Topic: GMPP install instructions

[lil goat]

I just stumbled on these, in case you want to see what GM says about the GMPP tune.
http://tunersource.gmblogs.com/Downloads/Solstice,%20Sky,%20and%20HHR%20LNF%20Turbo%20Upgrade%20Kit%20(19212670)%20Install%20Instructions.pdf/view

I included the French and Spanish versions for you international types

[Sly Bob]

Thanks lilgoat. We posted those instructions on the 18th of December. Good find though. 

http://kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=19.msg1042#msg1042

[baconbits]

What I would like to know is if the other plug end for the stock MAP sensor is available (the end currently on the existing map sensor).. my thinking on this would be make an intermediate cable to go from the stock Map connector to new MAP connector and sensor without cutting the wires..  order new engine control unit c/w Westers tune..when it's time to take it for service.. old map sensor and existing ecu go back in.. by the look of the install it only takes a few minutes..and may be worth it to keep the warranty..
Bacon

[snaponbob]

Bacon, you have hit on one of the reasons NOT to use the GMPP tune !!!!!!!! If one keeps the existing hardware on their car and uses the Wester's tune they will benefit from arguably the strongest tune that we currently have available to us. Cost - somewhere between $500-$659. If one buys the HP Tune package ($500) they have the ability of doing the ECM flash themselves via an e-mail from Lyndon and thus the ECM does not have to be shipped away. Want to go to the dealership? Reload the stock tune! When you get back home simply flash the ECM with the Wester's tune again !!!! No second ECM (~$300-$500 plus cost of "learn" at the dealership at some expense) to swap around, no muss, no fuss. And with HP Tuner you can get updates from Lyndon when you do any mods. Later, once Lyndon does his testing with the 3 bar sensors from our friend in Germany and the GMPP package from me, there may be some additional benefits from the 3 bar sensors. Just as it took 4-6 months before parts from the GMPP cobalt supercharger kit became available seperately, we will certainly be able to buy sensors as well.

For those that want a drop in tune and simply go drive a higher output 2.0 Kappa, the GMPP package is fine. For those that want to have additional flexibility at the least cost exposure, the combo of HP Tune and Wester's (or other tune vendors - to be fair) may be the best way to go. AND, you have the HP Tuner stuff to keep track of your car's computer health in case it starts throwing codes for some non-tune related reasons. Heck. I'll even be able to use the HP Tuner to monitor my 08 Outlook and 97 Chevy Express Van !!!!!!!

[chuckdoc]

Snaponbob, I do not understand.  I started with the Westers tune, then went to stock and got the GM tune.  Now I will be testing the Westers tune on top of the GM tune.  Where is the down side.  I can go back to GM tune anytime I want with HP tuners or I can stay with Westers tune of the GM perfomance tune.

Where is the down side?

[snaponbob]

Snaponbob, I do not understand.  I started with the Westers tune, then went to stock and got the GM tune.  Now I will be testing the Westers tune on top of the GM tune.  Where is the down side.  I can go back to GM tune anytime I want with HP tuners or I can stay with Westers tune of the GM perfomance tune.

Where is the down side?

No down side for you. Didn't catch the part where you already had the GMPP tune first. However, for those that have not purchased yet, having BOTH tunes seems more expensive than the Westers and HP only.

[lil goat]

The Wester's and the GMPP will be the best possible option, and no way I would do it without the HP Tuners. There is going to be a huge advantage in having the 3 BAR sensors, I don't think GM will make them available anytime soon. There is zero advantage to GM selling the sensors, from there way of thinking the sensors have no value without the tune. I am sure they would rather sell the complete kit, that only makes them money (as they have zero cost for the tune now) they need to recover the development cost, and it brings money into the dealerships in labor charges. If they sell the sensors outright they make basically nothing. Having HP Tuners and a legal copy of the tune to install as needed seems to be well worth the added cost of buying the complete kit,  you get all the connectors the longer bolts and the tune for about $200 more than just the sensors, not to mention a warranty on the sensors at a minimum. Seems like no brainer to me. Most of us will easily spend $200 on some chrome do dad, why not on the added security of the complete tune, especially if like many of us you already have the Wester's and the HP Tuners.

