Topic: Wester's Race Tune for 2.0 GXP -- Impressions

[Ben L]

Joe loaded the Wester's Race Tune into my 2007 GXP and I drove it home about 70 miles.  I wanted to share my impressions. 

In a word:  Holy crap!!  OK, that's two words.  I found it spun up a little quicker from a dead stop to 3,000 rpms.  Then, it started kicking like an army mule, as boost built to pin at 23 psi for as long as I could hang in, which was 6k+, and still far below the "new" redline.  I had to end the experiment as the other big gauge next to the tach started edging into dangerous territory.  There is a distinct surge of intense torque at around 4k that builds momentum very quickly.  Our cars are a bit porky (no offense but true), so they hold on to that momentum very well, and speed builds quickly. 

It appears that all "for your own good" nonsense has been sent home to mommy.  For once the driver is in placed in touch with the wild, unrestrained potential of the forced induction direct injection system.  It takes some getting used to, and all is not smooth and silky, particularly between shifts.  But the sound of the turbo whining as the tach needle buries itself past the stock redline, the building G forces slam you back into your seat, and you adjust the wheel ever so slightly to stay ahead of the body twist.  Well.  Let's just say its well worth the investment.  And despite the fact that I run the much reviled Fujitsa intake and I/C tubes, it threw no codes so far, in both WOT and quiet street driving modes.  Speaking of which, out of boost, the tune is virtually the same as stock.  Idle quality and low rpm operation and efficiency are unaffected.
 
BUT  -- I have noticed that the massive midrange torque reveals the shortcomings of the chassis and suspension for predictable and solid handling.  The minimal center section of the chassis and the weakness of the factory-supplied cookie sheet that passes for a cross frame brace requires one to dial in a little lefthand countersteer to compensate for the twist in the frame when the boost comes on hard at 3k on up.  The left hand rear wheel gets light or spins when hitting peak torque as the side in the direction of rotation digs in. 

This is OK and kind of fun in a straight line as the rear walks out and the LSD hooks again, but would not be so good rolling on throttle with the front wheels turned, hammering on to build speed out of a turn on the autox course or track, or even on the twisties on the street.  Also, there was noticeable squat as the torque started kicking, and dive on hard braking.  Bottom Line:  I think the Race Tune calls for chassis stiffening, and a racier suspension.  Strut tower brace, backbone, diff. brace, and a rear end brace at least.  Coilovers with a higher spring rate would help the squat and dive.

The performance enhancement with this tune is almost unbelieveably dramatic.  You will have to learn to drive your car all over.  While you are doing that, you will need to be careful and show some respect, as you cute little cruiser will be far less forgiving of dumb driving mistakes than before.  The cruiser becomes kind of a bruiser. Tires will surely not last as long, as you will spend considerable time at the limits of traction if you live in the power band of this tune.  Can't wait to test this in a closed course, timed event.  My helmet's off to you, Lyndon.

[lil goat]

Sounds like a very good assessment, the backbone makes a huge difference, it has made my car so much more driveable and is a very inexpensive upgrade whether you buy it or make it.

[snaponbob]

Fantastic review. I am SO close to getting my Westers tune that it hurts. Suspension tuning is nearly unlimited, and with the ProBeam and BackBone some of your complaints will be resolved. With slightly revalved Konis, and stiffer front bar, and spring rates of about double that of OEM, the car is a bit jittery over real rough pavement, but is really a different animal in all other conditions. This platform has SO much room for "growth" or just a great all around sports car. At the risk of insulting some, the GXP/Redline is what a true British sports SHOULD have evolved in to.

[Ben L]

Thanks guys.  Removing the existing subframe connector, using it to bake cookies, and replacing it with something more substantial is the obvious first step.

Bob, what front bar upgrades are available for a GXP 2.0? 

Don't they come with more bar than the 2.4s?  I do not mind a stiff setup on a dual use street/comp. car, even if the ride is a bit rough on uneven pavement.

Has anyone come up with a functional rollover bar that would permit use of our cars on track days? 

I agree completely that the platform expresses the enormous potential for pure driving of the Limey roadster concept.  I am captivated by my GXP for that reason

But, if you check the pic below, you'll understand why I say that the Kappa does not stand alone in this respect, must take its place with its older serpent cousins. 




