Author Topic: Brake noise while driving  (Read 47763 times)

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Offline ihawk95

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2011, 08:22:20 PM »
Kenny what Dave is talking about is not a grease but more like an adhesive that helps keep the back of the pad in contact with the caliper so that when the brakes are released the pad doesn't vibrate.

Ihawk I was wondering whose car was "squealing like a pig" I was just hoping it wasn't mine.

It was mine.  You were only 2 cars behind me I think.  You really could hear that?  Oh yeah...you probably heard it Saturday morning when we were driving up to Starved Rock.  That's about when it started.  I remember leaving the stop sign in Tonica and thinking wth?  That can't be my car!  Unfortunately, I figured out during the run that it was.

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2011, 09:48:06 PM »
Sorry to be a dick, but you mustn't have read the whole thread where I started twice that it happened on used rotors and pads immediately after I installed brand new rotors and pads.  :)


Read the whole thread. Same suggestion. The brake material that was transferred to the disks from the old pads may not "agree" with the new pads, even if they are the same compound. In the past, I have shared the input I received from Hawk about the need for a fresh surface for new pads to mate to. I found the advice from them to be valid. AAMOF, they were SO correct, that sanding the disks was not enough, and after I had them machined the difference was immediate.
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2011, 10:12:02 PM »
Sorry to be a dick, but you mustn't have read the whole thread where I started twice that it happened on used rotors and pads immediately after I installed brand new rotors and pads:)

Read the whole thread. Same suggestion. The brake material that was transferred to the disks from the old pads may not "agree" with the new pads, even if they are the same compound. .

What do I have to do to make it more clear:

BRAND NEW GM ROTORS

AND

BRAND NEW CARBOTECH PADS

WERE INSTALLED

AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 10:17:24 PM by Kenny »
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Offline snaponbob

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2011, 10:25:28 PM »
May have forgotten the part about the new and new after reading all the other stuff. Having already installed and used the CarboTechs, I have already been through what you are experiencing. If you like, I can share what I learned. 
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2011, 10:34:05 PM »
Well maybe I am wrong but I thought that the point of this forum was to exchange information and ideas.  So if you have some knowledge about this SOB why not share it?

Ihawk I was two cars back from you, can't say when I noticed the noise.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2011, 11:31:12 PM »
Well, this is where Kenny (imperical data rules) meets SOB (I have more experiences than Mario Andretti) get to share for the benefit of us all! :poke:  :poke:

That's a double poke if you didn't realize... That should cover both of you and the sarcasm is implied....
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Offline snaponbob

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2011, 11:36:03 PM »
One of the reasons I went with CarboTechs is that they would cook them before shipping. This is actually what the bedding process does. Thus, one does not have to heat cycle the pads to get them working. After a few brake cycles there is enough material transferred to "activate" them. I have AX6s on the front and XP8s on the back. They are very aggressive against the disks and dirty as hell. But lord do they work. My fronts are dead silent all the time. The rears have gotten quieter over time as they do not work as hard as the front. The way the rear calipers work mean that the pads do not retract fully as the fronts do (blame the e-brake system), so they may lightly touch the rotors. Once there has been enough material transfer the rears may quiet down some. If they have not been cooked before they were shipped, it will take quite some time gas out and fully bed to the rotors. I have found that when I have them good and hot at solo events the rears are silent, but in street driving when they are cooler they can occasionally squeak. It is the trade off from street pads to race pads. Treating the back of the pads can help, but the heat of racing may cook/melt the stuff off. If a light touch of the pedal kills the noise, then it's "normal". If the squeak is followed by "grinding", back the car up while stabbing the brakes may dislodge a pebble if one is present.

Now, if somebody can share how to get all the black schmutz off the wheel, I'm listening. My silver CCWs are now mottled charcoal colored. I may just have them media blasted and just powder coat them gray and be down with it.  
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Offline snaponbob

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 11:38:27 PM »
Well, this is where Kenny (imperical data rules) meets SOB (I have more experiences than Mario Andretti) get to share for the benefit of us all! :poke:  :poke:

That's a double poke if you didn't realize... That should cover both of you and the sarcasm is implied....