[snaponbob]

It may be fair to assume that the 3 bar sensors will eventually lead to more aggressive tunes. But some will say that increasing the boost pressure of our little turbo may not really net anything more than heat. (Not MY position, just what some have said.) But once Lyndon has his way with the GMPP stuff we will know for sure.

As for GM making greater profit from just selling the kits, there may be truth to that. But they MUST make the seperate parts available for warranty and no warranty purposes !!!!!!!!! Imagine the screaming that will happen if one of those sensors is broken or fails and no replacement is available. And for those that think that GM is all that great at marketing in general, look at what was happening to their market share BEFORE the current "situation".

[PubliusE]

I think the immediate issue with making the sensors available is that GM can't seem to keep the kit is stock.  They are selling as fast as they can make them.

[lil goat]

It may be fair to assume that the 3 bar sensors will eventually lead to more aggressive tunes. But some will say that increasing the boost pressure of our little turbo may not really net anything more than heat. (Not MY position, just what some have said.) But once Lyndon has his way with the GMPP stuff we will know for sure.

As for GM making greater profit from just selling the kits, there may be truth to that. But they MUST make the seperate parts available for warranty and no warranty purposes !!!!!!!!! Imagine the screaming that will happen if one of those sensors is broken or fails and no replacement is available. And for those that think that GM is all that great at marketing in general, look at what was happening to their market share BEFORE the current "situation".

 The sensors will be avaiable, but not for seperate purchase, it will be available as a replacement part under warranty, which would be replaced by the dealer under warranty. I just don't see that much of a savings in buying the sensors and connectors as opposed to the whole kit, if you just bought the sensors you would have no warranty on them, GM has no warranty on over the counter electrical parts. GMPP is a sepearte division and they make the kit, all they do is sell parts, that's why it's the same kit for the Solstice/Sky and HHR, GMPP is not platform specific. Then again the way it looks now they may be having a garage sale very soon.

[snaponbob]

The sensors will be avaiable, but not for seperate purchase, it will be available as a replacement part under warranty, which would be replaced by the dealer under warranty. I just don't see that much of a savings in buying the sensors and connectors as opposed to the whole kit, if you just bought the sensors you would have no warranty on them, GM has no warranty on over the counter electrical parts. GMPP is a sepearte division and they make the kit, all they do is sell parts, that's why it's the same kit for the Solstice/Sky and HHR, GMPP is not platform specific. Then again the way it looks now they may be having a garage sale very soon.

All good comments. But some questions that should not be considered as challenges.
1) Do you KNOW that GM will have the sensors only as warranty items? The reason I am asking is that after about 4-6 months EVERYTHING in the GMPP Cobalt SS kit went to retail separately.
2) Although you are probably correct about pricing, since there is no pricing on the sensors in North America how can this be established?
3) Good point about OTC warranty on electrical parts.
4) I am sure that the "garage sale" comment was tongue in cheek.

For those that will doing the turbo mod (impeller and intake housing) or replacing the turbo the 3 bar sensors will not even be needed as they produce more AIR FLOW rather than higher pressure. The other concern I have about the GMPP is how GM will handle running changes to the base tune as they resolve different issues with the car over time. This is the way GM resolves drivability (and other) issues as the fleet ages and histories develop. One would expect (hope) that GM has anticipated this and that tools such as the Tech 2 will be program sensitive when it ID's the car and software version.

[lil goat]

I asked at the dealership, any excuse to go talk to the rather attractive parts girl, she told me that they could order just the sensor but it had to be approved by GM tech support and that was only for a warranty issue, for what that's worth I doubt anyone has had to do that yet.

I can only base my guess on pricing on what European pricing was found to be and what other GM TMAP sensors cost about $150 each, or half that on eBay.

If it is a GMPP part and installed by the dealer one of GM's selling points is the whole warranty thing, so I would expect if the TMAP fails they would have to replace it, I don't think the failure rate is very high on TMAP sensors.

BTF said he wanted to be able to get above the 255kpm setting in the ECM for boost, that was with his turbo upgrade not just the wheel, if I understand things the 3 BAR sensor and tune should enable this.