Last season, to keep all that V8 power and torque to the ground, we worked out some very cool suspension mods for the Cobra replicas we run in autox and time trial competition around here.  These included reengineering to put rod ends on upper and lower control arm pivot points and pressed in spherical bearings in the rear IRS knuckles.  We exorcised all the annoying sqeaky, binding and deflecting rubber bushings used throughout the stock Mustang suspension, and the results were dramatic.  Once the Type 65 coupe is done, I'm going to have my colleague Fast Freddie look at our GXP suspension components and see if we can't find a way to use smooth precision pivots, and get the rubber out.  Stay tuned!

It might be heresy, but my brief performance driving career has made me think suspension and chassis and tires are just as important as power adders in maximizing the potential of any platform. 

[lil goat]

I have one on my car from RMR that I was told would allow me on the track at Summit Point, never tested them on it. I know it will get you on Englishtown, it is not SCCA approved but most tracks will let you on for track days. Joe is an expert installer! Here is a picture you can sort of see it.


Call Eric at RMR 714-847-2158
http://www.rmrproducts.com/store/pc/home.asp

[Ben L]

Just the ticket Goat!!  I'll use the coupe for above-PDX & FATT track work.  Thanks!!

[snaponbob]

From Ben -- and then from me

Thanks guys.  Removing the existing subframe connector, using it to bake cookies, and replacing it with something more substantial is the obvious first step.

If you plan on building a car to SCCA Solo Prepared class you'd need to check on that. Modified class is even more open to such stuff. SSM and Street Prepared not legal. That cross connector is pretty rugged, as is the whole front of the car, although tying the spring towers together could help. In SP and SSM we can't triangulate to the firewall, but Prep. and Mod can. The REAL structural weakness is through the middle of the car leading to cowl shake and flex. Again, Stock, SSM, and SP do not allow the DDM BackBone, but Prep and Mod do.

Bob, what front bar upgrades are available for a GXP 2.0? 

At this point, nothing except the GXP's optional Z0K bar. The other available bars are upgrades for the FE2, not FE3. My front bar is from Saner, but they are apparently gone. It's a 32mm solid bar. As a matter of fact, for STOCK class you should put the entire Z0K package on your GXP, BUT leave on the FE3 front bar and get some Konis or other premium shocks. The Bilstiens just are not up to the task in Solo.

Don't they come with more bar than the 2.4s?  I do not mind a stiff setup on a dual use street/comp. car, even if the ride is a bit rough on uneven pavement.

The 2.4 has the standard FE2 suspension. The GXP has the FE3 package (18-20% stiffer springs and bars). Again, the optional Z0K package (different than the 2.4 Z0K package) is a further 18-20% increase of bars and springs. The gloves come off in Street Prepared and classes "above" that. 

Has anyone come up with a functional rollover bar that would permit use of our cars on track days? 

Goat may differ with me, but NO. The RMR piece in his car may be their "Style Bar", which RMR flat states is NOT being sold as a roll bar. Here is an interesting thread on the Solstice form about this topic. http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/style-bar-safety-concerns-37869/ The SCCA has FLATLY said no. That said, some organizations may allow it for their track events. My guess would be that NASA would not allow it either. You'll just have to do your homework. The style bar does NOT mount to the floor and is not triangulated

I agree completely that the platform expresses the enormous potential for pure driving of the Limey roadster concept.  I am captivated by my GXP for that reason

But, if you check the pic below, you'll understand why I say that the Kappa does not stand alone in this respect, must take its place with its older serpent cousins. 

Last season, to keep all that V8 power and torque to the ground, we worked out some very cool suspension mods for the Cobra replicas we run in autox and time trial competition around here.  These included reengineering to put rod ends on upper and lower control arm pivot points and pressed in spherical bearings in the rear IRS knuckles.  We exorcised all the annoying sqeaky, binding and deflecting rubber bushings used throughout the stock Mustang suspension, and the results were dramatic.  Once the Type 65 coupe is done, I'm going to have my colleague Fast Freddie look at our GXP suspension components and see if we can't find a way to use smooth precision pivots, and get the rubber out.  Stay tuned!

There are a few poly bushing sets available for the Kappas. The allowance of more aggressive suspension mods is class dependant.

