Topic: Need some guidance from the experts - white smoke from exhaust

[spider]

Agreed 10%. Another compression check with a squirt of oil in the cylinder will raise the compression if its a ring issue, not if its valves or head gasket. Might be time to start reverting to stock...

[Critterman]

30 lbs is a big diference in ajoining cylenders.  spider has the right idea.  See were you stand then.

[DeepBlueGXP]

I agree with Critter and spider, if the placing oil in cyl 1 increases pressure for you, then your turbo may be good.  What does plug 1 look like compared to the others?

[snaponbob]

Adding to that, was the test done with the throttle plate open? It DOES matter. And, #1 is too low. When the plugs were pulled, how did the #1 plug look compared to the other three?

[jws0318]

Based on everyone's comments about the compression test, I wqent to a performance shop and had them look at it.  The bottom of cylinder #1 is wet.  Scoped the piston and the top is ok, but they suspect one of the lower rings is trashed.  Did a leak test on that cylinder and it failed miserably.  That's where my oil is coming from.  

So now I guess I bolt back on the stock parts and try to get gm to cover it.  Charge pipes, Cai, intercooler, hi flow cat, plus a ecu flash.  I was thinking of not switching the intercooler and telling them the factory one took a rock so I replaced it.  Do you think that's ok?  Anyone have experience with getting them to cover this?  Just curious what kind of battle I'm in for.  

Worst case scenario they don't cover it.  What can I expect to pay to have it rebuilt ?  Any ideas?

[kennysabarese]

I don't think they can blame things like the IC and pipes and hi flow cat on this problem, but I understand you don't want to get into an argument about Magnuson Moss act either.

Tough choice.

Oh, they may say that the hiflow cat makes the engine out of warranty. So maybe swap that one.

[Critterman]

Okay my thoughts on this and they may not be popular.

You want to play - you got to pay.

Be up front don't remove anything, tell the dealer what you have done and let them make the decision, if it is not warranteed so be it, get a quote.  Then shop around.  Make your decision based on that.

[Brad Kenny]

Okay my thoughts on this and they may not be popular.

You want to play - you got to pay.

Be up front don't remove anything, tell the dealer what you have done and let them make the decision, if it is not warranteed so be it, get a quote.  Then shop around.  Make your decision based on that.

First of all, sorry for your misfortune.

  I am Critter on this one! I would never think of reverting all the suspension and parts just to get my dealership to do "warranty" repairs... It's wasn't stock when it broke, so... take your chances. You might be surprised!

My local dealership has already told me that as long as I do not do anything "crazy" (NOS, etc) that they would try to help me the best they can.  We even discussed Forced Induction vice my NA and after-market tuning.  They are willing to cover most modifications as long as it is not being "raced" at the time of failure. (>stock redline) It all depends on how good of a relationship you have with your service manager/dealership.

Remember: It is hours and money for them to do the swap/rebuild. It costs them nothing, all put out by GM. However, GM requires paperwork to release parts and labor money to do the work. SO... like everyone else says, it's up to the dealer/shop (and their level of integrity)

[LatinVenom]

This definitely a warranty issue. Mods or not the ring(s) on piston #1 failed.
If it was not for us here telling him to do a compression test, the dealer would have end up trying to change the turbo.
 

[Dave@DDMworks]

First of all, sorry for your misfortune.

  I am Critter on this one! I would never think of reverting all the suspension and parts just to get my dealership to do "warranty" repairs... It's wasn't stock when it broke, so... take your chances. You might be surprised!

My local dealership has already told me that as long as I do not do anything "crazy" (NOS, etc) that they would try to help me the best they can.  We even discussed Forced Induction vice my NA and after-market tuning.  They are willing to cover most modifications as long as it is not being "raced" at the time of failure. (>stock redline) It all depends on how good of a relationship you have with your service manager/dealership.

Remember: It is hours and money for them to do the swap/rebuild. It costs them nothing, all put out by GM. However, GM requires paperwork to release parts and labor money to do the work. SO... like everyone else says, it's up to the dealer/shop (and their level of integrity)

We have suggested this to a lot of customers, talk to the dealer that you work with and be upfront with them, let them know before you make the mods to the car and see what they think before hand, that way if something does go wrong like this, then you have a general idea of how they are going to react.

Considering that you changed the intake, tune, tubes and intercooler on the car there is a very good chance that the mods you made may have caused the failure of the engine.

As for pulling off everything and returning it to stock to see if they will warranty it, that is a personal decision that you have to make. It is a real bummer that your engine has been damaged, but going back to the dealer and not giving them the full information and asking for them to pay to fix it does not seem right either. I have to agree with Critter and some of the others here, if you want to play, you have to be willing to pay. If you want factory warranty, run factory parts. If you want to make the big numbers then be willing to take what may come with that.

If you do need some help though getting the engine back together, pointers or advise, do not hesitate to ask.

