Topic: Warranty Games

[lil goat]

It would seem as the economy gets bad and things go sideways with Saturn especially the dealers are trying to play warranty games and deny warranties. This is crap, be aware of your rights. What is and is not covered and how things are handles is FEDERAL LAW, it is not at the discretion of some clown Service Manager. Let me offer some insight as once upon a time very long ago I was a Service Writer. Did you know Service Writer's and managers work on commission? They do. Did you also know they get paid about half as much for a warranty claim as they do when you pay for it. They are very motivated to get you to pay. Some dealers are very honest, others not so much. I know of one very recent attempt by a Saturn dealer to deny a warranty because they claimed that Mobil 1 hadn't been used, and it was not even an oil or lubrication related problem, Saturn owner support was called and they didn't even know the law. This is just a load of crap. First off they can NOT make you use Mobil 1 unless they give it to you free, that is Federal Law. Harley tried this crap years ago and got shot down. They can make you use an oil that meets a certain factory spec, they can not specify what brand. You can certainly change your own oil, and don't have to prove anything. The burden is on them to prove that what ever oil you used did not meet spec. Then they have to prove it caused the problem in question, if they can prove that you did not use the correct oil and your turbo goes out, you get to buy a new turbo, but even if you are using the wrong oil and your A/C goes out they have to fix your A/C. They can not void your entire warranty for one issue. I have seen the other latest trick is if you have a CAI, they want to give you a hard time, again they have to prove it had something to do with the issue. If your transmission fails they have to replace it, they can not deny a warranty because you have CAI they don't have anything to do with one another. This is all covered in the Magnuson-Moss act, if your dealer is a pain in the butt, first find a new dealer if you can, ANY GM dealer can service your car, second if you don't have a choice read and understand the Magnuson-Moss act and keep a copy in the glove box. DON'T be a victim. Read the Federal LAW, you should know your rights or you deserve what you get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act


 Sorry for the rant but I hate to see people get taken advantage of, I am not a lawyer but I do play one on TV.

[GTO3296]

Thanks for the info LIL GOAT. I printed it out for future reference. Although it has been years, even decades, since I have had a warranty issue, the consumer has the advantage if well prepared........

[DeepBlueGXP]

Great info so I stuck it...

[tazz]

While it's true that they have to prove that a non OEM part caused the failure they to a point have time on there side so to speak.  They know that most people don't have the $$ or time to fight but if you do be prepared since it could take up to a few years to get your problem resolved.  If it's something major like engine failure or tranny failure your vehicle will be in a non driveable condition till the time the warranty issue is resolved and a person could still be making payments and a vehicle that they cannot drive.  
Also if the Area Rep that handles the warranty issues gets involved NOT EVEN THE DEALER OWNER has any say in what they do to take care of or deny the warranty claim.  
I have known quite a few people who have had this happen to them with FORD in the last 6yrs.  Most of them have Lightnings, Cobras or the Harley Trucks that are Supercharged.  Many of the issues had to do with the trucks launching spark plugs since the heads only had 4 threads holding the plug in up until mid 03.  Many also had a tune installed so for the most part Ford Corporate blamed the plug launching on a increase of boost do to the aftermarket tune so they would deny the warranty.  A few of them had the time any money to fight and the ones that did eventually got it taken care of but the whole process two almost 2yrs to complete.  For those that did not have the time or money to fight they spent the money to get it fix then moved on.  
Not trying to get anyone down but just letting you know that if they play hard ball they can tie you and your vehicle up as well  as your money for some time.
Best thing is to find a honest dealer with honest service department and go from there.  

[lil goat]

Great info so I stuck it...

 Thanks Joe unfortunately one of our forum members is living this nightmare and asked me for help is what prompted the post. Denying a fuel pressure sensor warranty because they CLAIM that you didn't use Mobil 1, with absolutely no reason to do so other than the oil changes were not done by the dealer is just a load of crap (by the way I don't think it's even is the fuel pressure sensor). Dealer has never changed the oil on my car and I have had no issues, with the fuel pump fuel rail issue that my car is in the shop for right now.