It might be heresy, but my brief performance driving career has made me think suspension and chassis and tires are just as important as power adders in maximizing the potential of any platform. 

Tru dat!!! So far the only mods that I have done for power is a low restriction exhaust and now a catless downpipe. The downpipe has really made a difference, even with the stock tune. The downpipe has changed how the car reacts to pedal input in turns because (even with the computer limited PEAK outputs) the available maximum torque seems to be available over a wider rpm range and the turbo spools up much quicker. The REAL power happens next week when I install a Wester's tune. I have been trying to dial OUT the understeer, but the downpipe has shown that even with the FE3 springs (I am well above those now) the car can be steered with the gas pedal !!!!!!!!!!

[GXPinKC]

Thanks Ben L, lil goat, and snaponbob for the incredible comments on the Wester's Race Tune for the 2.0 GXP.  I lust for it, but afraid that my wife won't permit it.  I could lie to her about it, but will not do that.  I am just happy for all you guys that have it.  One of these days down the line, maybe one of you would be gracious enough to take me along with you on a short jaunt, maybe at the National's in Denver? 

[Cheers]

I won't say I told you so, wait I just did, you really do have to learn to drive all over again --- all the way to DDM  

[snaponbob]

Thanks Ben L, lil goat, and snaponbob for the incredible comments on the Wester's Race Tune for the 2.0 GXP.  I lust for it, but afraid that my wife won't permit it.  I could lie to her about it, but will not do that.  I am just happy for all you guys that have it.  One of these days down the line, maybe one of you would be gracious enough to take me along with you on a short jaunt, maybe at the National's in Denver? 

You don't have to lie. Just don't say ANYTHING. Close, but different!! As for driving a Wester's tune, I'll PM you next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Olathe is 25 minutes away from me. Just 10 miuntes from 50 Highway (people say it that way around here - go figure) and I-470 in Lees Summit.

[idkfa]

Great review.  I'm sure someday I'll swap in a LNF just for the possibilities.    Have fun with that!

[spicy3480]

BUT  -- I have noticed that the massive midrange torque reveals the shortcomings of the chassis and suspension for predictable and solid handling.  The minimal center section of the chassis and the weakness of the factory-supplied cookie sheet that passes for a cross frame brace requires one to dial in a little lefthand countersteer to compensate for the twist in the frame when the boost comes on hard at 3k on up.  The left hand rear wheel gets light or spins when hitting peak torque as the side in the direction of rotation digs in. 


Get a DDMWorks backbone and this will be virtually gone!!  I can tell you this from experience.

[Ben L]

From Ben -- and then from me

Thanks guys.  Removing the existing subframe connector, using it to bake cookies, and replacing it with something more substantial is the obvious first step.

If you plan on building a car to SCCA Solo Prepared class you'd need to check on that. Modified class is even more open to such stuff. SSM and Street Prepared not legal. That cross connector is pretty rugged, as is the whole front of the car, although tying the spring towers together could help. In SP and SSM we can't triangulate to the firewall, but Prep. and Mod can. The REAL structural weakness is through the middle of the car leading to cowl shake and flex. Again, Stock, SSM, and SP do not allow the DDM BackBone, but Prep and Mod do.

Bob, what front bar upgrades are available for a GXP 2.0? 

At this point, nothing except the GXP's optional Z0K bar. The other available bars are upgrades for the FE2, not FE3. My front bar is from Saner, but they are apparently gone. It's a 32mm solid bar. As a matter of fact, for STOCK class you should put the entire Z0K package on your GXP, BUT leave on the FE3 front bar and get some Konis or other premium shocks. The Bilstiens just are not up to the task in Solo.

Don't they come with more bar than the 2.4s?  I do not mind a stiff setup on a dual use street/comp. car, even if the ride is a bit rough on uneven pavement.

The 2.4 has the standard FE2 suspension. The GXP has the FE3 package (18-20% stiffer springs and bars). Again, the optional Z0K package (different than the 2.4 Z0K package) is a further 18-20% increase of bars and springs. The gloves come off in Street Prepared and classes "above" that. 

Has anyone come up with a functional rollover bar that would permit use of our cars on track days? 

