Author Topic: Too many LNF's failing (Read 23289 times)

Arabas · « **on:** July 06, 2011, 02:09:34 AM »

too many LNF's failing (piston-ring) around the world and i haven't seen a pattern for it.
different tunes, gmpp, stock, bolt ons, no bolt ons, hard driving, easy driving...

is it finally an engine that is not durable nor strong or because it produces so much power it needs the best gas quality and people with problems have pumped in low quality gas (which is something that can not be measured at the time of pumping) ?

it really makes me wonder and i 'd really like to hear some opinions.

i'm leaning towards low gas quality and this is scary, coz we can not control that...

Kelu · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:38:25 AM »

First of all a statistic is a must, as far as I remember there were like 20 000 Kappas sold?

How many broke? After calculating the % we can talk.

Arabas · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:12:14 AM »

you got a point there Romaniac. my point is that it seems to me these engines are not one of the most reliable in the market... just sayin...

tazz · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:21:58 AM »

Production[6]
2006 21,273
2007 24,018
2008 15,587
2009 4,826
2010 20
Total 65,724
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice
Does not give a breakdown of the 2.0L TURBO though.

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:38:52 AM »

There was just over 100,000 kappas sold and that doesn't count the HHR SS or Cobalt SS LNF too. Probably upwards of over 200,000 LNFs on the market.

To have 10 or 20 crap out isn't bad at all.

I've been watching this also and it seems that most of the LNFs I've seen that have bad turbos or crapped out were the ones with the GMPP upgrade and then a tune on top of that. The higher pressures and over working the Turbo is what does it.

I have 72,000 miles on mine and I've had the Westers Tune since about 6,000 with no turbo issues or engine.

Arabas · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:59:33 AM »

i tottaly respect the stats you guys post. i just can't get over the fact that so many people here are talking about pistons go bad etc...

So Joe you believe it could be a GMPP issue?
i have always had the impression that bad gas is a major factor for our engines failure, since this motor is already pushed form the factory

SKY888 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:34:31 AM »

Poor tune........boosting too high..........turbos blowing hot air = damaged engine!

alot of owners are sooooo power hungry, and not thinking about the consequences.

with my previous gt35 kit, I could easily boost it at 35psi to get more power, but I didn't since I know the boundaries of the stock engine.

check out css, there's a thread there talking about the infinity boost of trifecta. Several cobalt owners blew their motors due to boosting soo high using their small turbos.

I personally think that the LNF engine is a very stout motor. It can easily handle 400whp (with the proper parts and tune).

A b16 engine of civic/integra, will not be able to handle 300whp using a turbo......without getting aftermarket pistons/rods.

snaponbob · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2011, 08:50:08 AM »

Addressing JUST the boost issue (on the stock turbo), some folks are seeing what they THINK are boost values north of 35PSI, but that number is not correct. If the boost reading on HPT is not properly set up, it will read 1 atmosphere (14.5psi) too high. The stock turbo can be coaxed (tricked) to spike to 27-28 psi, but won't hold it.

As for piston damage (not caused by foreign matter), the probable cause is lean and/or timing knock.

elff · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:29:05 AM »

Joe did allude to something that I do believe is the case. When DDM took a base reading of my car before modifying the tune, I had a decent amount of knock with the GMPP tune. You know, the factory upgrade tune that allows you to keep your warranty.
Dave asked if I had it modified because he was shocked at how bad it was.

My engine is actually safer now with the 2871 and DDM tune.

I think a lot of the issues are self induced sprinkled with a normal amount of failures for any mechanical part.

HAMMER DOWN · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:30:09 AM »

Quote from: Arabas on July 06, 2011, 05:59:33 AM

i tottaly respect the stats you guys post. i just can't get over the fact that so many people here are talking about pistons go bad etc...

So Joe you believe it could be a GMPP issue?
i have always had the impression that bad gas is a major factor for our engines failure, since this motor is already pushed form the factory

GMPP here, installed around 20k, Hit & max out the OEM Boost gauge at 23psi many times when I'm drive my 07 GXP. Now have over 63k with no problems what so ever. Other mods are; Hahn, BOV & Hoses, Hahn IC & modded OEM intake box. http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,1606.0.html.

Joe thinks it may have to do with a modified GMPP tune, Not GMPP tune alone. From Joe's post above "I've been watching this also and it seems that most of the LNFs I've seen that have bad turbos or crapped out were the ones with the GMPP upgrade and then a tune on top of that."

Must be another key to this puzzle we are missing.

Mike

Brazen17 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:40:23 AM »

We are running the GMPP tune (no additional tune over it) in both our cars and have only ever used tier 1 gas (mostly Exxon or Shell). Have never put in the lesser/unknown qauntity stuff. However, do you really know what is going into your tank? My wife drives her car in a normal fashion with an occasional wot moment. I on the other hand am prone to getting on the gas quite often (she is still on her stock tires and I am coming up for a third set). Just for curiosity I ran a compression test on my car yesterday (in light of the problems we are having on the redline) and all 4 cylinders were 150 +/- 2 psi! My spark plugs were text book. Hers were coated with oil residue.

Ironically we got the GMPP tune for the safety/warranty issue but I am beginning to think Wester's or Trifecta would have been the safer route!

