Topic: LNF Kappa (Opel GT) with nitrous

[DeepBlueGXP]

Why didn't you mount the bottle all the way back so you sould still put your top down?

[Arabas]

Why didn't you mount the bottle all the way back so you sould still put your top down?

nice observation DBG !!
didn t think of that....
no topless now Kelu?

[Kelu]

Thank you SKY888, I always log my car in cases like this, I logged last night in firsts test, I logged today on the dyno, logs are looking perfect.

The dyno: - ALL these values ARE at the flywheel
Ok so I went to the greek local tuner dyno, I already did a dyno there about a year ago:
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=3422.0
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Back than I did a 312 hp and 530 Nm (390 lbs-ft),

Today initial run was done without nitrous and the plot was overlay with the old sheet:
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This is the new run without nitrous:
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As you can see the values are pretty good, since last dyno I did only a tune update, no other performance mods, I lost 0.7hp and gained 18.2 Nm (13 lbs-ft).
Because of higher overboost looks like my torque is not so stable anymore.

Than we started to spray it, first run spray only from 4000rpm up to 6000rpm to be sure the operator will not hit the rev limiter which is dangerous on nitrous.
New numbers: 360hp and 549Nm (404 lbs-ft)
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Next run, spray from 3500rpm up to 6500rpm, new numbers 377hp and 626 Nm (461 lbs-ft)
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Here are the both runs under nitrous:
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First run (without nitrous) vs second run (short shot):
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These runs were done with 0.035" nistrous jet and 0.020" fuel jet which is quoted for a 50hp shot by NX site (http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Instructions/sportcompact09.pdf), we got 65hp and we stopped the session because we achieved the targeted gains. No need to push more, I will add some safety features in future and than push it more, notice we did all these runs with cold bottle (around estimated 60F) and normally a bottle needs to be around 100-120F to have a proper nitrous pressure (950-1100psi) so a lot more power is available from this setup.

At this moment not sure why the torque plot is so waveish, I checked the logs and they look good, read AFR perfectly matching commanded AFR, no knock, ETC 100%, STFT looking normally, I would blame the low pressure of the nitrous. Normally nitrous should give a perfect straight torque because the added mix is always constant but a low pressure nitrous bottle might cause this, still not 100% sure about this.

I will updated the sheets when I will receive them from the dyno owner and working to upload some videos which I will post them here soon.

[Kelu]

Why didn't you mount the bottle all the way back so you sould still put your top down?

Even mounted way back the top couldn't be folded, they made the brackets easily removable, I will not spray with top down

[Arabas]

nice numbers Kelu 
is the torque and hp line supposed to have so many fluctuations when spraying?

[Yogi]

Impressive results, Kelu!   

Way to go!   

[SKY888]

377hp and 626 Nm (461 lbs-ft)  

Kelu,  are those flywheel numbers?  or whp/wtq?


big increase compared to your "regular tune", huh?

congrats!

[Kelu]

SKY888:

The dyno: - ALL these values ARE at the flywheel

Arabas:

At this moment not sure why the torque plot is so waveish, I checked the logs and they look good, read AFR perfectly matching commanded AFR, no knock, ETC 100%, STFT looking normally, I would blame the low pressure of the nitrous. Normally nitrous should give a perfect straight torque because the added mix is always constant but a low pressure nitrous bottle might cause this, still not 100% sure about this.

 

[Arabas]

i promise i will read more carefully from now on...

[SKY888]

so if you remove 18% drivetrain loss

it will be around 309 whp and 378 ft-lbs


damn kelu.........that torque is awesome!!!!  

[Kelu]

If you want to talk about values at the wheels I can tell you the values:
- when I had 312bhp it was 278whp
- when I did 360bhp/549Nm there was 321whp and 503 wNm (370 ft-lbs at the wheels) - you will see these values on the videos because the operator was switching between engine/wheels values (check out 2nd video)

They measure drivetrain loss by letting the car decelerate itself and measure the inertia but I consider a 12% drivetrain loss as their dyno states way too less for our cars.
I consider your calculations more accurate 

First run 311 bhp - 546 Nm (402 ft-lbs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvUTMPAuF4U


Second run 360hp and 549Nm (404 lbs-ft):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aNrxuesu9k


Third run 377hp and 626 Nm (461 lbs-ft)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtXEdn4KcI0

[Brazen17]

Way to go Kelu.  Your gonna kick some ass on the drag strip!

