump the tank and fill it up with new gasoline and add some oil catch cans.

I have already gotten the catch cans and I will be installing them tomorrow. This is what I picked up

[attach=1]

The oil getting into the intake tract is due to the lack of baffling inside of the valve cover on the vent line and when the recirculating valve on the turbo opens up the pressure from the charge pipe getting dumped back into the intake is directly across from where the PCV line is attached. so the pressure causes the air to travel backwards through the PCV system and out the vent line. There is a check valve on the vent line that is not designed to handle the pressure and the now oil soaked air blows past it.

I am going to be removing that check valve and putting an oil catch can in it's place and I am also adding a second catch can on the PCV line between the turbo and the valve cover as well.

I need to know how to attach the new lines to the valve cover. I know the valve cover has those damned SAE fittings and while I can get one of them off the other I will not be able to get off without taking the SAE fitting off the valve cover. What can I use to attach the line to the valve cover? I am wanting to use all AN fittings so it is a clean installation. any suggestions?

[Sol Asylum]

It's been a while since this topic came up on here but it has been discussed so there is probably a thread about what people have done.  I seem to recall that someone was able to drill and tap the valve cover to use a AN to pipe thread adaptor.

[TomatoSoup]

You CAN get both pipes off the valve cover fittings.  One is easy (as you said) with the oil pipe removal tool.  The other is more difficult, but I did it by cutting a medium-size zip-tie and taking a couple of 1/2" pieces and stuffing them sideways into the bell-end of the fitting to free the barbs.  Took some poking and prodding and twisting, but eventually it came off.

As for replacing the pipes, just use oil lines and oil line clips (or worm clamps, but those are more ugly)

[kgschlosser]

I have to measure the size of the nipples sticking out of the valve cover.  I think they are 5/16". They are called an SAE quick disconnect and there are 6an flare to 5/16" SAE connectors available. I have an aftermarket intake pipe and turbo so where the line attaches to the turbo is now in the intake pipe and has a 6an flared nipple.

Friggin AN fittings and  lines are going to cost as much as the damned catch cans. The catch cans weren't cheap either. I wanted a dual setup on a single bracket and that was the only company I found that made a dual can setup that is baffled. The capacity of them is on the smaller side and I am still having to make some modifications to get them to fit.

[kgschlosser]

Well the first hose came off pretty easily. I pulled on i and turned it at the same time. this flipped the "teeth" backwards and it came right off. The one to the front of the engine is going to be a little bit more difficult because I have a shock tower brace, intake pipe and coolant line that is in the way. I am not going to be able to spin and pull like I did he last one. I literally have only about 1mm of space between the fitting and the valve cover and that is with me pulling it out as far as it will go. I am not going to be able to fit much of anything in that gap. I am going to try some mechanics wire and wrap it would the pipe a couple of times and see if I can use a pick tool to push it under the fitting. IDK if it will be large enough to push the locks up.

There is no way I am going to get a zip tie in the space either. I may have to take the shock tower brace, intake pipe and coolant line off so I can do the pull and spin thing. we will see what happens.

[kgschlosser]

the nipple is 3/8" I got them both off. I slid a flat head between the other fitting and the valve cover and gave a twist and it pushed right off YAY!!!.. I have the cans installed and the lines ran. The rest of the AN fittings are arriving Thursday, so tomorrow I am going to drain the gas tank and put new fuel in. I also have to finish up the heat shield I a making for the turbo. I am probably going to keep the stock one in place and I will add the new one I am making over the top of the old one, leaving a space between them. The catch cans location is really close to the turbo and I do not want the lines or the cans getting all gummied up because of the crap inside cooking from the heat.

[kgschlosser]

Got the parts needed and I drained the gas from the tank. all that's left is to finish up the catch can install and put the trunk back together. put some gasoline in and see if I can pass emissions on Saturday morning.. If this doesn't work I will put the OE Catalyst back in the car as the high flow one has got to be defective at this point. I would have done every thing that I can do to get the car to pass emissions.

[kgschlosser]

 Here is how the catch can install came out.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]


I used a dual can setup and put one on the vent line and one on the PCV line. This allowed me to eliminate the check valve so the air can flow in whatever direction it wants. I still have to pull the intake and clean off the backs of the valves. I have a sand blaster IDK if I can use walnut shells in it. I have to do some research on that.