Goat may differ with me, but NO. The RMR piece in his car may be their "Style Bar", which RMR flat states is NOT being sold as a roll bar. Here is an interesting thread on the Solstice form about this topic. http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/style-bar-safety-concerns-37869/ The SCCA has FLATLY said no. That said, some organizations may allow it for their track events. My guess would be that NASA would not allow it either. You'll just have to do your homework. The style bar does NOT mount to the floor and is not triangulated

I agree completely that the platform expresses the enormous potential for pure driving of the Limey roadster concept.  I am captivated by my GXP for that reason

But, if you check the pic below, you'll understand why I say that the Kappa does not stand alone in this respect, must take its place with its older serpent cousins. 

Last season, to keep all that V8 power and torque to the ground, we worked out some very cool suspension mods for the Cobra replicas we run in autox and time trial competition around here.  These included reengineering to put rod ends on upper and lower control arm pivot points and pressed in spherical bearings in the rear IRS knuckles.  We exorcised all the annoying sqeaky, binding and deflecting rubber bushings used throughout the stock Mustang suspension, and the results were dramatic.  Once the Type 65 coupe is done, I'm going to have my colleague Fast Freddie look at our GXP suspension components and see if we can't find a way to use smooth precision pivots, and get the rubber out.  Stay tuned!

There are a few poly bushing sets available for the Kappas. The allowance of more aggressive suspension mods is class dependant.

It might be heresy, but my brief performance driving career has made me think suspension and chassis and tires are just as important as power adders in maximizing the potential of any platform. 

Tru dat!!! So far the only mods that I have done for power is a low restriction exhaust and now a catless downpipe. The downpipe has really made a difference, even with the stock tune. The downpipe has changed how the car reacts to pedal input in turns because (even with the computer limited PEAK outputs) the available maximum torque seems to be available over a wider rpm range and the turbo spools up much quicker. The REAL power happens next week when I install a Wester's tune. I have been trying to dial OUT the understeer, but the downpipe has shown that even with the FE3 springs (I am well above those now) the car can be steered with the gas pedal !!!!!!!!!!

Thanks so much for the time and effort you put in here.

We're used to being stuck like the redhaired stepchild no one loves into XP, so I am not too concerned what class I wind up in after optimizing handling. 

My credo -- Build to get the most out the car, then see where you end up.  I run for the joy of it, and am not obsessed with making it to the Nationals.  It would be nice to be competitive, but there are some truly unhealthy class-obsessive people in SCCA Solo who I know I probably will never be able to touch, and wouldn't want to. 

That why I run with other clubs, too.  Big fish, small pond, and all that. Raw times rule!!!

[lil goat]

Bob is correct the RMR is noway going to let you race anywhere, but it will get you on for FATT at Summit Point and for some driver schools at Englishtown, I have talked with the people at the tracks. That is all I ever wanted it for.

[snaponbob]

BUT  -- I have noticed that the massive midrange torque reveals the shortcomings of the chassis and suspension for predictable and solid handling.  The minimal center section of the chassis and the weakness of the factory-supplied cookie sheet that passes for a cross frame brace requires one to dial in a little lefthand countersteer to compensate for the twist in the frame when the boost comes on hard at 3k on up.  The left hand rear wheel gets light or spins when hitting peak torque as the side in the direction of rotation digs in. 


Get a DDMWorks backbone and this will be virtually gone!!  I can tell you this from experience.

I am quite sure that is called "power oversteer" !!!!!!!!!!!! Although the BackBone will strengthen the chassis, the same power induced oversteer will occur but just at a slightly higher threshold. Also, if the inside rear wheel is spinning on a Kappa with LSD there is something wrong with the diff. After two years of Solo events in my stock class Redline (well over 30 events for 125+ runs) some of this seat time has taught me a few things.

Ohhh, how I wish I could use the BackBone in Street Prepared. Same holds true for the RMR Style Bar so I could wear a four point at events instead of flopping around in the car like fish out of water. BTW, who has installed an after market seat???

[Frank I]

Ohhh, how I wish I could use the BackBone in Street Prepared. Same holds true for the RMR Style Bar so I could wear a four point at events instead of flopping around in the car like fish out of water. BTW, who has installed an after market seat???

Snaponbob:

As for an aftermarket seat that will hold you in position I can not answer that question but may have a solution for you. 

