Topic: All these tunes are getting me dizzy

[snaponbob]

So dizzy, I am going to urp. SO many graphs, SO many claims, SO many variables. And that was BEFORE the GM tune !!!!! Interestingly, quite a few of the vendors that are writing their own tunes are commenting on the GM tune, and I am not sure what to make of that. On AVERAGE, it seems that everybody is getting to similar results. Sort of like in the Solo world so many guys said that THEY had THE hot set up, but it appeared that after a while a "sweet spot" was being found and most had similar set ups and results. Make no mistake, the folks that are investing their valuable time and energy are doing wonderful work. And the tire companies should be sending them Christmas cards. :wink:

So, given that the GM tune is "open" and can be tuned on, how will the various tuners going to deal with it? Will they deconstruct the GM tune and provide updates to their own products? Will they sell updates to the GM tune, either per change or as a subscription? I have yet to pull the trigger on a tune, and I am so glad I waited. But since I will be changing from A/S to B/SP in SCCA Solo a tune will be bought before March!! It would be a GREAT service to all who are going to guy tunes to really know the features and benefits of the various tunes. Granted, that is asking the fox to guard the hen house, but their must be a way to sort out all of this short of buying all of the various tunes and living at a dyno shop !!!!!

So far, it seems that a GM tune with some tweaks may be the best package. Some will want the GM tune as it is a GM package that will maintain warranty. But since it can be worked with HP Tuner there is more to gain at the risk of warranty loss. However, if there are problems the default settings could be restored via HPT. Sort of gone in circles, haven't I? I know that whatever I buy, HPT will be one of the items I will have. From there, it depends on support for future mods (downpipe, I/C, air intake, etc.) and how they will be offerred up.

Comments?

[DeepBlueGXP]

Westers had the greatest results without the GM Stage II, now we have to wait and see what he can provide.  Currently I have 22 PSI Boost (steady) with 280HP and 320 Torque to the rear wheels.  Some vendors don't post RWHP but BHP in the event to make you thing they are providing more HP.   I'll wait for Westers to see how he improves the tune with Stage II parts

[baconbits]

Does anyone know.. If you  revert back to the stock tune with the new MAP sensor will the car run ..I know the new sensor has a larger span of 3 bars for what I would assume is the same maximum output voltage.. would this affect the resolution (ie pressure per millivolt) to outside controller limits and throw codes.. just wondering.
Bacon

[snaponbob]

Westers had the greatest results without the GM Stage II, now we have to wait and see what he can provide.  Currently I have 22 PSI Boost (steady) with 280HP and 320 Torque to the rear wheels.  Some vendors don't post RWHP but BHP in the event to make you thing they are providing more HP.   I'll wait for Westers to see how he improves the tune with Stage II parts

Over on the HHR forum a tuner showed  FIRST dyno chart with a modified GM tune on a 08 HHR SS with an I/C and all the other standard goodies. Tow posts later he showed another dyno chart for the same vehicle. The first presented 400 ft/lbs and 350 hp with the caveat that he had recalculated it because so many others do, and the second chart was supposed to be the raw data showing 350wtq and 300whp. But the graphs were NOT the same traces. WTF. The "adjusted" numbers should have shown the same traces, but just lower. Go figure.

It sure seems that Lyndon has the best handle on tuning the 2.0 so far. Others are getting good results as well, but Lyndon just keeps raising the bar. TODAY I would buy the GM tune and HPT to raise the rev limit. But, when Lyndon gets his hand swrapped around the GM tune he may either improve on it or fold some code into his tunes. Time is on my side, so I will be watching closely. 

[BLK GXP]

I bought the Wester's tune when the big NASSOA discount was in effect. I am happy with it. I'm sure that it will get better over time as he gets access to any additional hardware to improve it with.

[spicy3480]

Agreed...the tune will only get better as Lyndon works with the new GM stage II kit.