HAMMER DOWN · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:08:07 AM »

^^^ Thank for reminding me, I forgot to add this to my post above. I took mind to the dealer for NY inspection. After it was done. He said to me, With over 63k, your rotors & the brake pads look hardly worn for 63k. Don't you use your brakes. I

and said, only when I have to, but I am on my 3rd set of tires. We both

and he said I see.

Mike

DaveOC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:16:35 AM »

Quote from: tazz on July 06, 2011, 05:21:58 AM

Production[6]
2006 21,273
2007 24,018
2008 15,587
2009 4,826
2010 20
Total 65,724
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice
Does not give a breakdown of the 2.0L TURBO though.

If I remember correctly, LNFs were about 63% of production from 2007 thru the end, so about 53,000 LNFs of the Solstice and Sky production.

TomatoSoup · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:28:03 AM »

Quote from: elff on July 06, 2011, 09:29:05 AM

Joe did allude to something that I do believe is the case. When DDM took a base reading of my car before modifying the tune, I had a decent amount of knock with the GMPP tune. You know, the factory upgrade tune that allows you to keep your warranty.
Dave asked if I had it modified because he was shocked at how bad it was.

My engine is actually safer now with the 2871 and DDM tune.

I think a lot of the issues are self induced sprinkled with a normal amount of failures for any mechanical part.

Is there any cheap logging device (or method) that we can do to monitor or detect knock? Those without access to HPT, I mean.

elff · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:36:58 AM »

Depends on how much $ you consider cheap.

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:41:32 AM »

DDM sells dashhawks at $299 a pop.

http://ddmworks.com/sky/interior/dashhawk_vehicle_information_display.htm

SKY888 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:10:43 PM »

Quote from: TomatoSoup on July 06, 2011, 11:28:03 AM

Is there any cheap logging device (or method) that we can do to monitor or detect knock? Those without access to HPT, I mean.

you can always get Aeroforce Gauges to monitor KRs/AFR/temps/etc

Buzzardt · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:28:33 PM »

Quote from: Arabas on July 06, 2011, 02:09:34 AM

too many LNF's failing (piston-ring) around the world and i haven't seen a pattern for it.
different tunes, gmpp, stock, bolt ons, no bolt ons, hard driving, easy driving...

is it finally an engine that is not durable nor strong or because it produces so much power it needs the best gas quality and people with problems have pumped in low quality gas (which is something that can not be measured at the time of pumping) ?

it really makes me wonder and i 'd really like to hear some opinions.

i'm leaning towards low gas quality and this is scary, coz we can not control that...

First I would look at the driving habit's of the owners. Then add the possibility of other attributing factors ie..Low grade gas, improper tune and the failure factor of anything mass produced.
Our cars do not have Race Car engines in them, unless we rebuild the engine. Other wise you have a stock engine that was produced to be operated on public roads within there parameters.

Brazen17 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Buzzardt on July 06, 2011, 12:28:33 PM

First I would look at the driving habit's of the owners. Then add the possibility of other attributing factors ie..Low grade gas, improper tune and the failure factor of anything mass produced.
Our cars do not have Race Car engines in them, unless we rebuild the engine. Other wise you have a stock engine that was produced to be operated on public roads within there parameters.

I understand what you are saying but do not totally agree. Otherwise all our engines would be 2.4 and no turbo. I do agree it is not a totally built race engine but GM should have built it to withstand the GMPP tune HP/TQ and "spirited" driving. What's funny/strange is I have two turbo cars and the one that is babied is the problem child!

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:52:24 PM »

Quote from: Buzzardt on July 06, 2011, 12:28:33 PM

First I would look at the driving habit's of the owners. Then add the possibility of other attributing factors ie..Low grade gas, improper tune and the failure factor of anything mass produced.
Our cars do not have Race Car engines in them, unless we rebuild the engine. Other wise you have a stock engine that was produced to be operated on public roads within there parameters.

That seems very contrary to some of the examples we have seen. It's as much the cars that have owners that are going gentle on their engines that are having troubles (see Brazen). The driving habits seem irrelevant. Maintenance, tune, and totally random luck seem to be as much the factor as anything. None of the failures reference here were owners of autoX'd cars. Regardless of where the hard driving is, street, track etc, it does not seem to play a roll. Additionally, the GM supported race team for T2? did very little to the engine IIRC, so it seems it is a race ready engine. Perhaps not NASCAR ready, but race ready.

Can we get a list of folks who have actually had major engine issues?

1lilndn
Brazen (wife's car)
Who else?

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:05:04 PM »

Other members with known issues

Chuckdoc - Turbo + (GMPP installed + tune)
Duck1313 - Turbo? (GMPP installed + tune)
Blacksunshine - Turbo +? (GMPP installed + tune)

I do all sorts of driving: Auto-X, Drag racing, spirited, daily driver. Westers Garage only tune

Critterman · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:40:20 PM »

Your's is a Wednesday car Joe. My LN5 is as well, started down the production line on a Tuesday and finished on a Wednesday. Delivered late Thursday night.

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:59:04 PM »

Weren't the motors made in a different factory though?

Critterman · « **Reply #23 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:59:35 PM »

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

joshmass · « **Reply #24 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:44:18 PM »

I thought I heard somewhere that the cause of the failure was improper ring gap for high boost? If that's the case and cylinder pressure is the culprit it could explain why it doesn't matter which combination of parts was involved.

What I'd like to know is if anyone with aftermarket pistons/rings has also had the ring land failure?

News:

Author Topic: Too many LNF's failing (Read 23289 times)