I had a friend get screwed on the Ford truck Harley deal, but unfortunately he had done the mods and trashed the tranny at the drag strip, that WAS his fault. There are valid reasons to deny a claim, brand of oil isn't one of them.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Sound like it's you getting screwed on your warranty?  I stopped using Mobil 1 also.

[lil goat]

No I have no problems with my warranty, they are covering everything. someone else had a similar problem and the dealer the car was towed to are guessing at what the problem is and trying to deny the warranty. Koons knew what mine was Monday morning  after I drove it in Saturday afternoon with reduced power,they called GM Tech, just haven't been able to get the new fuel rail, fuel pump has been in for a week. Koons has been awesome to me, no problems at all. (Joe do you really think these guys would want to mess with me, easier to fix the car and make me go away  )

They just called my car is done, they put the factory tune back in it, GM Tech said they had to, but no issues on fixing the problem. The only charge is for replacing a brake light bulb that was out. I have NEVER used Mobil 1 in my car, first oil change was to Castrol Syn. (found out they weren't 100% synthetic either) then Royal Purple ever since. I asked the service writer about the oil issue, he told me than can ask for receipts to prove you changed the oil regularly if you did it yourself but it DOES NOT have to be Mobil 1, it just has to meet GM Spec. If you don't have the receipts you can have the oil analyzed to prove it is still good, and they can pull the filter and have it checked. If it is an oil related problem. GM Tech was told it didn't have the stock tune, they said unless the engine is blown just fix it, that was from GM Tech direct, NOT the dealer. They also bled the clutch as they said it didn't feel right, and there is a TB out with a new bleed procedure to improve feel.

 Lesson learned reset tune to stock before going to dealer, I limped in from way the heck out in MD and just forgot, I was trying to drop it off before they closed.

[GTO3296]

TAZZ is absolutely correct in getting the Area Rep involved early on!!! The last warranty issue I had was way back on my 1978 Grand Prix. When I would wash the vehicle in a self car wash, the gold paint would flake off on the driver's side door and rear quarter panel (no place else). I took it to the dealer where I bought the car and the body service manager tried to tell me it was rock chips and they were not responsible. He was unable to explain why rocks only chipped one side of the car or how rocks got into the car wash????? I called Pontiac and they arranged to have me meet their Area Rep at the dealer within the week. The Area Rep looked at the side of the GP for about 5 seconds and turned to the service manager an simply said "Paint it!". Problem solved.

In the past 30 years, the only recurring problem I have had with my GM cars were the window regulator motors (GM must use a better quality motor for the repair than the factory put in, the motors all failed during warranty and no problems with the replacement part), and their Delco radios (I have had to have 4 or 5 radios repaired/replaced under warranty, gee I wonder where in the world they were sourced from)......

[PURE_Fun]

No I have no problems with my warranty, they are covering everything. someone else had a similar problem and the dealer the car was towed to are guessing at what the problem is and trying to deny the warranty. Koons knew what mine was Monday morning  after I drove it in Saturday afternoon with reduced power,they called GM Tech, just haven't been able to get the new fuel rail, fuel pump has been in for a week. Koons has been awesome to me, no problems at all. (Joe do you really think these guys would want to mess with me, easier to fix the car and make me go away  )

Why not get the new DDM fuelrail?  Or would that delete the purpose?

[lil goat]

The DDM unit is for the 2.4 not the GXP, and the dealer fixed it for free.

[smartin]

I sent her your way, LG. Thanks for helping.

[lil goat]

No problem, happy to help, she did tell me you sent here to me. I hope she got squared away, haven't heard much lately.

[smartin]

This is what she posted yesterday on her Facebook.

Saturn of Union, not all the parts came in. Will be another day or two!

[lil goat]

Maybe they finally called GM Tech, it sounds like exactly what happened to me, took 2 weeks for parts but everything was free.

