Topic: Brake reservoir "racing" cap

[snaponbob]

Found it. Bob Herbers at GM Racing called me this morning with the info. The extended cap is part # PCS-0667 and sells for ~$45. Primary contact is bob.herbers@tgidirect.com, secondary contact is 810-239-4122. They are NOT set up for credit cards so you'll need to arrange payment by either mailing a check or COD shipment. How's THAT?

"Who's your daddy?"

[lil goat]

I got that info from the dealer last week, but when I emailed the address it bounced I never tried to call, they frown upon that from work. Does he have the a larger brake reservoir (part#93172093) too. I don't think I will be paying $45 for a cap, but I am sure some will. A larger reservoir that I might pay for, it has a multitude of advantages.

It is a TSB 06-05-22-004

[Critterman]

Just make sure it has the chamber for the clutch!

[Johnny-Longtorso]

If anyone gets one please post up a pic - $45 seems a bit premium for a "cap", unless it's got some elite ninja skills or something...  Still curious about the reservoir myself....

[lil goat]

Thanks for the correct email there SOB, one I had was different, Bob got right back to me on the reservoir. Here is his response.

They have two versions
The Opel  plastic reservoir is $57.00 and comes with the cap.
The PCS0667 is a smaller aluminum reservoir and uses your old cap and is $45.00

I asked to double check these share the clutch and brake like the stock ones, seems or European friends have us beat on this one.

[snaponbob]

Strange. Not questioning what you are say. But, here is the page copied from the Solstice Performance book. Maybe Bob sort of "mis-spoke".



Since the complaint is the spillage, I don't understand where a bigger reservoir with the stock cap is the remedy. If the extended cap is actually the PCS0667 p/n, that piece is a low production billet aluminum piece so the price is probably in line. Maybe it is made from unobtainium.

[lil goat]

The TSB, which I can't seemed to find, specifies upgrading both the cap and the reservoir, and that is what the dealer said as well, I sent Bob the part number #93172093 and his reply is posted above as to what choices he has available, larger volume of fluid will dissipate heat better and the one for the Opal comes with the cap. I would imagine if you got the aluminum reservoir you would want the replacement cap to go with it, I guess the aluminum acts as a heat sink or something. He said the Opal unit is much larger, it's only $57 and comes with a different cap, hopefully better. From the TSB, I did not get the impression the billet cap was any taller, just that it sealed better. I am sending him a check tonight, we'll see what I get soon enough. I just bought the blue goo and haven't changed it yet, perfect timing.

Maybe our Opal buddies can take a picture of there master cylinder and we can see the difference, there must be some reason they put it on the Opal?

[Uranium-238]

Most likely, better braking system overall to meet German safety standards. They do have to make sure the cars there can cope with higher speeds and all.

[lil goat]

That's what I was thinking U, anyway $57 is not going to brake (pun intended) me and I figure it can't hurt right?

[Uranium-238]

If it was me, I'd put the money towards better brake pads, but since you're getting new brakes in the near future new pads wouldn't be a sound investment for you.

[lil goat]

Exactly, I also think the added volume can only help with the additional pistons in the new calipers. I have not really been impressed with the results most people have posted about pads, we already have a severe brake bias to the front on the car. I think it was SOB who put different pads front and rear to offset the bias a bit

[snaponbob]

Here you go.

[lil goat]

Thanks Bob but many of us can not see pictures from photobucket at work, I rarely login from home so I never see the pictures. Maybe Joe or someone can post these as an attachment.

[snaponbob]

In speaking with Wilwood, and a couple of their vendors, the actual fluid volume is almost the same as the stock caliper. Four very small pistons vs. one big one. The aftermarket calipers do give a small bit of increased brake grip feel due to the fact that they are stationary vs. floating and thus act quicker. OEM brake systems are designed to pull the pistons back a tiny bit to completely release any pad pressure to a) reduce wear, and b) reduce drag for CAFE rating purposes. If aftermarket calipers don't do this (frankly, I don't know) there is just a bit less travel needed and thus firmer pedal feel. What I WAS told about developing more rear brake power is to install larger (13") disks on the rear!!! May not be real blingy, but the leverage from the contact point being further way from the axle center. The other (or additional) method is more aggressive rear pad. Add the to methods and a 70/30 can be changed to about 60/40.

As for fluid heat, not arguing but rather just "thinking", I sort of wonder if the hot fluid at the calipers is really going to migrate through the lines, proportioning valve, ABS pump, master cylinder, etc., to the reservoir. I would bet that the heat in the reservoir is from the engine compartment, as the fluid doesn't circulate as coolant or PS fluid does. If the Opel has a larger reservoir, it simply can't effect braking power unless the master cylinder is larger, as THAT is where the hydraulic pressure is generated. (I went down this long road when I was trying to improve the brakes on my TR8.)

[lil goat]

I did some reading on master cylinder piston size, and changing it is NOT something we want to do, the fluid is supposedly "boiling" over is what the complaint has been with the stock setup, I am not sure this is correct as I have not seen it, I have seen the overflow. I suspect the fluid is expanding due to heat at the least, I am hoping at a minimum the new reservoir will have more room for expansion, that will solve the problem no matter the cause. The Wilwood calipers I am getting have 6 pistons not 4, I am getting the Stage III kit, and the rear rotors are I believe 12.5 with the kit and a stock caliper. I emailed Dave at ASD but he has been out with the flu since he got back from SEMA. I will hope to have more info on the new kits soon.

[Uranium-238]

With the stock fluid, I was seeing spillage all over that area of the engine bay. With the blue juice from DDM, reservoir filled to the same level, everything has stayed in the reservoir.

