Topic: Trifecta Tune

[elff]

Then how do you Explain BlackSunShine's or Boardkats?

[Sol Asylum]

Then how do you Explain BlackSunShine's or Boardkats?

They have Monday cars that got Sky engines by mistake.

[U4EA]

Thanks for the offer! I may take you up on it. I know about the cable being needed but what is the "driver" you mention? Is it the software?

Yes.

Given what I know I still feel confident in Trifecta. So...back the the original question. Does 25-27 psi seem reasonable with the stock internals and turbo?

Think you would be safe in this area as most tuners are staying between those guidelines anyway.

[Brazen17]

Then how do you Explain BlackSunShine's or Boardkats?

Simple! They got the redline engines by mistake. Stop lobbing soft balls at me...

[Brazen17]

I would agree. When I was pushing over that, well, I've a new engine.   Then again, I had just about every problem the car could have before I did much of anything. I think I got a lemon to start with. So far, the new motor is running like a champ.

Good to hear. Were all your problems engine related? The wife's redline never let on that anything was wrong until it was too late.

[elff]

Stop lobbing soft balls at me.

Too easy, but my reply would not be family appropriate.
 

[Critterman]

Elff prefers balls of sustenance.

[elff]

I know I live in PA
But I stay(ed) as far away from Penn State as possible

[kwtoxman]

I was under the implication that the 3 bar sensors were part of the cause.

I've never seen or heard this. There are hundreds (and maybe thousands) of kappas driving around with no issues with the 3 bar sensors, with and without the GMPP tune.

I cannot remember off the top of my head how many blown motors we have read about on these forums.

 How many of those were stock?  I can think of at least one Sky because he had a hell of a time getting the motor replaced under warranttee,

How many where on the 3 bar sensor with or without a tune on top of the factory tune.

BBS lost a motor I think he had the 3bar not sure if he had a tune on the tune
1LI - lost a motor 3bar I think he had a tune on the tune
the guy whose wife Sol with the GMPP lost a motor, but his Sky with GMPP tune is fine.
Anyone esle?

There just isnt enough information to form a guess much less and informed opinion.   Just my 

I agree. Not even close for a trend. Again, there are hundreds (and maybe thousands) of kappas driving around with no issues with the 3 bar sensors, with and without the GMPP tune

[TomatoSoup]

I agree. Not even close for a trend. Again, there are hundreds (and maybe thousands) of kappas driving around with no issues with the 3 bar sensors, with and without the GMPP tune

Huh?  How many kappas are driving around WITH the 3-bar sensors but WITHOUT the GMPP tune?  I'm sure there are a few that originally had GMPP but then converted to something else, but single-digits I would think.

However, I agree with you that the sensors themselves are not to blame for anything.  The GMPP tune istelf, now, that may have something to do with it.

[Sol Asylum]

I would have to think that part of the GMPP tune is to calibrate the tables to be able to use the new sensors properly.  I am not 100% sure of how the sensors read and convert data but if you assumed it was like a variable resistance both sensors may have a range of say 5 ohms.  On the 2 bar sensor 1 bar may equal say 2.5 ohms however on the 3 bar sensor 1 bar may equal 1.6 ohms.  Without the recalibration the 3 bar sensor would be giving a lower reading then it should.

Going back to a base tune and having the 3 bar sensors may skew things in the tables, I can't say what it would do to performance be it good or bad.


 

[kwtoxman]

Huh?  How many kappas are driving around WITH the 3-bar sensors but WITHOUT the GMPP tune?

3 bar sensors have been available for a while as an aftermarket add on and some people have been buying the sensors and hp tuning. So it isn't a gmpp tune technically (as in bought from GM), but as I understand it, the hp tune files are based on copied gmpp tunes.

[1LILNDN]

Huh?  How many kappas are driving around WITH the 3-bar sensors but WITHOUT the GMPP tune?  I'm sure there are a few that originally had GMPP but then converted to something else, but single-digits I would think.

However, I agree with you that the sensors themselves are not to blame for anything.  The GMPP tune istelf, now, that may have something to do with it.

You know I haveHAD the GMPP Tune and  a Westers Tune when my Car had the Pistons and other stuff replaced I had the Tune taken off before it went in the Shop.  But all of the GM Tects May Not know what they are doing when they Install the Tune and the 3 Bar sensors. For one most of them just crimp the wires in connectors.

Now I just have the GMPP Tune Reinstalled .

[tazz]

I would have to think that part of the GMPP tune is to calibrate the tables to be able to use the new sensors properly.  I am not 100% sure of how the sensors read and convert data but if you assumed it was like a variable resistance both sensors may have a range of say 5 ohms.  On the 2 bar sensor 1 bar may equal say 2.5 ohms however on the 3 bar sensor 1 bar may equal 1.6 ohms.  Without the recalibration the 3 bar sensor would be giving a lower reading then it should.

Going back to a base tune and having the 3 bar sensors may skew things in the tables, I can't say what it would do to performance be it good or bad.


 

The car will not run correctly with the 3 bar sensors on a stock base tune.  You can however change the the base stock tune to run on the 3 bar sensor by copying the 3 bar sensor data from the GMPP tune to the base stock tune with HPT and it will run just fine.  Some have even just been doing this and altering the base GXP stock tune instead since it seems it MIGHT have less nanny controls for the turbo than the upgraded GMPP tune.