[LatinVenom]

Kelu those numbers do not compute correctly.
SKY888 we should stick with the 17% drive train power lost.
Kelu in your numbers of 312BHP and 278 RWHP you are saying that the power lost is only 12%.
If we use the GM 260BHP and 216 RWHP as shown in a lot of Dyno runs of stock cars the number is really 17%.
If we apply the 278 RWHP then your BHP at the fly wheel is more like 334 BHP.
Now if you feel the 312 BHP is the correct number then your true RWHP is around 259 RWHP and not 278 RWHP.
The nitrous gains are excellent, however I am still concern about your drive train setup, and believe your GT's rear end will be too tail happy when you hit the bottle, hope I am wrong and good luck.

[kennysabarese]

GUYS... PLEASE DON'T START A POWERTRAIN LOSS DISCUSSION

if i see another one i will carve my eyes out with a spoon

[SKY888]

if i see another one i will carve my eyes out with a spoon

that's gonna hurt kenny!!!   


Kelu.......do you have a blow-down tube for your nitrous bottle?

[MEGAS]

Great torque Kelu...!
it was really impressive that spraying in lower rpms net you higher gains..!
i hope nos is really gonna help you out in drag races and not cause you any troubles like driving distraction etc..

keep up the good work..

[Kelu]

Brazen17: Thank you, being first time I don't expect big gains, I'm more interested in a smooth functionality which will allow me to advance in future, about gains I only want to see a real difference between not spraying and with nos as I did with dyno where I could get bigger numbers and maybe better plots but I didn't push it.
My target for this race is only a 0.2-0.3s difference in ET between without nitrous and with nitrous

Even I raced at this weekend location about 3-4 times in last 2 years, this is first time when we will have a professional timing system so my predictions about ET are not properly now. But this is for another topic.

LatinVenom: That was exactly what I was saying, I don't like their drivetrain loss measurements, I consider their flywheel numbers pretty good. In my opinion our cars have a 17-18% drivetrain loss so my values at the wheels are lower than they say.

I don't think my GT will be tail happy on nitrous because I will spray ONLY in 3rd and 4th gear between 3500-7000rpm maximum, in this range I'm sure there is not traction loss, on the street tests I didn't had any problems.

MEGAS: You are pretty spot on, this race I will want only to see it is working, big gains are scheduled in future when I will have many safety features in nitrous system which will allow me for a bigger range when I spray

[Kagem]

Great numbers Kelu, well done my friend! I hope everything goes as you've planned....

[Arabas]

as you can understand Kelu, USA, Canada and Greece are your supporting team!!! 
so here's a toast to you and your nitro project!



 

PS: now, i don t wnat to race you anymore...

[Kelu]

Malaka, thank you for being my supporter   nice song  


P.S. I knew you will never race me, you were a  malaka since the beginning, this thing with nitrous is just an occasion which you can use to avoid a race against me  

[Arabas]

 

[MEGAS]

LOL  LOL  LOL...Kelu you censored the word before "malaka" and not the "malaka" word..???
xaxaaxaxax ..
arab please explain to kelu what is malaka..!

[Kelu]

I think I know what malaka means, I didn't censored any word, looks like the forum script does that but I don't see it, maybe because I'm LSM.

[DeepBlueGXP]

Great job Kelu.   Is your redline increased via westers to 7300 like mine?    How do you control the shots?   Do you have a cut off switch when you press in the clutch so you don't blow the motor?

[Kelu]

Yes, my redline is 7300rpm from Wester, at least this is what I see in HPT.
Control of the shots for the moment is at a push button (open trunk button mounted next to the ESC button - see above picture) in future I plan to use progressive controller with different stages for each gear (except 1st gear and maybe 2nd), window switch which will spray automatically.
I wired the nitrous system using a WOT Box cable which cuts the ignition, so when ignition cut is activated my spray will be cut off instantly. Also ordered a cable from WOT Box which will prevent also the rpm window besides moments when WOT Box cuts ignition.