The top side bolsters and the bottom seat bolsters can be modified to give more support and fit.  JPM did my seats and the difference is amazing.  I had the drivers seat done a little more for fit and function then the passenger seat and it holds me in the seat without body movement as well as any racing seat I have used in the past.  If you do not like the idea of sending your seat to Joe at JPM, you can do the mod yourself with some foam rubber, glue and an electric carving knife.

Frank I

[snaponbob]

For everyday driving the seat is fine. It has taken a warranty replacement of the bottom cover, then the foam, and I have added foam myself. If I wanted to drive a bathtub ................ well, you get the picture. In an older car I raced with a rally style seat and want that sort of feel again. It REALLY makes a difference "getting IN" a car versus having the feeling of having "putting ON" the car !!!!!!!!!!! I am zeroing in on

Now I have to go do some measuring.

[GXPinKC]

All I can say is "AWSOME" snaponbob! Hope it fits?  

[Sol Asylum]

Snaponbob

Sounds like SCCA rules are keeping you from installing a backbone but can you beef up the existing brace?  If you were to weld some reinforcements to the top side of the brace how would anyone ever know unless they removed it?

[Frank I]

Snaponbob

Sounds like SCCA rules are keeping you from installing a backbone but can you beef up the existing brace?  If you were to weld some reinforcements to the top side of the brace how would anyone ever know unless they removed it? 

Sol Asylum/Snaponbob:

Last year before CNC'ing the U-Channel Drive Shaft brace out of T6 6061 I had previously welded the stock GM brace using some cold rolled stock on the inside of the 12 bolt holes forming a rectangle and then X'd in the rectangle.  This gave significant rigidity to the brace but I did not like the aesthetics.   

This procedure could be done on the top side of the stock brace and would be just as rigid/strong as using 3/8" T6 6061 aluminum.  I do not know how detailed the SCCA checks for suspension or frame modifications but unless they removed the brace they would never know it had been strengthened to remove flex.  Just a thought.

Frank I 

[snaponbob]

Sol Asylum/Snaponbob:

Last year before CNC'ing the U-Channel Drive Shaft brace out of T6 6061 I had previously welded the stock GM brace using some cold rolled stock on the inside of the 12 bolt holes forming a rectangle and then X'd in the rectangle.  This gave significant rigidity to the brace but I did not like the aesthetics.  

This procedure could be done on the top side of the stock brace and would be just as rigid/strong as using 3/8" T6 6061 aluminum.  I do not know how detailed the SCCA checks for suspension or frame modifications but unless they removed the brace they would never know it had been strengthened to remove flex.  Just a thought.

Frank I 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh ............................. I thought of it !!!!!!!! But it IS illegal in Stock, Street Prepared, and Street Mod. An inspection mirror and flashlight, or even a small ball peen hammer ("ring" the sheet metal) would be all that was needed if there were a protest. It was VERY tempting.

[Sol Asylum]

You must be the only SCCA guy that I know that plays by the rules.

[snaponbob]

You must be the only SCCA guy that I know that plays by the rules.

Actually, in the Kansas and Kansas City Regions we have quite a few people with those VERY expensive jackets. I will not list names, but the top notch drivers I know do it legally. Have I been "creative" in the past? Ummmmm ... my Redline was legal in A/Stock and will be in B/SP. I have found that the things that can make a car "overly competitive" are obvious to those that know. The guys at the top of the heap are quite clean. That said, the SCCA Solo rule set needs something between William Clemmens and Bernie Madoff to decipher. But I am still going to get my ass kicked by Evo9's. But, thanks for the compliment ------ I think!!!!!

[Sol Asylum]

It was a compliment.  I have seen and heard about some pretty creative rule interpretations with SCCA members.

[snaponbob]

Ohhhhhhhh , so have I. Example; I am sure that I could get away with the wheel mod on the stock turbo ---- as long as I was the only 2.0 Kappa in Street Prepared !!!!!!!!!! The real shame is the LETTER of the rule (as opposed of the intent) is use to club someone over the head for a transgression that in the final analysis is of no advantage. Example: after market head bolts are technically illegal in stock class !!!! And people have been tossed for less. My broken antenna is a valid protest item in stock class. Fun, huh?