Author Topic: Smoke coming from your tailpipe - must read!!! (Read 62372 times)

kennysabarese · « **Reply #25 on:** August 10, 2010, 02:59:35 PM »

Oh. I dunno. I'll have to look in person. I'd rather not drill a hole in the IC.

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:19:53 PM »

So the question then becomes, how much oil is too much? We have established the some oil is going to appear in the intake as a result of the new enviro friendly system of recapturing the purged vapors, but too much will cause major issues. Much like Kenny, I have some oil in the intake and at the entrance to the turbo. That probably means there is some in the IC. Over time, more and more will build up in the IC since there is now way to drain it. This may cause the IC to fail, or it may not do anything at all.

Are there any answers?

Treeman · « **Reply #27 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:33:34 PM »

Quote from: Gentleman Jack aka Bubble Gum on August 10, 2010, 03:19:53 PM

So the question then becomes, how much oil is too much? We have established the some oil is going to appear in the intake as a result of the new enviro friendly system of recapturing the purged vapors, but too much will cause major issues. Much like Kenny, I have some oil in the intake and at the entrance to the turbo. That probably means there is some in the IC. Over time, more and more will build up in the IC since there is now way to drain it. This may cause the IC to fail, or it may not do anything at all.

Are there any answers?

Good question. But this is not a "new enviro friendly system". PCV systems have been around, and have had problems, since the early 70s. Turbos have been around in production cars since the mid-70s. What probably is new is the level of boost we have and how much we are milking the limits, thanks to DI and computers. I wonder though if there is experience from the diesel world that helps....

kennysabarese · « **Reply #28 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:44:40 PM »

This is how I feel about it so far. If it's just near the turbo you are probably fine. If you have oil throughout the intake and in your PCV valve it is probably not good. Clean the PCV and see if it makes a difference. If it comes back replace it. If it comes back again, replace the whole line? If it comes back again something else is wrong? (not sure about those last two)

Also if you have KR develop over time and are using good gas and in not so hot temperatures, you probably have an issue.

Check your oil if it's really overfilled it's more likely to go where it shouldn't.

To be safe, get one catch can, to be anal, get two.

You can drain the IC. If someone can look at the bottom of the stock IC to see if there is a way to drain it without drilling cool. I will inspect it when I get home. Worst case is to follow Lyndon's directions and drill it. Maybe you can take it off and lean it on it's side and the oil will drip out. Probably a lot harder than drilling.

Do you need the fuel line disconnect tool to remove the just the PCV or is it only for removing the entire line? I did some searching and see a few different versions of the tool. Can someone recommend one that I can get asap?

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #29 on:** August 10, 2010, 03:58:42 PM »

The fuel disconnect tool will only get it off the valve cover. You can clean it with it installed on the braded hose. There isn't any space on the PCV end to remove it using the tool. I think it has to be cut off and then use the tool to get the pieces out and insert the new valve.

We may have to pull the IC to clean it. What solvent do you recommend?

Yogi · « **Reply #30 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:09:42 PM »

The whole premise of this thread is that oil vapors in the intake will cause detonation. Has anyone heard this before? I'm not saying Lyndon is wrong, just that I've never heard it before.

The PCV system is designed to suck vapors from the crankcase, so it seems like the danger of detonation would be ever-present. Does that seem right? I'm thinking that a second opinion from another source, like DDM, might be a good idea before we all tear our PCV systems apart.

Treeman · « **Reply #31 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:21:54 PM »

Good thought, although the amount of oil Kenny is talking about is not good. Supposed to be vapors, not fluid. Also, my thought about checking with the diesel world was silly - that works by detonation - DOH!!!

Rethinking this a bit, someone talked about the added valve to counteract boost pressure on one side of the PCV valve against crankcase pressure on the other. I wonder if this is tied to increases in boost pressure beyond the spec of the valve? What worries me with that is that ChuckDoc had just the GMPP, not the full Westers.

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:24:07 PM »

Well, oil is just a step down from diesel fuel, and we all know about how that likes to auto ignite...

kennysabarese · « **Reply #33 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:30:10 PM »

Quote from: DeepBlueGXP on August 10, 2010, 03:58:42 PM

The fuel disconnect tool will only get it off the valve cover. You can clean it with it installed on the braded hose. There isn't any space on the PCV end to remove it using the tool. I think it has to be cut off and then use the tool to get the pieces out and insert the new valve.

Good to know, I was going to buy the tool. For now I am just gunna clean the PCV since I won't get a new one in time for this weekend at the track.

Quote from: DeepBlueGXP on August 10, 2010, 03:58:42 PM

We may have to pull the IC to clean it. What solvent do you recommend?

Lyndon recommended drilling the IC at the lowest point to let the oil drain out and to actually drive with it and the pressure will push it out. I quoted his method on page one of this thread.

He did not mention removing it and using a solvent, so I have no recommendation there. I'm sure the drilling method will be much easier than removing it all.

Treeman · « **Reply #34 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:30:43 PM »

Quote from: Treeman on August 10, 2010, 04:21:54 PM

Rethinking this a bit, someone talked about the added valve to counteract boost pressure on one side of the PCV valve against crankcase pressure on the other. I wonder if this is tied to increases in boost pressure beyond the spec of the valve? What worries me with that is that ChuckDoc had just the GMPP, not the full Westers.

