Author Topic: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?  (Read 49290 times)

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Offline Arabas

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2010, 02:53:25 PM »
How much is a replacement LNF?
interesting question... looking forward to a reply
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Offline NormSky

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2010, 03:35:08 PM »
Used LNF run about $1500-1800 with a quick search on ebay.
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Offline NormSky

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Offline TurboDynasty

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2010, 03:57:49 PM »
LE5 2.4 goes for $399-599 for complete engine take out used. Some on the big forum bought extra engine and transmission when adding a turbo to the 2.4...still have them since buying them as back in 2006!  :)
Good to hear of such turbocharged durability ;)
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Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2010, 04:08:09 PM »
Just trying to compare a new LNF to a LS3 new price listed about.  The LNF on ebay above is in a wrecked car and there appears to a large oil spill under it.  Another used LNF already pulled is available for $2500.00.

Found it on GMPartsGiant for $3997.54 new.

So for a couple more grand, you have a 400 hp V8.  That's easy to justify.

Offline HAMMER DOWN

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2010, 04:49:00 PM »
Their is no justification :banghead:, the V8 has more power then the car can use  :brnout:. So it comes down to passion.  Depending on your time , money & skill. Just do it  :thumbs:, if that's where your hart is. :brnout: :drag: :crazy:

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Here's to many rides with the top down, wind in your hair & the  hammer down.  :drag: :brnout: :drive:

Offline Critterman

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2010, 05:25:06 PM »
If you have to ask...........
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Offline NormSky

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2010, 08:24:27 PM »
It's a used car, why add new parts?! 

If you've pulled an engine before you know it's next to impossible to keep a dry garage floor. :)
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Offline idkfa

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2011, 11:49:34 PM »
Easily.  I'll eventually blow the LE5 and will find a good deal on a nice ls1 or something to rebuild.  Now that there's a harness kit, it's an easy choice.

Offline spider

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2011, 12:21:01 AM »
I'm on my second LNF @ 50K. I think a LS3,4 or 5 might just last a wee bit longer.

Offline spider

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2011, 01:20:42 PM »
I haven't blown 2 engines, yet. The first one came with the car.You & I are running a tune, so you may well answer your own question.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 03:46:34 PM by spider »

Offline sbindley

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2011, 07:13:38 PM »
Interesting thread.  I can answer the original questions from my own perspective.  I always liked the Solstice and was particularly interested in the thought of the V8 swap once I read about the first Malletts.  I even looked online for cheap and clean 2.4's to possibly buy and do the conversion.  I never pulled the trigger though as I have never been fond of soft top convertibles.  And then the coupe was announced.  I have always preferred a targa design over a full vert or coupe.  And I liked the look of the Solstice Coupe better than the vert with the tops on or off.  When I saw what was being done with fairly simple mods to the 2.0, I chose to go that route when I began looking for the GXP Coupe just after GM announced they were killing Pontiac and closing the Wilmington plant. My choice of mods (installed at Perf Autowerks) included a big wheel turbo, Werks i/c, Solo high flow cat and exhaust, big radiator and a Trifecta tune on top of the GM Perf tune/parts.  The result was 326 whp on a "safe" tune -- call it a 7/10ths tune to handle AZ temps and 91 octane.  My low-high boost goes from 19 to 24 at a push of a button.  Car runs great, sounds great, has never thrown a CEL and is plenty fast. I only have to contend with 20-30 seconds of wonky idle at cold startup (from the big wheel turbo). It was all good. 

For two years. 

So, now, the car is driven occasionally and i still love it.  It still runs great, sounds great and is no slower.  But my daily driver went from a supercharged FJ Cruiser to a Pontiac G8 GXP with an LS3.  A set of headers, cats, exhaust and intake easily pushed the flywheel power to around 475.  Power and torque are everywhere.  And that sound...  As they sat side by side, I couldn't help thinking what the LS3 would be like if it slid a few feet over into the GXP.  A project for another day, I thought.

And then Perf Autowerks contacted me about using the vehicle for their live install at the Nationals and the installed price instantly dropped by 20%, which is significant.  PA is already many thousands less expensive than their competition by paying for the core pieces.  Plus, I'm selling my mildly used mod parts, which brings the final price tag down even more. 

I will admit that I never felt like the car needed more power.  In fact, 90 percent of the driving I did was on the low boost setting.  But the draw of the V8 was still very strong.  When the car is completed, I will see around 70-100 whp, with the addition of only 150 or so pounds, and a better front-rear weight distribution (and no wonky idle at startup).  If I was into racing around cones in a parking lot, I would have kept my 93 LE Miata with the 1.6 -- you know the one -- black with the red leather interior and BBS wheels (and oh, well, I guess I did put a supercharger on it, but it was still light and sprightly, just faster).  If anything, I'd love to get some proper instruction on a nice, long road course in the LS3 Sol.