[2.0 tspeed]

As the way I see it we all own a peice of gm for bailing them out I guess everybody forgets that. Look it's 9 grand intotal to replace motor if you have the money good if you don't your screwed. Take it off and back to stock good luck.
We bailed gm out = get a motor for free

[Arabas]

if you can have the engine replaced under warranty, i say do it.
if dealer denies to replace it or fix it under warranty, then see it as a chance to upgrade internals.
sorry to hear this happened....
hope you get it fixed with minimum cost...

[spider]

Depending how hungry the dealership is (since warranty work pays less to the dealership & the mechanic) replace ECU flash, cat, & if you have it, the original air cleaner. If its done under warranty they will throw in a new engine, not rebuild it. If you treat them nice you will also have a better chance at warranty. Letting them know your uncle/brother that owns a nice shop near your house was the one to discover the problem & also said that the ecotecs are prone to piston issues...  that way they will know they likely won't get your money if its not done under warranty & that you know they are prone to piston ring issues. Since your lying about your personal mechanic make sure & hold good eye contact.
 Pay to play-- new engine can be had for $4K used about $ 2500 A couple phone calls for remove & replace (R&R) cost & labor rate. The rebuilding problem is getting a realistic  labor & parts quote & that rounding up all the backordered parts can drag the project into just that-- a dragging------oh, special tools----the also should do this, ack-- more back ordered parts...the possible scenarios are endless..Um, too pessimistic, sorry, good luck with your dilemma.

[Graywolf]

My engine put out white smoke and it was a blown piston and some broken lifters [followers ] Hope your problem is minor. They did not cover my engine with warranty. Maybe it was the rollbar and race numbers on the car etc. If you have not had a aftermarket tune on your car and put back all parts to oem you may get coverage. However if your ecm has been retuned and then erased back to stock they can see a blip on your ecm history which voids your warranty.

[tazz]

However if your ecm has been retuned and then erased back to stock they can see a blip on your ecm history which voids your warranty.

The only history that is earsed is the emmission test and tranny learning and that can actually be explained by a loss of power by disconnecting the battery cables for a period of time or even removing fuses from the main fuse box.  You could also drive the car around for a few days more with the stock ECM program if drivable to complete all emissions test and then take it in for service .  This was discussed on HPT with several members taking in there reflashed to stock ECU with no problems even after the dealer said they checked to see if the ECU was flashed back and they could not tell any difference.  You MUST do an Entire rewrite to stock so everything is set back to stock even the ECU flash counter if you don't then there could be trouble. 
Get ahold of Gmtech to get more info on the subject he will enlighten you more if need be.

[Arabas]

AFAIK, if you got an aftermarket tune and then flash it back to stock, it can not be detected.

[SKY888]

AFAIK, if you got an aftermarket tune and then flash it back to stock, it can not be detected.

I think Trifecta tune is the only one that can be "invisible"......the rest will be detected.

[Arabas]

I think Trifecta tune is the only one that can be "invisible"......the rest will be detected.

the above is confirmed 100% (witnessed it)

there is no clock/date counter on the ecm, so it is possible that no tune can be detected once the ecm has been flashed back to stock, but cannot be sure about that...

[Kelu]

I think Trifecta tune is the only one that can be "invisible"......the rest will be detected.

If you perform a full write (arg I forgot the exact term) from HTP it can't be detected afaik.

[SKY888]

If you perform a full write (arg I forgot the exact term) from HTP it can't be detected afaik.

i think you're talking about "write entire"?

gotcha!

I never bothered going back to the original tune everytime I go to my Saturn Dealer............due to obvious reasons!  lol

[SKY888]

this is confirmed 100% (witnessed it)
there is no clock/date counter on the ecm, so it is possible that no tune can be detected once the ecm has been flashed back to stock, but cannot be sure about that...

thats good to know! 

[Yogi]

I forget what it's called but there is a 'flash counter' that increments each time that the ECM is reflashed.  If GM wants to look deep enough, they can find it.  

[Arabas]

I forget what it's called but there is a 'flash counter' that increments each time that the ECM is reflashed.  If GM wants to look deep enough, they can find it. 

maybe you are 100% right. can not doubt you.
but i know of a tuned ecm, flashed back to stock and sent to GM headquarters for check.
GM said it was bone stock, never tuned.

anyway, i hope nobody gets to the point that his ecm will be sent to GM headquarters for check...

[tazz]

There is a flash counter that counts the # of times the ECM has been flashed BUT........If you do and ENTIRE WRITE with HPT you set the counter back to the Original Stock setting.  This is because the whole ECM is reflashed back to stock not just the portion that you or your tuner altered.  If you only use the WRITE CALIBRATION ONLY this does not reset the flash counter and if taken to GM headquarters they will be able to tell.  
YOU MUST DO AN ENTIRE WRITE NOT A WRITE CALIBRATION!!!

[Kelu]

thx for confirming tazz