Actually, that would blow it back into the crankcase, not out into the intake, so I will hush. No good ideas here!
Ac

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #35 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:32:42 PM »

If you look at the PCV valve, there is an arrow pointing to the valve cover and the word FLOW so no oil should be sucking into the intake.

spicy3480 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 10, 2010, 04:40:29 PM »

Do you think someone will make a catch-can solution for our cars...this can be a very worrisome issue!!!

chuckdoc · « **Reply #37 on:** August 10, 2010, 05:08:10 PM »

Cleaning is silly, just buy a new one for 7 bucks. Buy from sponsor
When car hits 50,000 miles and save it, I bought two so if anyone
Else needs one, it's at joes house.

We tried cleaning and it worked for around 4 miles.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #38 on:** August 10, 2010, 05:33:45 PM »

Quote from: chuckdoc on August 10, 2010, 05:08:10 PM

Cleaning is silly, just buy a new one for 7 bucks. Buy from sponsor
When car hits 50,000 miles and save it, I bought two so if anyone
Else needs one, it's at joes house.

We tried cleaning and it worked for around 4 miles.

I'll try a dealer, I'm driving to the track thursday afternoon. Driving on the track friday morning

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 10, 2010, 06:15:54 PM »

Dealer made me buy the valve and the braided line, cost $30 when I got mine.

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #40 on:** August 10, 2010, 06:24:07 PM »

Anything left at my house becomes mine

chuckdoc · « **Reply #41 on:** August 10, 2010, 06:29:34 PM »

If you just want to have one, call http://www.shopgmaccessories.com/ just give them a call.

7 bucks. (plus shipping)

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #42 on:** August 10, 2010, 07:08:58 PM »

Quote from: DeepBlueGXP on August 10, 2010, 04:32:42 PM

If you look at the PCV valve, there is an arrow pointing to the valve cover and the word FLOW so no oil should be sucking into the intake.

So if there is any oil in the intake or beyond the PCV valve, it is a bad thing?

I must have confused myself. Could someone please explain what the valve is for? I thought it was a way to purge fumes from the engine and recycle them back in to the intake so they can be reburned? But if the valve goes the other way, then what is it for? This might be time for goolge....

GJ

chuckdoc · « **Reply #43 on:** August 10, 2010, 07:53:37 PM »

Sometimes valve sticks open, sometimes it sticks closed. Both cause different symptoms.

That's all I know. I think part of it's function is to bring air in to mix with unburned gases but if it sticks open it can let oil out. Wait, that does not make sense to me either.

Ok, how the heck does it work. Where is shabby, or Joe or even kelu. Do they have pollution control over there? Kelu?

Critterman · « **Reply #44 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:14:44 PM »

Even at 30 bucks it is cheap insurance. watch how full you fill you car after a you change your oil. High revs will push more oil at the valve. BUT it should only be vapors passing by the valve not an oil liquid.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #45 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:15:26 PM »

PCV VALVE allows air INTO the crankcase and is meant to stop air from going out in that direction. If you look at the valve the arrow points towards the engine.

The other braided line which goes from the front of the engine to the turbo is for allowing air out of the crankcase.

Here's a pic to explain.

[attachment=1]

On another note there's no way to easily look at the bottom of the IC to inspect it or drill it. There is a piece attached to the bumper that can be removed so the entire bumper does not have to be removed.

shabby · « **Reply #46 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »

Quote from: chuckdoc on August 10, 2010, 07:53:37 PM

I think part of it's function is to bring air in to mix with unburned gases but if it sticks open it can let oil out. Wait, that does not make sense to me either.

The pcv valve is under vacuum when its pulling in fresh it, when there's pressure in the crankcase the valve is shut and doesn't allow anything to bypass it unless its stuck open.
Did a new pcv valve solve the problem or did you just order it?

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 10, 2010, 08:56:29 PM »

Quote from: Critterman on August 10, 2010, 08:14:44 PM

Even at 30 bucks it is cheap insurance.

But it failed within TWO WEEKS!

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #48 on:** August 11, 2010, 01:12:23 AM »

Quote from: Kenny on August 10, 2010, 08:15:26 PM

PCV VALVE allows air INTO the crankcase and is meant to stop air from going out in that direction. If you look at the valve the arrow points towards the engine.

The other braided line which goes from the front of the engine to the turbo is for allowing air out of the crankcase.

Here's a pic to explain.

[attachment=1]

On another note there's no way to easily look at the bottom of the IC to inspect it or drill it. There is a piece attached to the bumper that can be removed so the entire bumper does not have to be removed.

Kenny,

Thank you! I get it now. The question then becomes, why do you and I, and others, have oil in the intake? It sure appears to me to be coming from the PCV valve. Is that an automatic sign that the valve has gone bad? Going to have to come up with a solution (see catch can thread for a possibility)

GJ

kennysabarese · « **Reply #49 on:** August 11, 2010, 08:03:44 AM »

Yes it's coming from the PCV. That's what this entire thread is about.

Check your oil to see if it's overfilled. I want to see if I'm the only one who has overfilled the oil and gotten a dirty PCV or if it happens even with normal oil levels.

News:

Author Topic: Smoke coming from your tailpipe - must read!!! (Read 62372 times)