Additionally, I should add that I will go from very exclusive (1 of 350 or so GXP Coupe 5-speeds) to very, very exclusive (1 of 3 or so V8 Coupe 6-speeds).  Modded versus bubble wrapped resale value is a fight for another thread.  I was already modded beyond that issue with the 2.0 stuff, wheels and tan leather interior changes.  My price justification lies in the fact that I would prefer to have this car than a Boxter S or Cayman or SLK55 or M Roadster or Z06 or ZR1 or 911 Turbo or Ferrari California or anything else.  Just more my style.  I love the look on people's faces when I tell them "It's a Pontiac."  I can never quite tell if they are surprised or disappointed.   And living here in Phoenix, if I ever decide to sell, it is a short hop over to Barrett Jackson where this kind of thing tends to find emotional buyers with deep pockets.  I think at worst, I would do better with it on a percentage basis than if I had just left it stock and put the same amount of miles on it.  I might even turn a profit.  And I'm having a lot more fun driving it and updating it to my style and preference as the years go by.   

So, in a long winded way, that is my answer as to why I am pulling out a perfectly good 2.0, modded to over 350 flywheel hp and putting in a new LS3 with over 450 flywheel hp.  To each his own, certainly.

But, I can't wait 'til June.

Offline boardkat

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2011, 07:22:28 PM »
ah, so *you're* the one that pulled the trigger, eh? :)
i seriously considered their nats LS3 swap price for my sly gxp coupe, it was almost too good to pass up.  but i've got a lot of other things on my plate right now, so i just couldn't justify it.  i'll probably join ya in a few years though.  june definitely can't get here fast enough for ya i bet!
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Offline NormSky

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2011, 07:27:01 PM »
What transmission to go with your 450 hp?  :)
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2011, 07:33:53 PM »
The one thing I would like to bring to your attention is as follows.
326 WHP is more like 391 BHP at the flywheel.
Also before you get rid of the 2.0, try to get a few 1/4 runs and see what your time and speed will be.
Once you get the V8 conversion then do the same and see what the actual improvement is with the LS3.
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Offline wspohn

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2011, 07:51:29 PM »
The one thing I would like to bring to your attention is as follows.
326 WHP is more like 391 BHP at the flywheel.
Also before you get rid of the 2.0, try to get a few 1/4 runs and see what your time and speed will be.
Once you get the V8 conversion then do the same and see what the actual improvement is with the LS3.

Excellent idea - we can never have enough hard data!
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Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2011, 07:54:23 PM »
Welcome to the forum.  Quite a first post.  Can't wait to see pics on it since I won't make it to nationals this year.

Offline DaveOC

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2011, 08:03:31 PM »
Sounds like you finally worked out the details with PA.  Welcome to this forum, and take lots of pictures at the Nationals.

 :thumbs: :yay:
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Offline sbindley

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2011, 08:15:04 PM »
Tremec T-56 tranny. Won't likely make it to 1/4 for before and after.  Assume all that data is out there already.  As has been previously stated, tires and traction would play a huge role in those numbers (and weather and track, etc.)  PA says the base LS3 package runs "easy mid-12's," and that is without the added power from dual exhaust and custom tune, so I guess low 12's then?...  Same old story.  The LS7 they are building now will be only a bit quicker.  Or an LSA or LS9...

My 350+ flywheel on the 2.0 might be higher.  But the 326 dyno was on 93 octane with more boost and a more aggressive tune.  Before they shipped the car to me, they dropped a couple pounds of boost and dialed back the tune for the 91 octane and heat issues here.  And the LS3 in my G8 really responded to the simple bolt-ons and a custom tune, so I assume I will make gains with a high flow cat, a true dual exhaust and a custom dyno tune on my LS3 Sol.  Apples to apples, on the same dyno, PA says my rwhp will go from the low 300's to the high 300's, so 75-90 rwhp (likely over 100 flywheel).


Offline sbindley

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2011, 08:17:09 PM »
BTW, I am not going to Nats.  Just the car.  For those going, take lots of pics and video.  I'll be following online.

Offline Critterman

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2011, 08:43:43 PM »
Just to let you know, sbindley, I hate you all ready. :)  Let's hope they do take a  lot of pictures so we don't want Kelu to have to make one of his famous posts.

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Offline Buzzardt

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2011, 09:22:55 PM »
Why would I need to Justify it ? It's my car. It's my money.End of decision process.

Offline Critterman

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2011, 10:15:33 AM »
Sounds like you aren't married Buzz
GONE: (but not forgotten) 2006 Cool named IXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"
DDM StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs, Ported and polished head, Exedy Stage II Clutch,
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice, Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace Underhood, trunk, & door Lights, ZOK suspension
JPM Center console, door inserts, & dash Seat bolster & lumbar support
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Offline Buzzardt

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2011, 03:26:58 PM »
Married 44 yrs. I know what I can and can't get away with.LOL

Offline Critterman

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Re: How would (do?) you justify replacing 2.0 for LS3?
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2011, 04:21:01 PM »
I've only been married 37 and I too know what I can get away with, I would have to break my current motor first, and then be all gloom and doom before I could get away with the V8.  :)
GONE: (but not forgotten) 2006 Cool named IXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"
DDM StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs, Ported and polished head, Exedy Stage II Clutch,
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice, Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace Underhood, trunk, & door Lights, ZOK suspension
JPM Center console, door inserts, & dash Seat bolster & lumbar support
Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat, Solo Performance SQR-2, Norm's Rear facia, Heated Seats, Blackface gau