Author Topic: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL  (Read 5309 times)

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Offline SolNut

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Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« on: April 12, 2010, 10:05:47 AM »
Low Boost & No CEL/SEL

2009 GXP Coupe GMPP manual, ~16k miles.  Drove into Albuquerque (5000’ elevation) from Arkansas (600’ elevation), gassed up and parked the car for two (2) days.  Left early Saturday toward home on I-40.  The car would only get to ~5 lbs. boost and would shutter when I let off the accelerator. DashHawk showed misfires on all cylinders, but they all cleared each time.  Stopped after ~50 miles for breakfast, IDLE was at 2000??  Resumed trip east and had the same symptoms until around 100 miles more and everything was back to normal.

First thought were bad gas, the only first tier fuel was only 90 Octane.  But I had run it before at high altitude w/o any problems.

Left Wichita, KS the next morning and the EXACT same thing happened.  Low boost, <5lbs, shuttering when letting off the accelerator and 2K idle.  Stopped for breakfast, and after a hundred miles or so after, everything was back to normal.

I am going to take it in to the Dealer, but sure would like help diagnosing this before I let those MENSA members troubleshoot.  :banghead:

IDEAS????

Thanks - Steve

I am posting this on several Forums to gain a larger audience.  :thumbs:

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 02:14:30 PM »
SolNut,

That is becoming a more and more popular symptom.  Check the posts on the P0101 code.  You may not always throw a code, but it could be any number of things:
1. Intake / IC hose poping off - do you have new clamps everywhere?  GMPP tune increases boost pressure causing failure of stock IC plumbing clamps.  Need 6 T-Bolt clamps to resolve
2. Check the IC itself.  Again, increased boost pressure of tune causing some ICs to fail.  Look for a "fat pig" in your IC
3. MAF sensor dirty
4. Purge valve malfunction
5. Gremlin -(the worst of them all)

If you have a scanner, check and see if there is a "secret code" stored.  I actually had a "C" code stored in mine that wasn't showing.  Not related to this, but it was there and no signs to tell me.  May only be revealed by the dealers Tech II Scanner, but it only takes 10 seconds to check.

GJ
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Offline SolNut

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 02:24:56 PM »
Thanks Jack for the ideas.

I checked the t-bolts on the road (visual).

I'll check the IC, but it would seem to me that since it goes away I am leaning for some mechanical problem with the Pressure side of the turbo.  After the time (miles) is over, it cooks just like normal????  My DashHawk showed Misfires on all cylinders but never set a number in the #Misfires Cell.

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Offline elff

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 03:20:39 PM »
alot of the codes you get for your symptom are listed as pending codes in Rev and Dashcommand.
Clearing them, clears up the issue for me for about 1 month

Offline Mac

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 03:35:33 PM »
I checked the t-bolts on the road (visual).

Not good enough, my bet is the wormdrive hose clamp has failed at the TB to elbo. Even if you tighten it up it will still leak after a a few runs.  This is the 1# thing to go bad and is the cheepest fix as well.  for a few bucks you will know if its #2-5.

When mine did this i checked it with a nut driver, it was more than loose. I tightened up and it came loose in two starts. when they start to fail they even feel tight, but loosen very fast. after a few retries it will completly stripe out.  My thinking why this clamp goes first is: expansion of the rubber elbo under load acts as a lever against the clamp as it ballons under pressure.

Offline SolNut

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »
Tried to get some codes using the DashHawk=it says nothing there.  :banghead:

Checked all of the T-bolt clamps, the one on the Intake manifold was needing some tightening, so I did it. I can see rubber above the clamp, but cannot see the back side. 

Will do some driving tomorrow :thumbs:

and if necessary, off to the Dealership.  :idk:

Thanks for the good tips!

Steve
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 01:51:25 AM »
so you already have the aftermarket clamps?  If not, great chance Mac is 100 percent on.  I thought I tightened the stock ones enough.  Two good hits and pop.  Replace them all.  25 bucks for piece of mind.  If that doesn't do it, move to number two.
If you already have the aftermarket clamps.  Proceed directly to number two.  Do not read this post, do not spend 25 dollars.

GJ
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Offline SolNut

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 12:01:10 PM »
T-bolt clamps have been on for ~10K miles.