You need to be logged in to HPT website to view the pics.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35860
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34136
 

Vince still has access to a few more tables IIRC fueling tables than just HPT and why you need his cable to read and write his tunes since he has his own program to read the ECM. 

[Kelu]

Whoohoo, HPT forum users active on KP, looks so nice 

[wspohn]

The Trifecta tune does not overwrite anything, it resides in a different area of the ECM memory and replaces the stock tune (i.e. whichever tune was on the car when you installed the Trifecta tune).  I have seen some thoughts on whether the GMPP tune can cause problems, but none with Vince's tunes.  Tuners that cause engines to blow don't normally stay in business for long.

[Imaj]

Brazen17, go with the Trifecta tune. You will be fine. I was the first Solstice owner to have the Trifecta tune installed. I now have tracked my car several times with it and have had zero problems. It is a solid tune. I do not know if I read that you are wanting to get the GM 3 bar sensors. But unless Vince has been able to find a way to get some more power with the 3 bar sensors, you are wasting your money on them. No increase in power with them on the car with a Trifecta tune as far as I know. Good luck!

[Lithium]

I am tuned with Trifecta along with about 8-9 Cobalt SS/TC's here in Albuquerque.  Not one has had an issue motor wise...tranny and clutch now thats a different story.  My sky is fine and put out 293whp and 348wtq.  Bone stock everything else.   Go with Trifecta you won't be disappointed, plus the hide-a-tune is nice.

[Brazen17]

Thanks guys. You opinion is appreciated! I have the three bar sensors since I do have the GMPP tune. I think I agree with you and am leaning towards Trifecta.

[Ames Performance Tuning]

I have been reselling and helping folks with Trifecta tunes for a couple of years.  I have not had any issues and we do not know of any issues that point back to a tune.  If so, I would not sell the tune. 
I would suggest verifying that your sensors were soldered (sp?) and shrink wrapped mine weren't.  I have watched my Aeroforce gauge and actually see a little more knock on the GMMP tune as compared with Trifecta.  Not enough to worry about.  In KC, lower altitude, the GMMP tune hits about 20 to 21 and Trifecta tune is 22/23.  Vince works with the timing etc. to bring the power quicker and is very noticable.  He is very careful balancing performance with safety.  I would recommend if you go with the tune to datalog.  This allows Vince to double-check anything unique with your vehicle.  Lastly, my understanding is he uses the GMMP tune as a basis and makes some adjustments.

[snaponbob]

@ Brent -- sent you an e-mail.

[Brazen17]

I have been reselling and helping folks with Trifecta tunes for a couple of years.  I have not had any issues and we do not know of any issues that point back to a tune.  If so, I would not sell the tune. 
I would suggest verifying that your sensors were soldered (sp?) and shrink wrapped mine weren't.  I have watched my Aeroforce gauge and actually see a little more knock on the GMMP tune as compared with Trifecta.  Not enough to worry about.  In KC, lower altitude, the GMMP tune hits about 20 to 21 and Trifecta tune is 22/23.  Vince works with the timing etc. to bring the power quicker and is very noticable.  He is very careful balancing performance with safety.  I would recommend if you go with the tune to datalog.  This allows Vince to double-check anything unique with your vehicle.  Lastly, my understanding is he uses the GMMP tune as a basis and makes some adjustments.

My sensors were crimped but I have since soldered them. If I get the Trifecta then, yes, I will data log. With the GMPP and the high summer temps/higher altitude here I occasionally hit 24 psi.

[rlhammon]

Don't know why people say GMPP + [fill in the blank]. Once a new tune is loaded in the ECM, whatever was there is gone.

Not trying to call you out Bob, but I'm not here often.. and I'm going through somewhat old threads, sorry.

For the record, I have a Trifecta tune, and my base tune in the GMPP tune.  I drive daily on the GMPP tune, and use the Trifecta for autocross.  When autocrossing I have access to the No Lift Shift, which is only there due to the GMPP tune.  So... not everything gets removed.

Also, I've had zero issues with my GMPP tune, and it's not like I'm easy on the poor car.  I haul a fairly heavy 4'x8' trailer with the car from event to event, all while driving on the GMPP tune.  63,000+ miles on her so far...

[elff]

The other thing is there is a change in the Tmap sensors.  The GMPP includes 3 bar Bosch sensors.
So there you have it.

[snaponbob]

Not trying to call you out Bob, but I'm not here often.. and I'm going through somewhat old threads, sorry.

For the record, I have a Trifecta tune, and my base tune in the GMPP tune.  I drive daily on the GMPP tune, and use the Trifecta for autocross.  When autocrossing I have access to the No Lift Shift, which is only there due to the GMPP tune.  So... not everything gets removed.

Also, I've had zero issues with my GMPP tune, and it's not like I'm easy on the poor car.  I haul a fairly heavy 4'x8' trailer with the car from event to event, all while driving on the GMPP tune.  63,000+ miles on her so far...

Clearly Vince left the GMPP as the base tune. If he tailored the "power" tune to incorporate the no lift and 3 bar sensors, it is still his tune. He ships a two stage tune and I guess he kept the GMMP as base.