I spent some pretty decent coin on that setup also. The dual cans were 268.00 and then all of the AN fittings and hoses to make the connections. That AN crap is expensive, but it sure is purdy when it's all installed.

This is what I used and how much each piece was.

6an to 3/8" SAE straight: 2pcs @ 8.99 each = 17.98
6an to 3/8" SAE 90: 1pc @ 14.99 each = 14.99
6an female flare to hose compression 90: 5pcs @ 8.99 each = 44.95
6an hose separators: 3 packs @ 9.99 each = 29.97
10an male flare to 10an male ORB: 2pcs @ 6.50 each = 13.00
10an female flare to 6an male flare: 2pcs @ 7.50 each = 15.00
6an male flare to 10an ORB: 2pcs @ 8.99 each = 17.98
6an female flare to hose compression: 1pc @ 5.50 each = 5.50
6an female flare to hose compression 45: 1pc @ 9.99 each = 9.99
6an stainless steel and nylon braided oil line: 10ft @ 3.30 foot = 33.00
Radium Engineering dual catch can: 1pc @ 268.00 each = 268.00

The cost of the hoses is 202.36
Total price is 470.36

Since I deleted the power steering in the car the bottle is no longer installed.  The monster bracket under the fuse box didn't need to be so damned large. So I chopped it off close to where the stud sticks out for the nut that holds the fuse box in place. There is a little shelf looking deal on the wheel well liner. I made a bracket that sits on that shelf and it's pop riveted to the fuse box bracket. There is one bolt that holds the fuse box bracket under the hood latch and I put a bolt through the fender liner where the shelf is into the bracket I made. I pop riveted a piece of 1" x 1" x 1/8" aluminum "L" channel to the fuse box bracket and the pop riveted a piece of 2" x 1/8"  aluminum flat bar as a backing plate for the catch cans. I the made a trim piece to cover over the connection spot and rivets.

I think it came out pretty good. We will see if it solves my issue. I am going to data log the car on the ride to the emissions place and also see if I can data log it while it is on the dyno. Which reminds me I have to plug in th laptop to charge.

[kgschlosser]

I did want to mention that I had to buzz a little bit off the 6an to 3/8 SAE fitting that attached to the valve cover at the front of the engine. The barb on the pipe wasn't far enough away from the valve cover to get the fitting to lock on. I had to take 2-3mms off of the fitting in order to get it to lock.

[kgschlosser]

the catch cans I got have plugs in the bottom of them so I can attach a line and a ball valve if I wanted to be able to drain them without having to unscrew the bottoms of the cans. I will probably do  this and "Y" the lines together and use a single ball valve.

[Sly Bob]

Looks great, nice job on the install.

[kgschlosser]

@Sly Bob

Thanks, I think it came out pretty good. I will be leaving to get the emissions test done in about 30 minutes. We will see how that goes. I am crossing my fingers that it will pass. If not I am going to put the stock catalyst back on as there has to be something defective with this one. It's just a royal pain to change the catalyst especially without a lift.

I hope they let me data log the car while it is on the dyno as that would help a HUGE amount so I can see what is going on. They give me a  graph that shows what the readings are during the test and if I can align that with the logging output I will be able to see what is really happening.

[Rdesh]

Nice install, looks great. If you like to step on her hard you?re going to be surprised how much oil you catch. I can?t remember which can was which but it about 4 to 1 catch rate and I?m guessing I?ll have to empty the cans once a year (winter parked up here for 6 months per)

[kgschlosser]

well even after the catch can install I didn't pass emissions. My CO levels are 3 grams per mile over the limit. It's really close. The only thing it can be at this point is the tune is running rich or the catalyst is defective.

Listen to this BS on how he emissions are done here in Colorado. If a car is < 8 years old it is emissions exempt. If a car is < 11 years old and > 7 years old it is a plugin OBD test. and if a car is > 10 years old it gets put on the dyno What is BS about it is if the car is > 10 year old and was built in > 1996 It has to pass the OBD test and the dyno test.. now does that make any sense??? The reasoning is that as the computer system in a car gets older it is not as accurate???? HUH??? what??..  There are reports of cars having passed the OBD portion of the test and fail the dyno test. The car gets taken to a different emissions testing center and it passes.