TODAY: Moved car from Solstice Den in back yard and turned off engine.  Restarted and drove 1 mile, boost would not go above 6PSI.  Turned off motor, opened hood to see if I could see something in different light.  Nothing found, closed hood, restarted and now the boost is OK:idk:

Drove to the Dealers to see if I could get them to read any codes, too busy for that.   :banghead:  Left there and boost was normal.  Went to grocery store and after about one (1) hour returned home w/o any boost over 6PSI.

Items noticed on my DashHawk were #Missfires went as high as 7, but then cleared?  Individual Missfires were for all four cylinders. Idle was normal.

Steve
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Offline SolNut

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 10:44:26 AM »
P0236 was the code stored by the ECU.   :gaah:

Now GM knows about it.

Steve
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Offline chuckdoc

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 11:20:02 AM »
My friend, listen to Elf, we have had these problems since the GMPP tune, no one has figured it out to date.  It just comes and goes randomly. 

I just live with it.  Sometimes it goes in limp mode, just cruising along for no reason.  May throw a CEL or may not, but it always lives in history.  Sometimes it is just when the car starts after rest, it goes into limp mode.  Next day it is fine for 3 or 4 weeks then happens again.

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Offline Mac

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 02:18:30 PM »
This is a rare condition i think not "normal", there is way to many of these tunes. Mine is about two years and other than the dreaded worm clamps, nada, never a code. BUT i have had issue with knock(yes i have tightened up the waste gate) that wont help, but i lke the way it runs withe gate tighter, but with our stinky 91 they sell as ethel is like pawning pond scum and telling me its 12 year old scotch. I tried every after market octain booster ALL are pond scum.  Put in a tank of sonoco 100unleaded, oh ya now, that smell oh that smell, scotch, on 91 the car was as detuned as it could get/go. Sunoco/reset the battery to clear it, runs like a crack addict going to the dealer for a fix, now i am at 50% sunoco/ 50% pond scum, still runs good no knock. next fill i should be about 25% sunoco and the hot season is about here with the 120+ degree heat, might need to keep it at 50/50. will see.  Boost are from 19-20 in the cool, 20-23hot day, seen 25psi once in high speed pass in 122degree heat of hell.


If its doing some times and not others, sounds like a wire? or a sensor that has a grimlin in it, them damn grimlins are hard to find too.

Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 02:35:56 PM »
Sorry to come into this late, but when Lyndon first tuned my car, I was going into limp mode as soon as I hit over ~15PSI but there was no codes at all. Wouldn't get more than 2-4PSI. I'd shut off the car, and it would be fine until i hit ~15PSI again, same thing over and over.

When I put the "stock" GMPP tune back, it was all good.

(this has now been fixed by Lyndon but isn't relevant)

Your issues sound more like Elf and Chuck's not mine.
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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 02:55:38 PM »
Chuck have you seen a medical professional about your limp condition?  Go-n-deaf is a Navy Corpsman, maybe he can help :poke: :rofl:
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Offline elff

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 03:22:56 PM »
The P0236 is the one Ive gotten most of the time.
As a result I feel it's either a bad sensor or the splice job for the néw pigtails.
This past weekend I removed the butt connectors and soldered the wires.
Because they are cheap, at least cheaper than the amount of time gong to the dealer will cost for them to recreate all of the troubleshooting I have done, I went and bought 2 spare Tmap 3bar sensors.
If I get one of those codes again, I will swap them 1 at a time.
Will keep everyone updated on my losing boost thread

Offline SolNut

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Re: Low Boost & no CEL/SEL
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 05:05:05 PM »
The Dealer gave me his copy of the online Document related to P0236 (1971001).  I also consulted my hardcopy of 2009 M-CAR Service Manual, Volume 2 of 3, Page 9-97 P0236.

A quarter of a century (last) working for a fortune 500 Computer company traveling the Western USA on both hardware and software has given me some incite to these types of problems.  :banghead:

Therefore, I removed all of the tape on the butt connectors used for the installation of the GMPP Upgrade and using my trusty Klein 1000, re-crimped all of them!  I also put black ‘alligator’ plastic covers over this butt connector area and covered them with Scotch Super 88 Vinyl Electrical Tape.  Before re-installing the connectors I applied a small (RCH) amount of dielectric compound.  I also applied dielectric compound on the MAF connector.  :thumbs:

Good News-Not Great=>>All systems are working correctly so there isn’t a TIT (Technician Induced Trouble) YET!  :yay:

Take Care-Your Mileage may vary.

Steve