[lil goat]

This has gotten really ugly, the dealer is claiming that the wrong oil was used and it caused the cam to be wiped. I called my dealer and asked about this, the way it works is if you change your own oil and there is a warranty claim that could have been caused by using the wrong oil, you must have receipts to prove what kind of oil you used. This is still a load, because just because you bought it does not mean you put it in the car. I pay $20 to have mine changed by a mechanic friend, I supply the oil and filter. I guess now I am glad I do, he has everything fully documented.

[smartin]

Yea, it has gotten way out of hand.

[Uranium-238]

This has gotten really ugly, the dealer is claiming that the wrong oil was used and it caused the cam to be wiped. I called my dealer and asked about this, the way it works is if you change your own oil and there is a warranty claim that could have been caused by using the wrong oil, you must have receipts to prove what kind of oil you used. This is still a load, because just because you bought it does not mean you put it in the car. I pay $20 to have mine changed by a mechanic friend, I supply the oil and filter. I guess now I am glad I do, he has everything fully documented.

So, if the same were to happen to me I'd be screwed, since I paid cash for my oil and filter once and turned down the offer for a receipt.

Doesn't that kinda go against the MM act? Wouldn't the burden of proof of the use of improper oil be on them, and not on us to prove them wrong?

[LiquidPT]

So, if the same were to happen to me I'd be screwed, since I paid cash for my oil and filter once and turned down the offer for a receipt.

Doesn't that kinda go against the MM act? Wouldn't the burden of proof of the use of improper oil be on them, and not on us to prove them wrong?

Well, even if that's the case, that's in theory... in reality, they have your non-functioning car and lawyers...

[sunnygator]

This has gotten really ugly, the dealer is claiming that the wrong oil was used and it caused the cam to be wiped. I called my dealer and asked about this, the way it works is if you change your own oil and there is a warranty claim that could have been caused by using the wrong oil, you must have receipts to prove what kind of oil you used. This is still a load, because just because you bought it does not mean you put it in the car. I pay $20 to have mine changed by a mechanic friend, I supply the oil and filter. I guess now I am glad I do, he has everything fully documented.

So I've changed my own oil, all but twice, and kept the receipts in a service log for my Sol......

But my very first oil change (3K miles), at the dealer, the receipt does NOT say they used synthetic, while the last time I took it to them, it does say synthetic, and they charged me a bit more for the oil..... 

Fortunately, I only drove at most about 2K miles after that first change, as I changed it myself at 5K when I rotated the tires......hopefully it didn't screw anything up.....but if it did, it is certainly "dealer error"

sunnygator

[Bosch]

So, if the same were to happen to me I'd be screwed, since I paid cash for my oil and filter once and turned down the offer for a receipt.

Doesn't that kinda go against the MM act? Wouldn't the burden of proof of the use of improper oil be on them, and not on us to prove them wrong?

You say send a sample to the lab, and always take the receipt.

I wish the owner well that is having the issue, cause that is a hell I don't ever want to go to.

[lil goat]

It says in our owners manual to use synthetic and it must meet GM spec, they can make you prove you did even under the MM act. This dealer is being a real tool, they are being greedy. Some jack a$$ service manager is trying to take advantage of a woman, just because she didn't pay the outrageous price a dealer wants to have her oil changed. They tried to deny the claim BEFORE they even knew what the problem was. This is obviously a rip off by a dishonest dealer. It is a real shame to see stuff like this, but unfortunately you can not choose where you car will break down and where you will get towed. I still question if they even know what the heck is wrong with the car, as the cam is there second guess, after the fuel sensor. My money is still on the fuel rail.

[smartin]

They have finally agreed to fix it under warranty.

[Critterman]

Where are all of you following this event?

[DeepBlueGXP]

SkyhighNY on the Sky forum, I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned before?

[lil goat]

I don't do the Sky forum, she has been PM'ing me, thanks for the update Smartin!