I can tell you that they do not drive the car right. They were shifting my car at 6000 RPM and when they shifted thy were dumping the clutch. they just about had the car jump off the dyno. and when the car needed to slow down they used the clutch and accelerator to slow the car down. My car was also close to overheating when they finished the test because the fan was blowing 80% of the air over the hood of the car and not into the grilles. The fan is too high of the ground.

There is also a big sign there that says you cannot video record them doing the test. I wonder why that is?..
What I find really strange is I also had to  bring my 2010 Lincoln MKS through emissions as well. This is how I found out about cars being > 10 years old having to be dyno tested.  I just replaced one of the catalysts on it and I didn't replace it with a CARB compliant catalyst because I wasn't going to spend 1000 on a catalyst. as of the 1st of this year all catalysts installed onto a car have to be CARB compliant. The catalyst on that car was a fleabay catalyst as that is the only thing I could get shipped into the state. Needless to say it didn't fit exactly like it should have and the crush gasket crushed crooked where the catalyst attached to the manifold. There is a pretty decent size exhaust leak... That car passed with numbers that were 90% lower then the limits.. How is that possible?? WTH is going on with the emissions in Colorado?? is it a scam?? Also when they drove the car on the dyno it was perfectly smooth the entire time.

Why would they beat on one car on the dyno and not another car?? how come a car with a non CARB compliant catalyst is able to pass emissions?? how come a car with a monster exhaust leak that is before the catalyst is able to pass emissions with flying colors???

Something shady going on here. I think I am going to have to get the news stations involved in this.

[kgschlosser]

For those that live in the metro area of Denver I am sure you have seen those "Rapid" test centers that are set up on the side of the highway on ramps. Have a car you have performance upgraded and you have to change tunes and parts to get it to pass emissions??? When you drive through one of those rapid tests just before you roll through it put the car in neutral and turn the key off. once thru start the car back up and put it back in gear and away you go. 0 emissions vehicle!!!!!

[kgschlosser]

@rdesh

I remember working with you when you were installing the catch cans. I explained to you the engineering blunder that GM made any why there is oil getting into the intake.

I typed up a long thing about how GM designed the system  and where the failure is in the design and also how GM put a band-aide on the system so the problem wouldn't become apparent until after the 3 year 36,000 mile warranty had passed so they wouldn't have to repair the vehicles. I also went into great detail of what happens due to the faulty design and how to band-aide it in a better way. The proper solution is a complete redesign of the valve cover. My write up was given to a GM master tech and he agree with both the diagnostic of the design flaw and also what the proper fix is and the better band-aide way of reducing issues caused by the poorly designed EVAP system.

The really crappy part about the whole thing is the EPA has made it so that the system cannot be modified from it's original design. The original design is flawed and the parts in the original design can no longer be purchased.  So a car that has 30,000 miles on it is headed to the bone yard because the OE parts can no longer be purchased. And even tho the redesign would make the system work better then the OE design it is still not allowed. How narrow minded of the EPA.

You have car manufacturers like Audi that use air oil separators on their turbo powered vehicles to prevent oil from getting into the intake on the car but then you have a vehicle like the Solstice GXP that does not and as a result oil gets into the intake and causes all kinds of problems and bad emissions. But you cannot install an air oil separator onto the GXP even tho it has been proven to work and is an allowed emissions part on the Audi.... I don't get it.  I really don't. It is this exact reason why people will vent a PCV to atmosphere.

[kgschlosser]

and here is a rant about emissions
Here is some really simple math. I have probided links to gonvernment sites where he data has been acquired.
Any data not in those linke is easily google searched

https://www.bts.gov/content/number-us-aircraft-vehicles-vessels-and-other-conveyances

194,348,815 registered passnger cars in 2019
  2,925,210 registered semi trucks in 2019

13500 miles driven each year per passenger  vehicle
45000 miles driven each year per semi truck


https://www.bts.gov/content/estimated-national-average-vehicle-emissions-rates-vehicle-vehicle-type-using-gasoline-and

semi truck stats

161.800 grams of CO2 per ton-mile
  1.165 grams of NOx per mile
 16.408 grams of CO per mile
  1.264 grams of HC per mile


passenger car stats
411.000 CO2 grams per mile
  0.215 NOx grams per mile
  4.396 CO grams per mile
  0.302 HC grams per mile for passenger cars




semi trucks
2,925,210 * 45,000 = 131634450000 miles a year

ton mile is 2000 lbs over 1 mile.
80 * 161.800 = 12944 of CO2 to carry 80,000 lbs 1 mile