[lil goat]

Many of the tunes that are offered from some of the "other: vendors, are based on the Wester's tune, the Westers's tune was posted on a forum, and shortly there after others had a similar tune. There are parts of the tune that Wester's can access, but HP Tuners can't. I am sure this will be the same with the GMPP tune, just as I am sure people will copy the mods he makes as well, thing is they can not change all the things he can, only copy. He is also working on a tune for a 4 BAR TMAP, this should put boost over 30 psi. It may require a bit more work to use, did I mention Lyndon also does head porting? He has a full flow bench in his shop. It may work out that the only way to get the new TMAP sensors is buy the GM tune, that is still yet to be seen. Wherever I get the sensors, you can bet the tune I run will be Wester's as I already have more HP than the GM tune with the stock sensors.

[Critterman]

So LilGoat, just so I don't get confused, which tune do you recommend?

[lil goat]

Me I am absolutely 110% behind GM Roasters, he is such a cool guy and really, really like's me. Hey you can get HID headlight kits from him too, for 2 to 3 times the price on eBay.

In all honesty, if you do not already have a tune the GMPP is an excellent place to start, then a magic up grade down the road from my favorite Canadian Red Neck eh!

[Critterman]

 

[baconbits]

"my favorite Canadian Red Neck eh!"
The redness isn't from the sun.. its frostbite
Bacon

[Cheers]

... my favorite Canadian Red Neck eh!

Mine too!   

[spicy3480]

Lyndon is an expert at what he does.  He has been held up on testing because of really bad weather in Canada, but he will be back at it soon.  I am sure we will see something from him soon after the holiday season!!

[chuckdoc]

I had the Westers tune and it was great.  Now have the GM tune and will soon have the Westers tune modified for new TMAPs and my mods. 

[DeepBlueGXP]

I emailed Chucks Stage II tune to Westers!!!

[spicy3480]

Hey Joe and Chuck....Lyndon has told me that the GM tune is extremely basic.  He actually had me email him my stock tune to compare them.  I hope Gm didn't skimp out...maybe that explains the lower price.

[chuckdoc]

Let me know what he says.  Joe and I compared and it was different with lots of table changes but we had no idea what it meant. 

I can assure you it is a big increase in torque but I know Lyndon can make it better.

[lil goat]

I am thinking maybe the biggest difference is that the nanny controls are dialed back a lot, and the new sensors are allowing more boost at low rpm's. That would make a huge difference by it self. I am sure Lyndon will work magic!

[Wester's Garage]

Hey Joe and Chuck....Lyndon has told me that the GM tune is extremely basic.  He actually had me email him my stock tune to compare them.  I hope Gm didn't skimp out...maybe that explains the lower price.

Actually--what HPT shows is extremely basic (what GM did is pretty extensive). There's hundreds of byte changes in the real full meal deal. I'm still going through the modifications that GM has made on this...there are many. HPT shows 18 changes. The actual byte 'count' changes in the code are well over 1400 at a basic glance so far. There's a lot to still go through.

Lyndon.

[lil goat]

1400 changes! WOW! it would seem this will separate the men from the boys when it comes to retuning the GMPP for even better preformence.

[chuckdoc]

Ya got that right, it is a great tune.  I just wish I had a manual shift instead of the dumb automatic.  I had to buy the auto so I could drive to the city everyday so my knee would not swell but when I retire, I want the manual and the GMtune.  Now can you imagine what it will be like when lyndon gets to tweak it. 

Chuck

[Pep]

I have the manual 2008 GXP, and I have the westers tune ,love it, Steve, would you like me to get the GM stage kit for the manual so that you can send it to Westers, I'm willing to help out on this?

[spicy3480]

The file from it has already been sent to him...thanks to Chuckdoc.

[spicy3480]

He said through email to me that he was surprised at how BASIC the GM stage 2 tune was.  The only thing we could possibly benefit from are the upgraded sensors, but if you think about it, how much more can we spin this turbo without overspinning it and reducing its lifespan by a lot?

[chuckdoc]

Maybe, that was his first look.  Check on his actual post where he said he was still looking at it and if you use HP tuners you do not see the changes.  1400 changes so far and he is still analysing it.  I think we just have to watit and see.  I can tell you it is definately more torque than before.  Not just seat of pants but based on flooring it from a stop and having the traction control go on most of the time.  This is on dry roads and going in a straight line.

Chuck