[snaponbob]

Thanks Bob but many of us can not see pictures from photobucket at work, I rarely login from home so I never see the pictures. Maybe Joe or someone can post these as an attachment.

Well, talk about a bit of a challenge. I have a Dell V305 printer/scanner/copier and the instructions are not the best. After f'n around with it, I finally figured out how to copy/paste the text from TSB. Didn't think about server security issues blocking pics. For those so effected, they may want to take a look at home for a previous post where I posted a scan of the Solstice Performance page about the cap. So, here is the TSB;

Availability of Brake Reservoir or Extension Cap for Competitive Driving
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Numbers): 06-05-22-004A, Date of Issue: October 10, 2008
2006-2009 Pontiac Solstice; 2007-2009 Saturn SKY Model(s):
This bulletin is being revised to update the model years and announce the availability Supercedes:     of a brake reservoir. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 06-05-22-004
(Section 05 - Brakes). Related Ref Numbers): 06-05-22-004, 06-05-22-004A
ARTICLE BEGINNING SERVICE INFORMATION
This bulletin is meant to advise owners who intend to use their vehicle for competitive driving of the availability of a new baffled brake reservoir cap. This cap prevents fluid leakage when the reservoir is overfilled for competitive driving. As an alternative, a replacement brake reservoir with a larger fluid volume will replace the existing reservoir.
PARTS INFORMATION
To order, please contact the GM Racing Warehouse at (810) 239-4122. Parts Information
Part Number   Description
93172093   Brake Reservoir
PCS-0667   Brake Fluid Reservoir Extension Cap

[snaponbob]

With the stock fluid, I was seeing spillage all over that area of the engine bay. With the blue juice from DDM, reservoir filled to the same level, everything has stayed in the reservoir.

I was going respond to Goat about that, but I'll pop in here. You have probably hit the nail on the head. I did not know what the spillage was like or what the cause was. When Jim described when and how it happened, it seemed clear that the fluid was not spilling, but was being forced out. The only thing that would cause that would be the fluid boiling and that has been discussed before. The DOT4 has a much higher boiling point, so that is probably what is happening. Looking at the instructions from the Solstice Performance book, it seems that the cap extender is likely serving as a vent more than anything else. It is allowing the fluid some additional expansion area to give the fluid room to move and let the air bubble out. Or .... maybe not !!!!!!! That said, the SSB and T2 guys are probably testing the limits of the boiling point of the DOT4, so the extender certainly could help them as well.

One thing for sure ...... the case for DOT 4 certainly has been made, huh? (Or, "eh?" for our northern friends.  ) From all I have learned CASTROL SRF BRAKE FLUID Racing -1 DOT 4 SYNTHETIC is the best stuff out there, but it is EXPENSIVE!!

http://www.shopwiki.com/_Castrol+SRF+Brake+Fluid+%28CASTROL+SRF+BRAKE+FLUID+Racing+-1+DOT+4+SYNTHETIC+%29?o=309982917&s=237720&

But, with a wet boiling point of 518F it might be worth it if lower values are still boiling.

[kennysabarese]

I didn't notice you guys have a new thread. I guess this one has all the info in it now...

I have ATE Superblue and I still got spillage in the engine compartment when I was at the track.

[kennysabarese]

SCCA might have a problem with a larger res which is probably why the T2 car uses the cap.

I don't care about any rules, so I will probably get the larger res.

[lil goat]

Bob when you said that the Castrol is expensive you weren't kidding holy crud!
The Super Blue is only 396 wet.
Here is the chart for those who want to know.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=BRAKEFLUID&iorb=4764

 OK Bob, remember you started me down this path, Dot 3 like comes in our cars stock has a wet boiling point of 284. Now you ask what does wet boiling point mean, all brake fluid is wet (or at least I did)

WET VS. DRY BOILING POINT
The term boiling point when used regarding brake fluid means the temperatures that brake fluid will begin to boil.

WET BOILING POINT
The minimum temperatures that brake fluids will begin to boil when the brake system contains 3% water by volume of the system.

DRY BOILING POINT
The temperatures that brake fluid will boil with no water present in the system.

OK got that there will be a test in the morning.

[snaponbob]

It must be REALLY difficult to formulate brake fluid that doesn't boil at real high temps. That Pegasus chart would certainly lead one to that conclusion, huh?  That said, the Castrol SRF is a LITER container and the Motul RBF 660 is .5 liter. So, there is not a big difference in price per liter.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, he says as he scratches his beard!!!

[lil goat]

Did you know that rubber brake lines will allow water into the brake system through the wall, and the braided steel ones are no better as they are mostly rubber lines inside, you can get braided ones with Teflon lines that will not let water in, I don't even want to think about what they cost. Many times air in the lines is caused by water in the lines boiling and turning to steam, boils at 212 even lower than the cheap brake fluid.

I checked mine the other day at 36,000 miles is is black, meaning is has been hot enough to get burnt. I gonna be a eggspurt on this stuff soon.

[snaponbob]

Good that you checked. Actually, ever since the advent of ABS systems, the master cylinders have effectively "open" to the atmosphere. This is because the master cylinder had to be vented to allow air movement when the ABS is operating. It gets really "busy" in the M/C when the ABS pump is working. I have had vehicles with black brake fluid in as few as 12 months (my Freightliner tool trucks). There are test strips that can be used to check for brake fluid water contamination. My practice is to flush the brake fluid in my vehicles ever 24 months, and the Redline gets done at the end of each Solo season. Real good preventative maintenance.

[lil goat]

Sounds like it will be a spring ritual for me, as I dance around wearing nothing but flowers in my hair I will change my brake fluid, and sing ring around the rosie.