CO2
131634450000 * 12944 = 1703876320800000 grams per year

HC
131634450000 * 1.264 = 166385944800 grams per year

NOx
131634450000 * 1.165 = 153354134250 grams per year

CO
131634450000 * 16.408 = 2159858055600 grams per year


passenger cars
194,348,815 * 13500 = 2623709002500 miles per year

CO2
2623709002500 * 411 = 1078344400027500 grams per year

HC
2623709002500 * 0.302 = 792360118755 grams per year

NOx
2623709002500 * 0.215 = 564097435537.5 grams per year

CO
2623709002500 * 4.396 = 11533824774990 grams per year


here are the totals, pssenger cars are on the top and semi trucks are on the bottom


HC
792360118755
166385944800

NOx - indirect GHG
564097435537.5
153354134250.0

CO - very weak direct GHG
11533824774990
 2159858055600

CO2 - largest direct GHG
1078344400027500 passenger cars
1703876320800000 semi trucks


IDK what math the EPA is using
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-greenhouse-gas-emissions

58% of transportation GHG emissions are from passeger cars (light duty) and 24% is from heavy duty??!?!?!?


as per the EPA (https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases) the only emission
from a vehicle that contributed to GHG is CO2

So I am wondering how passenger cars make up the majority of CO2 emissions when you can clearly see that
semi trucks are 58% higher then passenger cars.

How in the hell are they doing their math???
I am only calculating semi trucks and not all heavy duty trucks. The numbers would be even more off if all heavy duty vehicles were used.

[kgschlosser]

Oh also from my readings I discovered that in order to determine grams per mile driven as seen on the Colorado Emissions reports the testing equipment needs to know what the engine RPM is. The OBD (DLC) port on my car is not functional, they get a communications error when they plug in. I have seen it on their testing screen. So they aren't getting the RPMs from the cars computer. They have a lead that they can clamp onto a spark plug wire to get the RPMs can't do that on the Solstice. In fact they never even opened my hood and never attached anything to the car other then trying he OBD which didn't work so they disconnected it. So how exactly did they calculate the grams per mile without knowing the vehicles RPM? I am guessing that there is a default value that is used, but what happens if the vehicles  RPMs are not the same as the default value? as in a heap load higher? The car would then be putting out a higher number of grams per mile. I wonder if the is the reason why they kept on bringing the RPMs up so crazy high on my car. In no way is bringing the car up to 5000+ RPMs between every shift considered normal driving.

I am going to find another location to test the car next weekend and see what happens.

 

[kgschlosser]

I got em!!! check this out.

[attachimg=1]

These are the RPMs that they are supposed to shift the car at when doing the IM240 test. I know for 100% certainty they are not doing this. I also know they are not letting the can idle down to 15MPH before pushing the clutch in. They are also supposed to disable the traction control which they are not doing either...

I am going to correct the OBD issue this week and I will set up a laptop in the car showing that it is recording the RPMs, clutch position, gear and speed. If they are not doing what is outlined in he federal standards I am going to inform the news stations. Colorado emissions has been hanging on by a thread and the only reason why it is still here is because of the number of failures. If the number of failures is because of manipulation by the company that does the tests it will get shut down. Emissions tests need to be done in a manner that can have ZERO influence by a human. if the results can be altered by how the person is operating he vehicle on a dyno then they shouldn't be doing them.

I have a graph that shows what time in the test specific readings are taking place. You can see from the readings when the shifting it happening and it is not when it is supposed to be taking place.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Seems like they just don't have a clue

[Sol Asylum]

How much oil did the catch cans get?

[kgschlosser]

I got them.  I found it. The first 2 times my vehicle went in for testing the car could not be communicated with. The last time it could. Low and behold they hung themselves. On the last failure report it provides data collected from the ECM. It only shows 4 data collections at different intervals in the test. One of the data points shows the engine speed at 2800RPM and the car going 60 MPH. the federal regulation state that at that time interval the car should be doing 55MPH. It also states that a shift from 4h gear to 5th gear should occur at 45 mph. well in order to be doing 60MPH and have the engine RPM be 2800 the car would have to be in 4th gear.