I could only wish I had THAT much knowledge (Mario's).  :D :D
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2011, 11:49:51 PM »
Bob, I totally understand all the stuff you've shared, and yeah if I had old rotors, it would make sense that pad deposits could cause the noise.

I have the same rear pads as you, XP8, I did have my pads pre bed. 

I just looked at the Permatex website, and they don't say the operating range of the stuff. The brake grease I have says up to 600 degrees F.

I'm going to call Carbotech to ask what they think about both the sticky stuff and grease, because based on all the input so far I'm pretty sure it's just a vibration caused by not having shims on the back of the pads.

I'm also going to yank on my parking brake a few times, maybe it needs to self adjust. It is only happening on the back.
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Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2011, 12:00:37 AM »
When I'd talked to them they had a couple things there recommended to help with the squeal...though of course I don't remember what they were. Kinda wish I'd gone with their pads since my rear EBC pads are still AWOL.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2011, 10:21:43 AM »
Kenny, under no circumstances put grease on your brake pads.  The grease is for the sliding caliper pins.  What you want is an adhesive like Dave said.

If you were to put grease on the back of the pads, it would get on the rotors over a period of time,  making them quieter right up to that final inpact with something solid.  Not a good thing.
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2011, 10:55:50 AM »
Kenny, under no circumstances put grease on your brake pads.  The grease is for the sliding caliper pins.  What you want is an adhesive like Dave said.

If you were to put grease on the back of the pads, it would get on the rotors over a period of time,  making them quieter right up to that final inpact with something solid.  Not a good thing.

:) Thank you.
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Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2011, 11:27:45 AM »
If you were to put grease on the back of the pads, it would get on the rotors over a period of time,  making them quieter right up to that final inpact with something solid.
I respectfully disagree.  They would be quiet even through that final impact.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2011, 01:04:32 PM »
I stand corrected :)
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2012, 11:16:21 AM »
Hey guys. I know this thread is dead, but I never got around to actually doing anything about my brakes. Didn't try the sticky stuff or anything. But I've driven the car a bit and have some more information.

Something I have now remembered is that the issue started when I was in a gas station and went into reverse with the parking brake on a year ago. I released the parking brake and had the "sounds like a rock is stuck in there" really loud noise, I went back and forth a few times and it wasn't so bad. I drove along and the noise I have today started. I replaced the pads and rotors as previously mentioned so I know there isn't anything stuck in there.

I have noticed that after driving back to the house and I start to go in reverse to back into my driveway, the sound is MANY times worse than when going forwards. Painfully loud. This confirms that there is significant pressure being put on the rotor, not just the pad leaning on the rotor from gravity.

I've done the self adjustment procedure I've seen on the forum which is to yank on the handbrake with the button pushed 10 times or something with no difference. 

The other information is that I am noticing that sometimes when I push the pedal at low speed in the driveway or parking lot, the car doesn't slow down for a moment, but actually feels that it accelerates for a moment. During that moment the sound goes away, then comes back in normal fashion as brake pressure is applied (the pads are supposed to make noise when there is light pressure since they are race pads). This makes me feel that it is a parking brake issue and that pushing the pedal is actually momentarily releasing the pad pressure on the rotor. Also to note, the brake releasing does not seem to happen at high speeds, only when at driveway speeds.

Normally when you have to pump the pedal it's bubbles in the fluid, and that may be the case, but the fact that the car seems to coast faster for that moment and the noise goes away makes me think that the pad is actually pulled away from the rotor when the pedal is lightly pressed. Like something is stuck putting pressure on the rotor, but when you touch the pedal, the system starts to work normally and momentarily pulls the pad away from the rotor then back into it. That's how it feels, though I don't understand how the calipers and parking brake mechanism work in enough detail to say if anything like that is even possible.