There is only a single time during the entire 240 second test that the vehicle be downshifted and that is when the speed comes to a complete stop part way into the test.  one data point shows the car moving at 40 MPH and the RPM's indicate the car is in 5th gear which is the wrong gear. The speed keeps on increasing from that data point to the next but at the next data point it shows the car in 4th gear. The other thing is the data point where the car is at 40mph and  in 5th gear the engine load is 100% and the accelerator is at 93% which is all the way to the floor. I could understand if shifting from second to 3rd and you mess up and end up in 5th but if you were in 5th gear at 25mph (which is when the shift from 2nd to 3rd is supposed to take place) the car would not accelerate at all. so it can't be because a gear was missed  as there is no way to accidentally skip 4th gear and end up in 5th unless the shift out of second didn't occur at 25mph and was closer to 40mph where the guy doing the test missed 3rd gear and ended up in 5th right before the data was collected. This is what has actually taken place.

in late 2016 a new station did a report on this type of thing happening. They reported on it because mechanics were looking at vehicles that failed emissions and they could find not one thing wrong with it. No DTC's and when the car was check at the repair place with an exhaust sniffer it came back as passing. Car sent to a different testing place and it passes emissions and nothing has changed except the person that operated the vehicle and the facility it was tested at. There was no concrete evidence to be able to prove anything. I have the evidence and it was printed out and handed to me by the testing facility. It shows the vehicle being operated at speeds > then what the regulations state, it shows the vehicle being in incorrect gears causing the RPMs on the vehicle to be at least double what the regulations state they should be. the higher the engine RPM's the more grams of emissions are going to be put out for a given mile. plain and simple. You can also clearly see emissions output on deceleration when DFCO is supposed to be active. that means they are clutching the car when they shouldn't be and not allowing DFCO to activate. This will skew emission output as well.


I put a complaint into the Motor Vehicle Department who governs the emissions testing facilities. I went over the entire ordeal with them and pointed out the problems and what is not being done properly. I also suggested that they look at my other vehicle which passed with flying colors and that vehicle has 190K miles on it where the vehicle that is failing has 60K miles on it. I said it would be interesting to see if how many of the failing vehicles are not in compliance with the federal regulations on when gear shifts are supposed to occur. I also stated that this exact issue was brought up by a news station in 2016 and they were asking questions about the accuracy  of the IM240 tests and if the results could be altered depending o how the vehicle is being driven during the test. The response was it could not be. I said in the complaint that I needed to know where to get the emissions tested that is in compliance with the federal regulations so I can get my car registration renewed seeing as how it i now a year past it's expiration and I have not been able to operate the vehicle due to trying to correct a problem that never existed.

I am hoping that they get the hint that if they don't pass my car I am going to go to the new stations.

[kgschlosser]

How much oil did the catch cans get?

haven't looked.

[kgschlosser]

well I got a response from the DMV and the response said that they will be talking to Air Care Colorado tomorrow and pulling the records that Air Care has for both of the vehicles that were tested on Saturday. The guy also said that from the information I have provided raises a lot of question. He also verified the speed against the RPM using the gear ratios I provided him and he said my assessment of what gear the vehicle is in is correct and also the the gear ratios are correct for the year make model and trim. Which I already knew.

I had forgotten to mention why the person running the test was in 5th gear at 40 MPH, but the guy that replied to my complaint had figured  it out on his own.  The person doing the test had the car in second gear and had brought the car up close to 40MPH in second gear. when they shifted from second to go into third they missed 3rd and landed in 5th just before the data sample was taken. and that is why at the next sample point the car had been downshifted into 4th gear. He said that a data sample is taken once every 30 seconds and it is recorded, they only print out 6 of the 480 samples that are taken but He is going to get all of the data from them and evaluate it. He is also going to look at how my other vehicle was driven as well.

His last statement was this is very concerning if they are treating peoples vehicles in this manner and also if it is being done to fail people intentionally in order to raise the number of failures to make it look like emissions testing is beneficial to have.


Air Care Colorado  is owned by a much larger company called Opus Inspection and they do the emissions testing for a total of 12 states. If they are artificially inflating the number of failures and it goes public you sure as shit know that they will no longer be doing emissions testing in any state.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Great investigative work.  Hope there is some change that comes of this.