My plan of attack tomorrow is to get the car on jacks, take off the wheels, and get the engine spinning the hubs and try to look at what happens. Then have someone use the parking brake and normal brakes to see the behavior. Next I would take the pads out and push the rear pistons back into the rotors with my brake tool. (this was done when i replaced the pads and rotors, but maybe I didn't push them back far enough) The next step if that is not successful is to put on some old pads that are very thin and see if the problem still happens. The idea here is that because the pistons self adjust that if the brake off position of the piston is halfway extended, that the behavior may be different than with a very thick pad in there and the piston being nearly fully compressed.

So I'm trying to understand everything I can about the parking brake mechanism and if the going in reverse with the brake on could have caused something to happen. Any information would be appreciated.
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Offline miller11386

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2012, 11:32:01 AM »
Check out Miller's Youtube Channel HERE

Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2012, 11:35:46 AM »
Have you tried this adjustment method?

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,8160.msg125196.html#msg125196

I haven't. I definitely will check it out. Thank you.
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2012, 10:30:22 AM »
Starting to work on the car now. Just jacked it up.
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2012, 10:44:35 AM »
Test 1: Spinning wheels while in neutral

Brakes grabbing too much
I feel that the brakes are rubbing too much from the sound you hear. That doesn't sound like the diff and trans turning to me. When I get close with the camera it gets a lot louder.
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2012, 11:37:03 AM »
Ok so, took off the wheels and put it in first and got the hubs rotors spinning. I could hear the rubbing and started looking and noticed that the inside pad, the one closest to the axle, had one side pushing very hard and the other edge had a gap. Even pushing the caliper around didn't make a difference. I also noticed that the edge of the rotors have more residue than the inside, another indicator that it's touching there.

Pads are coming off next.

Here's the video and then a still.

Inside pad gap not even

[attach=2]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 11:40:47 AM by Kenny »
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Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2012, 12:16:21 PM »
Just one more piece of confirmation before the pads come off. I looked at the pads while lindsay hit the brakes while the rotor was spinning, one moved, the other didn't. Now the pads are coming off.
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Offline reedred

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2012, 01:09:38 PM »
Test 1: Spinning wheels while in neutral

Brakes grabbing too much
I feel that the brakes are rubbing too much from the sound you hear. That doesn't sound like the diff and trans turning to me. When I get close with the camera it gets a lot louder.

I don't think it's brakes.  Sounds like bipedal endothermic vertebrates to me.

Offline Treeman

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2012, 11:55:02 PM »
Lol!
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Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2012, 07:51:26 AM »
I found that the three cars I did the parking brake adjustment, the left wheel was still able to move while the right one did not.  Do the method that Miller posted and try it again. 

It's normal to have a little rub but the wheel is still able to move.  If you still have brake sticking after e-brake is released, then you have a bad caliper. 

The best way to verify that the caliper is sticking is to drive the car about 20 miles and then stop and measure the rotor temperatures, they should be within 5 or 10 degrees of each other.  I have one of these
http://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Digital-Thermometer-Laser-Contact/dp/B0054IQB8S
[attach=1]

Don't do this until after you have reset your e-brake in the other thread.  I did this on Dark Techs car before we reset the e-brake and one side was 40 degrees higher than the other.  After resetting, they were 5 degrees apart.

I placed the thermometer on the "Y" or spoke section of the rim and shot the rotor so that the distance taking the temp from the rotor was the same on both sides
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 07:57:12 AM by DeepBlueGXP »

Offline kennysabarese

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Re: Brake noise while driving
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2012, 08:14:06 AM »
Don't do this until after you have reset your e-brake in the other thread.  I did this on Dark Techs car before we reset the e-brake and one side was 40 degrees higher than the other.  After resetting, they were 5 degrees apart.

Why wouldn't I want to do this test before the reset? Wouldn't that help me to verify that there is a problem? EDIT  I get it now, make sure the e brake is not the problem first, then if it still sticks that will tell you if it's a bad caliper or not. I was thinking to verify that the rubbing is significant to do the temperature test before touching the E Brake.

Also I noticed my drivers side rotor has more paint chipping than my pass side, and the wheel cap fell off on that side as well when I first started having this problem, so those could both mean higher temps on that side, so I will definitely check with the thermometer. To confirm
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 08:17:26 AM by Kenny »
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